[_ Old Earth _] Why do people try to use human reasoning to explain creation

[Heidi]

In addition, evolutionists still cannot eplain how animals got here in the first place! Yet God's explanation in the bible contradicts nothing in reality today. Zero. Humans breed their own kind and animals breed their own kind. Men are closer to annihilating themselves today more than ever before in history. The more people there are, the more STD's, disease, starvation, wars, robbery, greed, and on and on. And the bible was written thousand of years ago! Again, the truth can only be found in reality, not in the imagination. The bible is backed up by reality. Evolution contradicts reality. Only reality is how one discerns truth from fiction. ;-)

 

[Barbarian]

In addition, evolutionists still cannot eplain how animals got here in the first place!

Sure they can. The evidence indicates they evolved from protcists.

Yet God's explanation in the bible contradicts nothing in reality today.

It's true. The problem is, you aren't willing to accept the way He did it.

 

[Heidi]

Oh, so you know how God created the world? And what support do you have that there is a God? Your imagination? Sorry, but you didn't create God. He created you. You think you can make up anything you want & that will be the truth. That's the sin of pride at its peak. But nothing you have said can be supported by reality, but instead, the imaginations of men. ;-)

 

[Barbarian]

Oh, so you know how God created the world?

Yep.

And what support do you have that there is a God?

Personal relationship with Him. Want to learn how that happens?

Sorry, but you didn't create God. He created you.

You think that's news to us?

You think you can make up anything you want & that will be the truth.

No. That's creationism. Would you like to learn how Christians know about Him?

 

[Heidi]

Oh, so you know how God created the world?

Yep.

[quote:8562c]And what support do you have that there is a God?

Personal relationship with Him. Want to learn how that happens?

Sorry, but you didn't create God. He created you.

You think that's news to us?

You think you can make up anything you want & that will be the truth.

No. That's creationism. Would you like to learn how Christians know about Him?[/quote:8562c]

All you have to do is read the last several chapters of the gospel of John to read what Jesus tells us about how to have a personal relationship with him, & then read the whole NT especially the book of Acts. 2 Corinthians 13:5, "Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you-unless of course, you fail the test?"

Until you receive the Holy Spirit inside of you which is the personhood of Christ, you can never know God. Jesus said; "Now eternal life is this; that you know the one true God and Jesus Christ whome he sent." Also, "On that day, you will realize that I am in my Father and you are in me and I am in you." Until you understand what he's talking about, then your belief in God will be nothing more than a guess. Just a vage mist that might be in the sky but you will know nothing about who he is, and what he wants for your life.

This explains your contradictions that you say you believe in God but do not believe that God created man the way the bible said he did. Until you know him personally through the Holy Spirit, than the god you believe in will come from your own imagination, rather than as an outside source who really exists. Receiving the Holy Spirit is proof positive that God exists because the Holy Spirit comes from outside of us and is the opposite of our human nature. So you have shown that you don't know God at all but think there might be something greater than yourself that exists, but don't know for sure. That is called an agnostic, not a Christian. Jesus said "He who is not with me is against me." You cannot be both. You either know God or you don't.

 

[Heidi]

Having a personal relationship with Christ can be explained through an analogy. If a friend comes & tells you that John Doe exists, but you haven't met John Doe, then you have to take your friend's word that he exists. Now you may have no reason to believe that your friend is lying, but your faith isn't in your knowledge of John Doe, but in your friend's credibility which will always be fallible because he is fallible. But only when you meet John Doe for yourself can you have a personal relationship with him and your belief that he exists comes from personal knowledge of him.

But if your friend keeps talking to you for years about John Doe but never introduces you to him then your belief that John Doe exists begins to fade. And that is what happens to many, many people who call themselves Christians for years then "walk away". Since they have never met Christ, then their faith that he exists begins to fade. But what they don't relaize is that they never knew him in the first place & their faith was in the word of someone else that he exists. That is not faith in God but in people instead. And that is why Jesus said; "Now eternal life is this; that you know the one true God and Jesus Christ whom he sent." Once you meet someone, you cannot then deny his existence which is why Jesus says about his true followers; "No one can snatch them out of my hand." That is true faith which can never go away because it is built on a solid rock rather than a shaky foundation.

 

[reznwerks]

friends

Having a personal relationship with Christ can be explained through an analogy. If a friend comes & tells you that John Doe exists, but you haven't met John Doe, then you have to take your friend's word that he exists.
However when repeated attempts to meet John Doe are unsuccessful and no one else has ever seen John Doe then it is reasonable to assume that John Doe doesn't exist. Children do this all the time with imaginary friends but usually outgrow it.


Now you may have no reason to believe that your friend is lying, but your faith isn't in your knowledge of John Doe, but in your friend's credibility which will always be fallible because he is fallible.
If my friend always spoke about this friend I would expect to meet that friend. As I said if I never saw the friend and no one else ever saw the friend I might suggest some therapy. As to credibility , how can you put your faith in credibility when you just issued a disclaimer that he is fallable? You are trying to cover all bases at one time. Sorry, no can do.


But only when you meet John Doe for yourself can you have a personal relationship with him and your belief that he exists comes from personal knowledge of him.
If no one else can witness your friend how can you introduce your friend to others? The claim that will be YOUR friend and have personal relationship with you is obviously false or this friend is diabolically clever. The reason being is that so many have claimed as you but so many have different interpretations and are often diametrically opposed of what he is. How can that be? You can't just summarily dismiss the likelyhood of the imagination and desire to experience this imaginary friend.After all children do all the time and their is no obstacle to adults experiencing this as well.

But if your friend keeps talking to you for years about John Doe but never introduces you to him then your belief that John Doe exists begins to fade.
No doubt with good reason. He has no body, cannot show himself, cannot make others see him, does not do magic tricks etc etc but you think that because you think he is real that others should also accept that reality? WHY? How can you confirm that the invisible friend is the same invisible friend you have?

And that is what happens to many, many people who call themselves Christians for years then "walk away".
It's called enlightenment. They have woken up from many years of induced slumber to the wonderful world of reality. They will not begin to question, and think for themselves .

Since they have never met Christ, then their faith that he exists begins to fade. But what they don't relaize is that they never knew him in the first place & their faith was in the word of someone else that he exists.
The imagination is a powerful tool.


quote]

 

[Heidi]

Re: friends

Having a personal relationship with Christ can be explained through an analogy. If a friend comes & tells you that John Doe exists, but you haven't met John Doe, then you have to take your friend's word that he exists.
However when repeated attempts to meet John Doe are unsuccessful and no one else has ever seen John Doe then it is reasonable to assume that John Doe doesn't exist. Children do this all the time with imaginary friends but usually outgrow it.


Now you may have no reason to believe that your friend is lying, but your faith isn't in your knowledge of John Doe, but in your friend's credibility which will always be fallible because he is fallible.
If my friend always spoke about this friend I would expect to meet that friend. As I said if I never saw the friend and no one else ever saw the friend I might suggest some therapy. As to credibility , how can you put your faith in credibility when you just issued a disclaimer that he is fallable? You are trying to cover all bases at one time. Sorry, no can do.


But only when you meet John Doe for yourself can you have a personal relationship with him and your belief that he exists comes from personal knowledge of him.
If no one else can witness your friend how can you introduce your friend to others? The claim that will be YOUR friend and have personal relationship with you is obviously false or this friend is diabolically clever. The reason being is that so many have claimed as you but so many have different interpretations and are often diametrically opposed of what he is. How can that be? You can't just summarily dismiss the likelyhood of the imagination and desire to experience this imaginary friend.After all children do all the time and their is no obstacle to adults experiencing this as well.

But if your friend keeps talking to you for years about John Doe but never introduces you to him then your belief that John Doe exists begins to fade.
No doubt with good reason. He has no body, cannot show himself, cannot make others see him, does not do magic tricks etc etc but you think that because you think he is real that others should also accept that reality? WHY? How can you confirm that the invisible friend is the same invisible friend you have?

And that is what happens to many, many people who call themselves Christians for years then "walk away".
It's called enlightenment. They have woken up from many years of induced slumber to the wonderful world of reality. They will not begin to question, and think for themselves .

Since they have never met Christ, then their faith that he exists begins to fade. But what they don't relaize is that they never knew him in the first place & their faith was in the word of someone else that he exists.
The imagination is a powerful tool.


quote]

Sorry, but millions of people have received the Holy Spirit which is why Christians above all other "religious" groups attempt to convert people. Other religions either do not have the faith that their God has the answers to life's problems or they don't care enough about the souls of others to spread the good news. It's one or the other. And since we christians have met christ through the Holy Spirit, we know he exists just as I know my husband exists. And I have an even closer relationship with Christ because he is inside of me, which no human being could do.

But Jesus said about the Holy Spirit, "The world cannot accept him because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him because he lives with you and will be in you." And reality has certainly prove his words true once again!

As far as attempts to meet him, Jesus tells us to keep asking just like he tells us that a judge, tired of hearing a woman badger him will give her her wish. All you have to do is pray for faith. Then wait. I waited 4 years since I first prayed for faith until I received the Holy Spirit.

"Enlightenment"? Believing the same way you did as an infant is enlightenment? Sorry, rezenwerks, being at the maturity level of a baby is not enlightnement.

Imaginary? Sorry, but Jesus, his disciples, and millions of others who have the same fruits of the Holy Spirit is hardly imaginary. What is imaginary, though, is the notion that Jesus did not live & die for your sins when his life & death can be documented 300 times more than any other figure in history! Even his enemies did not deny that he lived, died, and performed countless miracles. So your belief that he did not do these things is based on what besides your imagination? :o Yes, you are right. The imagination is a powerful tool!

You cannot see the wind, but do you deny it exists? We know the wind exists because of the affects it produces even though we can't see the wind in and of itself. it is the same way with God. We know he exists because of his creation around us.

 

[Barbarian]

This explains your contradictions that you say you believe in God but do not believe that God created man the way the bible said he did.

False witness is a sin, Heidi. I told you the difference between you and me is that I accept the way He did it.

Because you are only superficially a Christian, you rebel at the notion that He used nature to create life, as He says in Genesis. It doesn't suit you, so you make up your own way.

Not that it's going to send you to Hell; God does not care whether you approve of His creation or not. But your pride and "holier than thou" approach to apologetics will slowly move you apart from Him.

Before it's too late, do some prayer, and let Him decide how He will manage creation.

 

[reznwerks]

Re: friends

[
Imaginary? Sorry, but Jesus, his disciples, and millions of others who have the same fruits of the Holy Spirit is hardly imaginary. What is imaginary, though, is the notion that Jesus did not live & die for your sins when his life & death can be documented 300 times more than any other figure in history!
Haven't we gone over this before? You have not one shred of first hand evidence that Jesus ever lived as a man and even less evidence that what is attributed to him is true. Did you ever check the library for reference material like an ENCY. It uses the bible as the only reference to Jesus. If anything stronger existed don't you think it would have been used?

Even his enemies did not deny that he lived, died, and performed countless miracles.
His enemies wrote nothing down about the man. There is nothing in the records of Jesus' birth, his trial, crucifixion etc etc etc.

So your belief that he did not do these things is based on what besides your imagination? :o Yes, you are right. The imagination is a powerful tool!
Its your imagination that these things are true because no evidence supports your claims. It is hightly ILLOGICAL to believe in something because it can't be proved it didn't happen.

You cannot see the wind, but do you deny it exists?
I don't need to see the wind as I can see and feel its effects. The same cannot be said of your beliefs.

We know the wind exists because of the affects it produces even though we can't see the wind in and of itself. it is the same way with God. We know he exists because of his creation around us. No what you see around you is your surroundings. Where they came from is up for debate. First you have to prove a God exists. The wind is quite predictable and what it can do and not do is well known.

 

[Heidi]

This explains your contradictions that you say you believe in God but do not believe that God created man the way the bible said he did.

False witness is a sin, Heidi. I told you the difference between you and me is that I accept the way He did it.

Because you are only superficially a Christian, you rebel at the notion that He used nature to create life, as He says in Genesis. It doesn't suit you, so you make up your own way.

Not that it's going to send you to Hell; God does not care whether you approve of His creation or not. But your pride and "holier than thou" approach to apologetics will slowly move you apart from Him.

Before it's too late, do some prayer, and let Him decide how He will manage creation.

You are quite right, Barbarian. False witness is a sin. So where does the bible say man came from apes? :o

 

[peace4all]

This explains your contradictions that you say you believe in God but do not believe that God created man the way the bible said he did.

False witness is a sin, Heidi. I told you the difference between you and me is that I accept the way He did it.

Because you are only superficially a Christian, you rebel at the notion that He used nature to create life, as He says in Genesis. It doesn't suit you, so you make up your own way.

Not that it's going to send you to Hell; God does not care whether you approve of His creation or not. But your pride and "holier than thou" approach to apologetics will slowly move you apart from Him.

Before it's too late, do some prayer, and let Him decide how He will manage creation.

You are quite right, Barbarian. False witness is a sin. So where does the bible say man came from apes? :o

show me an atheist, or any other person that thinks that :-P


COMMON ANCESTOR, not apes, not chimps, not monkeys. COMMON ANCESTOR!

 

[Barbarian]

Heidi tries a little bit of false witness...

This explains your contradictions that you say you believe in God but do not believe that God created man the way the bible said he did.

Barbarian observes:
False witness is a sin, Heidi. I told you the difference between you and me is that I accept the way He did it.

Because you are only superficially a Christian, you rebel at the notion that He used nature to create life, as He says in Genesis. It doesn't suit you, so you make up your own way.

Not that it's going to send you to Hell; God does not care whether you approve of His creation or not. But your pride and "holier than thou" approach to apologetics will slowly move you apart from Him.

Before it's too late, do some prayer, and let Him decide how He will manage creation.

You are quite right, Barbarian. False witness is a sin.

I've already forgiven you. Try to do better.

So where does the bible say man came from apes?

It's in the same chapter where it says that atoms are made of electrons, neutrons and protons.

 

[Heidi]

Your last statement shows that you can lie without a conscience. Because of that, it shows that you have no problem embracing lies which throws your whole case out the window. Again, since evolutionists have to lie to make their point, then their point is not valid. I'm sorry you don't understand that simple concept. But because you cannot be honest in a conversation, then any further conversation with you is a waste of time.

 

[cubedbee]

Your last statement shows that you can lie without a conscience. Because of that, it shows that you have no problem embracing lies which throws your whole case out the window. Again, since evolutionists have to lie to make their point, then their point is not valid. I'm sorry you don't understand that simple concept. But because you cannot be honest in a conversation, then any further conversation with you is a waste of time.

: : : : :

Heidi, you have lied dozenss of times on this forum. You lie about other people, which is even worse that lying about facts, and you continue to lie even after people call you out on it. Talk about missing the log in your own eye. Barbarian wasn't even lying--he was sarcastically making a point. Evolution isn't explicitly mentioned in the Bible, but neither is any of our modern science. Not being mentioned in the Bible doesn't make something false.

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

What do penguins, the United States of America, electricity, calculus, the Pacific Ocean, AIDS, the planet Neptune and glaciers all have in common?

THey don't exist, because they are not mentioned in the bible! :roll:

 

[Heidi]

The bible wasn't concerned with glaciers or nepturne just like a book about Caesar wasn't concerned with the monks in England! But the bible does tell us how humans & animals were created which conforms perfectly to the way humans & animals have bred since the beginning of recorded history. Evolution does not.

 

[reznwerks]

evidence

The bible wasn't concerned with glaciers or nepturne just like a book about Caesar wasn't concerned with the monks in England! But the bible does tell us how humans & animals were created which conforms perfectly to the way humans & animals have bred since the beginning of recorded history. Evolution does not.

The evidence says otherwise.