Why do some people feel they have the right to undo Salvation?

[JLB]

There is a flip side to this. The Spirit is quenched when we try to save ourselves through our own self righteousness. Which is what is going on in this forum. Everyone here is giving it their best to live properly and I have seen 0, yes,0(zero) people on this forum that think Grace is a license to sin. But, I have seen the majority here think that their morality saves them.

I have seen absolutely no one say there is no consequence for their sin.......rewards and blessings and rank and reign is lost. This is no small matter. It is what we have in the eternal state.........forever lost! For eternity! I can't believe some believers have relegated these loss of eternal rewards to "losing a lollipop."

You are quenching the Spirit. No one here is preaching a license to sin, We have that already, it is called a freewill.

1 Thess 5:19~~New American Standard Bible
Do not quench the Spirit;

I have not seen anyone insinuate that they can save themselves by their own self-righteousness.

Please point me to the post number where someone has said this.

In my post's I show from the scriptures where Paul and Peter and Jesus teach us clearly about those who practice the works of the flesh, and will not inherit the kingdom.

This warning is to Christians, not to the world, as Paul says -

For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?
But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."


9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Just so it is clear that Paul is addressing Christians and not the world, he prefaced these words from Chapter 6, with these closing words from Chapter 5 - ...what have I to do with judging those also who are outside.

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people.
10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?
13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."
1 Corinthians 5:9-13

Paul teaches for Christians to "not to keep company with sexually immoral people".

Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters,...


Paul is speaking to Christians and warning them in his letters -

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


Not inheriting the kingdom = Cast into hell, prepared for the devil and his angels.


29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:29


JLB

 

[JLB]

I believe it is. It gets to the nuts and bolts..........end result. Cuts through all the "subtleties" of trying to make one believe that, " we really believe it is God that FIRST initiated salvation and we really believe it is Him that saved you, but ultimately, It is you that saves yourself by correcting your errors."

And if you don't........Off to the eternal lake of fire for our other Brothers and sisters in Christ.

The logical conclusion, after sifting through all the crap is............you fix your errors(works) or you will go to Hell.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors--not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:12-13

...but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes.

Not inherit the kingdom is plain and clear, as we should take heed to the words of Jesus Christ.

God loves us dearly, and sent His Son to suffer and die a brutal death, so we could live free from the bondage of sin.

The precious Holy Spirit of Grace is insulted when we make a mockery of the cross by teaching the idea of Grace as a license to sin, with no consequences.

Paul's words are crystal clear -

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Just so it is clear that Paul is addressing Christians and not the world, he prefaced these words from Chapter 6, with these closing words from Chapter 5 - ...what have I to do with judging those also who are outside.

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people.
10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?
13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."
1 Corinthians 5:9-13

Paul teaches for Christians to "not to keep company with sexually immoral people".

Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters,...


Paul is speaking to Christians and warning them in his letters -

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


Not inheriting the kingdom = Cast into hell, prepared for the devil and his angels.

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34

Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41


Those on His left hand, are His servants that are likened to goats, who did not inherit the kingdom.

Which is what He said in verse 30, in his private teaching to His disciples.

And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' Matthew 25:30
For those readers in this forum that are actually seeking the truth of God's Kingdom, these words are clear.
The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, To turn one away from the snares of death. Proverbs 14:27
JLB

This is what is called a gross misuse of Scripture. You've taken verses totally out of context, and have concocted a theory that isn't taught in Scripture.

Bottom line: eternal life is a gift of God. Rom 6:23 says so. And God's gifts are irrevocable. Rom 11:29 says so. These 2 verses totally refute your theory.

 

[FreeGrace]

I have not seen anyone insinuate that they can save themselves by their own self-righteousness.

Please read your own posts. They are full of verses that are used (abused) to promote turning away from sin to avoid hell and the lake of fire.

Please point me to the post number where someone has said this.

#119 is just one recent example.

In my post's I show from the scriptures where Paul and Peter and Jesus teach us clearly about those who practice the works of the flesh, and will not inherit the kingdom.

They are verses warning of loss of reward. You've twisted them to mean "go to hell" for sin.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I haven't been following this thread lately, but what gives some people the right to say I'm not saved if I'm non-OSAS? It happened again in this forum after this thread started.

 

[JLB]

Please read your own posts. They are full of verses that are used (abused) to promote turning away from sin to avoid hell and the lake of fire.


#119 is just one recent example.

Here is post 119 copied in its entirety.

There is no reference that people cab "save themselves" by there own righteousness.

There is only scripture, from Paul and Jesus that warns us to turn from practicing the works of the flesh, and clarifies the meaning of inheriting or not inheriting the kingdom.

For all to read -

Yes.

Not inherit the kingdom is plain and clear, as we should take heed to the words of Jesus Christ.

God loves us dearly, and sent His Son to suffer and die a brutal death, so we could live free from the bondage of sin.

The precious Holy Spirit of Grace is insulted when we make a mockery of the cross by teaching the idea of Grace as a license to sin, with no consequences.

Paul's words are crystal clear -

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Just so it is clear that Paul is addressing Christians and not the world, he prefaced these words from Chapter 6, with these closing words from Chapter 5 - ...what have I to do with judging those also who are outside.

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people.
10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?
13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."
1 Corinthians 5:9-13

Paul teaches for Christians to "not to keep company with sexually immoral people".

Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters,...


Paul is speaking to Christians and warning them in his letters -

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


Not inheriting the kingdom = Cast into hell, prepared for the devil and his angels.

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34

Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41


Those on His left hand, are His servants that are likened to goats, who did not inherit the kingdom.

Which is what He said in verse 30, in his private teaching to His disciples.

And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' Matthew 25:30


For those readers in this forum that are actually seeking the truth of God's Kingdom, these words are clear.



The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, To turn one away from the snares of death. Proverbs 14:27



JLB

JLB

 

[JLB]

This is what is called a gross misuse of Scripture. You've taken verses totally out of context, and have concocted a theory that isn't taught in Scripture.

Bottom line: eternal life is a gift of God. Rom 6:23 says so. And God's gifts are irrevocable. Rom 11:29 says so. These 2 verses totally refute your theory.

Nothing out of context, just the scriptures that warn us from walking in the flesh.


The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, that turns one away from the snares of death. Proverbs 14:27


JLB

 

[JLB]

Please read your own posts. They are full of verses that are used (abused) to promote turning away from sin to avoid hell and the lake of fire.

They are verses warning of loss of reward. You've twisted them to mean "go to hell" for sin.

Not inheriting the kingdom of God, = banished to the fires of hell with the devil and his angels.
Matthew 25:41

JLB

 

[Mike S]

Simply untrue. Please support your claim with clear Scripture.

Regretting that He made man, and wiping them from the face of the earth sounds to me like God changing His creation.

Genesis 6:5-7
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

That was the drift I caught from your posts. If your posts were a bit more clear, I wouldn't catch a wrong drift.

Or, if you weren't so quick to act as a condemning Pharisee.
You're welcome to your own interpretation of the meaning of scripture, but don't pretend it's anything other than just that, interpretation.

 

[FreeGrace]

I haven't been following this thread lately, but what gives some people the right to say I'm not saved if I'm non-OSAS? It happened again in this forum after this thread started.

Though I haven't made such a charge, I suppose it would be because of your view that if one loses faith, they lose Jesus, essentially. In spite of His guarantee that no person (no one) can snatch the one who has believed from the Father's hand. Those who deny OSAS are essentially claiming that they have the power to snatch themselves out of the Father's hand. Without any evidence from Scripture at all.

Once a person has believed in Christ for eternal life, they are given that free gift. And the word "eternal" means exactly that; eternal. It doesn't go away.

If that gift could be revoked, returned, forfeited, etc, etc, etc, then it shouldn't be called "eternal". But it's called that for a good reason. It is eternal. Regardless of what some or many think.

 

[FreeGrace]

Here is post 119 copied in its entirety.

There is no reference that people cab "save themselves" by there own righteousness.

Everything in that post highly indicates that. Your posts are all about lifestyle; sinning causes one to go to hell.

There is only scripture, from Paul and Jesus that warns us to turn from practicing the works of the flesh, and clarifies the meaning of inheriting or not inheriting the kingdom.

And all the warning passages that are quoted aren't about salvation but rewards. And no one has refuted that with any exegesis.

 

[FreeGrace]

Nothing out of context, just the scriptures that warn us from walking in the flesh.

Of course they warn of that. Believers are supposed to live Christ-like lives. But there is NOTHING in any of the verses your posts contain are about loss of salvation.

The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, that turns one away from the snares of death. Proverbs 14:27
JLB

Why should anyone believe that "snares of death" refers to the lake of fire? This verse is about a warning about God's divine discipline that included physical death, which is exactly what 1 Cor 11:30 warns of: "For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep."

The word "sleep" is often used for physical death. John 11 is very clear about that.

 

[FreeGrace]

Regretting that He made man, and wiping them from the face of the earth sounds to me like God changing His creation.

Consider this, please. If God actually regrets something, would indicate that He isn't really omniscient? Is that your view of God? To regret means that one didn't "see that coming" and shouldn't have done what they did.

If that is your view of God, I have no interest in further discussion. My view of God is that He is fully and completely omniscient. That means He has always known everything that will occur.

Ascribing to God human emotions, etc, is called an anthropopathism, and is used to explain God's policies in ways man can relate to. But make no mistake, God cannot regret anything. If He does, He isn't God, because He wouldn't be omniscient.

 

[Mike S]

Consider this, please. If God actually regrets something, would indicate that He isn't really omniscient? Is that your view of God? To regret means that one didn't "see that coming" and shouldn't have done what they did..

God is omniscient, and omnipotent, He is sovereign. I don't see how that means God can't change His creation, I think it means He has no limits.


Genesis 6:5-7
6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

 

[Obadiah]

Thread closed... At least for now.

I'm not taking a stand here on whether you can lose your salvation or not, but there are enough rule and guideline violations in this thread for some of you to lose your privileges to post here for a long time. This thread is closed while I decide whether to issue points and suspensions then re-open it, or if I should just leave it closed. When I decide I'll let y'all know.