Why do you believe?

[Sir Pwn4lot]

Simple question:

Why do you believe?

I'm not asking what you believe, there's a difference lol.

Thanks.

 

[follower of Christ]

I believe because I chose to when the Father drew me.
He foreknew this fact and because of that has predestined me to become conformed to the Image of His son.

 

[elijah23]

I think I always knew the Lord existed. There were a couple of times early in my life where I was in great emotional pain and cried out to the Lord to help. When I was twenty years old, though, the Lord made his presence know in my life in a big way.

 

[Sir Pwn4lot]

I believe because I chose to when the Father drew me.
He foreknew this fact and because of that has predestined me to become conformed to the Image of His son.

I'm asking why you believe and you're saying "Because I chose to believe"

I think I always knew the Lord existed. There were a couple of times early in my life where I was in great emotional pain and cried out to the Lord to help. When I was twenty years old, though, the Lord made his presence know in my life in a big way.

What do you mean that you always knew? How do you know lol. There must be some reason for your belief, was it just a fuzzy feeling when someone mentioned Jesus lol?


Surprisingly (really?) by far the most common answer I get is "I believe because I believe", no matter who I talk to.

 

[ChevyRodeo]

1. The Bible validates itself proving its authenticity (accurately predicting the future).
2. I have seen people over come with the Holy Spirit.
3. I have been physically knock to the ground by the HS.
4. I have felt the protection around me during a dangerous time in my life.
5. I have seen "things".
6. I have had prayer answered.



Religion is a color. A color you have never seen before. I can see it and you can't (non believers) I can never really describe it to you, You have to see this "new color" for yourself in order to make sense of it. To know its real.

 

[Sir Pwn4lot]

1. The Bible validates itself proving its authenticity (accurately predicting the future).

Such as?

2. I have seen people over come with the Holy Spirit.

Just like they have in Islam or Hinduism?

3. I have been physically knock to the ground by the HS.

How do you know it was the Holy Spirit?

4. I have felt the protection around me during a dangerous time in my life.

Such as? Elaborate.

5. I have seen "things".

Such as?

6. I have had prayer answered.

I did a very interesting experiment with my then Christian (He saw the light and deconverted :p) friend, we both prayed for things (Such as the healing of loved ones). The difference was that I prayed to a rock and he prayed to Jesus. We had the same rate of success :/

Every religion on earth has the same rate of prayer answers. Things like winning the lottery or your sick grandpa getting better when he has a 99.9% chance of dying aren't miracles, because there is a 1:1 chance that someone will get the prize when the chance is greater than impossible. in the lottery there is a 100% chance someone will win every time, with your grandpa there is also a 100% chance that someone will get better, the fact that unlikely things happen isn't proof of anything, it just means that you're more observant when you pray lol.



Religion is a color. A color you have never seen before. I can see it and you can't (non believers) I can never really describe it to you, You have to see this "new color" for yourself in order to make sense of it. To know its real.[/quote]

I was a quasi-Fundie Christian for 15 years, of course I've seen it lol. As for colors, they're just the blocking out of certain spectra in the spectrum of light lol, if you block out some light you get red, green, yellow, etc. The 'color' we see is just the reading our brain gives us of which spectra are blocked out.

What I got from this is that you have to believe in order to believe, if that's the case then God has created me just so he can chuck me into Hell, because there's no way I can honestly take that pill, and I presume that God would know if I was just saying I believed.

Therefore there is no way at all that I can possibly avoid his torture. (I'm making another topic on this so don't debate me here about that lol)

 

[ChevyRodeo]

Such as?

Just like they have in Islam or Hinduism?

How do you know it was the Holy Spirit?

Such as? Elaborate.

Such as?

1. I don't feel like looking something up that you could do yourself.
2. No.
3. I have no reason to think it was anything else given the circumstance.
4. I feeling in my heart, proof for me, not for anyone else.
5. to much to type out.

I prayed to a rock and he prayed to Jesus. We had the same rate of success :/

My psychology professor gave us a case study to review over health. Two groups of people where randomly picked. one group was prayed for for health, the other was not. The people didn't know what group they where in to (eliminate mind over matter) after the set amount of time the health of everyone was reviewed and the people being prayed for, where on average more healthy. Our professor had no explanation for the case study since the experiment had been repeated with same results.

I basically feel that if you have not read the whole Bible, you have no right to criticize the Christian Religion.

Its like asking how to program a VCR without bothering to look at the Manuel and then claiming the VCR is no good since you cant get it to work through your own understanding.

 

[Sir Pwn4lot]

1. I don't feel like looking something up that you could do yourself.

Very well, I'll just ignore this unsubstantiated claim then.

2. No.

How is it different? They have the same experiences that you do, just with Krishnah and Mohammad lol

3. I have no reason to think it was anything else given the circumstance.

You have no reason to think it was the HS either. The exclusion of some other options you can think of doesn't automatically mean your superstitious option is correct.

4. I feeling in my heart, proof for me, not for anyone else.

Maybe you should see a doctor.

5. to much to type out.

See response to 1.

My psychology professor gave us a case study to review over health. Two groups of people where randomly picked. one group was prayed for for health, the other was not. The people didn't know what group they where in to (eliminate mind over matter) after the set amount of time the health of everyone was reviewed and the people being prayed for, where on average more healthy. Our professor had no explanation for the case study since the experiment had been repeated with same results.

How many times did you reproduce this experiment? Did you video tape it or anything? How do you know it was the Christian God who answered them, it could have been Krishnah for all you know.

This is simply amazing, you realize that if you got your results together and published them in a peer reviewed paper you would revolutionize science and gain hundreds of prizes and millions of dollars?

I basically feel that if you have not read the whole Bible, you have no right to criticize the Christian Religion.

I have read the Bible numerous times from start to finish (I was a Christian for 15 years). The difference between me and you is that I didn't ignore all the inaccuracies and just focus on the happy things God did, or the correct prophecies (Even if they were amazingly vague and anyone could instantly validate them). Even Hitler looks like a Saint if you ignore all the atrocities he committed and just focus on that time he saved [insert person here]'s life.

Its like asking how to program a VCR without bothering to look at the Manuel and then claiming the VCR is no good since you cant get it to work through your own understanding.

I've read your manual, I've gotten in the company's repairmen, I've taken it apart meticulously and have found that it's just an empty box that has no function other than making you happy to have a good looking VCR box on your mantelpiece.

 

[follower of Christ]

I'm asking why you believe and you're saying "Because I chose to believe"

You asked a question, I gave a response.
Your OP didnt say anything about my having to give a response that you would like or agree with.

Surprisingly (really?) by far the most common answer I get is "I believe because I believe", no matter who I talk to.

And do you think there might be a reason for so much agreement on that ?

 

[jasoncran]

i believe because without jesus i would have either be in jail or dying from aids, as i was into the alternative lifestyle.
i used to be a con artist , and did write many a bad checks.

 

[elijah23]

What do you mean that you always knew? How do you know lol. There must be some reason for your belief, was it just a fuzzy feeling when someone mentioned Jesus lol?

When I was about five years old, something happened that was so emotionally painful to me that I cried out to the Lord for help. How did I know to do that?

 

[JoJo]

...

 

[JoJo]

Let me rephrase that: Are you looking for pearls of wisdom or are you looking to mock our beliefs?

Judging by your posts so far, I'm thinking you started this thread not to learn about our beliefs but to dispute or belittle them.

I did a very interesting experiment with my then Christian (He saw the light and deconverted :p)

Perhaps you might take an interest in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=41577

 

[JoJo]

Actually I'll just re-post the OP here:

I've been active in online Christian communities off and on for the last six years. And it has been my experience that atheists generally have one of two motives for joining Christian online communities:

1. They truly desire to learn more about Christianity and seek Christian's advice and opinions. They want to get to know Christians and become familiar with their ways and look for reasons to believe in Jesus. They want to challenge their own unbelief.

2. They want to challenge Christians' beliefs and try to convince Christians that they are wrong. They have an agenda: gain de-converts.

This message is to those atheists who come to this forum and fall under category 2:

If you want to get believers to be unbelievers, you might sometimes get what you want, but only from those who aren't grounded securely in their faith. The die-hard Christians -- those you want to get at most -- aren't going to let go of their beliefs based on your worldly arguments. It's pointless to try and convince a solid believer that they are wrong. They've been through too many experiences with God to even think about letting that go. They won't do it. You're wasting your time.

That's all. Thanks.

 

[ronniechoate34]

Simple question:

Why do you believe?

I'm not asking what you believe, there's a difference lol.

Thanks.

I believe because of God's grace.

 

[ronniechoate34]

What do you mean that you always knew? How do you know lol. There must be some reason for your belief, was it just a fuzzy feeling when someone mentioned Jesus lol?

When I was about five years old, something happened that was so emotionally painful to me that I cried out to the Lord for help. How did I know to do that?

Because the Spirit moved you. That's why you did it.


I can certainly relate to this.

 

[ChevyRodeo]

I'll just ignore this unsubstantiated claim then.

you said you read the whole Bible. Surely you know what the word says. Reading the bible as a child is a lot different then reading the Bible as an adult.

We all believe what we believe because we choose. You choose to criticize which is good, it will strengthen you and your beliefs, but at the same time, you must also remain teachable. You must think in unconventional ways.

I hope you spend more time here and the scales are lifted from your eyes. Remember, you will see and understand what you want to see and understand. If you seek out pessimism, you will always find it.

 

[Sir Pwn4lot]

I'll just ignore this unsubstantiated claim then.

you said you read the whole Bible. Surely you know what the word says. Reading the bible as a child is a lot different then reading the Bible as an adult.

I read the Bible as I would any other religious or historical document.

We all believe what we believe because we choose.

That's not a reason, it's the belief itself. "I choose to believe in God because I choose" :gah

You choose to criticize which is good, it will strengthen you and your beliefs, but at the same time, you must also remain teachable. You must think in unconventional ways.

Explain this further please.

I hope you spend more time here and the scales are lifted from your eyes. Remember, you will see and understand what you want to see and understand. If you seek out pessimism, you will always find it.

I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist. If you give me some evidence then I'm fine with believing in your God, I'd be the first to bow down lol.

As far as I see evidence is the only way of obtaining knowledge, any other method ends up in arbitrary concluding that every claim is equally as justified.