Growth Why does God let bad things happen to good people?

[Edward]

Stovebolts,
In keeping with Why Does God Let Bad Things Happen To Good People, I think we can get into a little heavier stuff here.
I read a book with that title many years ago. It was written by a Rabbi. I was still searching for the answer. Guess what? He didn't really have one either - after writing all those pages.
When I first met Jesus I was about 28 - many years ago. It was great and I was so happy. I had found all the answers! God created the good and satan created the evil. The bad in me, in others, in nature. All bad came from him. So I couldn't understand when a priest would say (I was raised a Catholic) that we don't know why the child is sick or why the child died. And I'd think, wow, I know why - satan did it.

About 10 years after this, I realized a big flaw in my thinking. I still believed satan caused all the bad, but why did God allow it? Oh boy. Back to the drawing board. So that's why I kid around and say that every 10 years I reopen the case. But there's no use reopening it. No answer will be found. Can it be that there are two gods? One good and one bad? Is this heretical?

So we have to deal with God's Providence. We won't ever understand it. It just has to be accepted. We know for sure that Jesus doesn't want us to be unhappy. That's all we could know. It's all we're allowed and it's what we have to hang onto. The reasons why bad things happen will not be known to us on this earth. God h as a big plan and we're a part of it. Suffering has to be a part of it? I guess so. Get your strength when things are good so you won't be crushed forever when they get bad. And we will be crushed, but not forever though the feelings linger.
To Whom Shall We Go Lord? Only You Have The Words Of Life. John 6:68

This I know for sure. There are two powers at play. I want to be on the side of the good power.Wondering

Amen, Brother. Get your strength (in the Lord) when things are good, so that you won't be crushed when things get bad...if we can then praise and glorify God during the bad times and be mature about it, it will be pleasing to God.

There's good days and bad days. The Lord may be chastising us (those who He loves), testing us, or it could be an attack from the enemy. No matter which, there's good reason to be praising the Lord.

The Lord does not like murmuring. He made the Israelites wander the desert for 40 years because they were murmuring. But to be loved enough to be chastised (trained!) by the Lord is praiseworthy indeed! If we are worthy enough that our Lord would test us...His glory be magnified, thank you Lord!

(Still with me?!)
Even if the enemy is attacking, He knows we would turn to Him...so praise the Lord again! So it's like a chess game I guess. In a tight spot? Make a move towards the Lord and praise His mighty name. These things shall pass, but how did we handle it? Mature? With peace in our spirit, for we know He will not put on us more than we can bear? Or like a spoiled brat, whining & murmuring all the way? Have faith and trust the Lord. :yes

Life is 10% what it throws at you, and 90% how you react to it.
1 Peter 4:12-13
Colossians 1:24
Luke 6:23
Habakkuk 3:17-18
Romans 12:12
Romans 5:3

 

[brother Paul]

God is faithful to His word. He gave MANKIND dominion over the things on the earth...He made us with free moral choice (like some orders of angels...hence the rebellion)....He cannot be true to His sure word of promise and trustworthy and simply intervene to make only good things happen....but He did plan before the foundation of the world(having foreknown) the solution to man's passing the gauntlet of authority over to the Serpent and his minions and that solution had to be fulfilled by a human...and that human was the one who would fulfill Genesis 3:15....humans had dominion a human had to win it back (thus words like Redemption, Ransom, Propitiation, etc.,)

 

[GodsGrace]

Right. And the savior also had to be God because in the O.T. God repeated many times that He himself would save his people, like in Ezekiel and Jeremiah. He had to be both man and God.

W

 

[By Grace]

I'm unfamiliar with Tozier...

do a search on Amazon or Christian book distributes for books by A. W. Tozier. Find a cheap one, read it, and you will be a fan of his.

Before we were born in the flesh, we must have existed as a Spirit. Otherwise, how could Jesus love us already, if we were non-existent?

That is exactly what the Mormons teach. Sure, if you look at Ephesians 1:4, it is "logical" to assume that since Christians were "elect before the foundation of the world" them we must have been in a pre-existant state. But because that is not taught anywhere in Scripture, nor hinted at in any place in the Bible, it cannot mean what out logic leads us to believe. Something else MUST be the case.

Without going into a tome, and writing all about it, I assume that that this is speaking about the foreknowledge of God, and that He knows who will be born tomorrow, a year from tomorrow, and 100 years after tomorrow. That is the only way that I can grasp my puny head around it without delving into metaphysics and new age stuff.

We may have (highly probable in fact) walked & talked with Jesus before the foundation of the world.

That is not substantiated in Scripture, so it is merely non-biblical speculation.

In genesis,...and man became a living soul...doesn't imply that we had no existence before then, only that we became a living soul then.

Not exactly. the Hebrew phrase "Nefesh hayah" means "a soul came into being", and that is the DIRECT RESULT of Holy Spirit breathing into the lungs of Adam, and giving him life.

We could have been pure spirit-being beforehand. Someday we may find out that we stood with Jesus and perhaps discussed our (upcoming) life as a man on earth. Perhaps we were allowed to offer our input as to the who/what/where/when/whys of our station in life on earth? Wouldn't that be cool, Brother?
It's a little weird, but when I think about this, I can see me standing with Jesus and doing this...!

Sorry, but there is no basis in the Bible for this thing happening. Yeah, you have a vivid imagination, but it is not bound by Scripture. Therefore, you miss the point.

As far as, being seated in heavenly places even now...that's easy, all through scripture we see examples of spirits merging together (the legion of spirits in the lunatic that were cast into the herd of swine), Christians become one with Christ, with Christ in us, and us in Christ, and Christians being in more than one place at a time (John on Patmos) and
(Elisha spying on the King in his bed-chamber in 2nd Kings 6:12).

"Spirits merging together"??? Have you been watching too many episodes of Star Trek where Spock does a "mind meld"? I am a trekkie, so I have to be snarky about that!
What you seem to be doing here is not practical, and not Scriptural, either.

You are conflating terms of a spiritual nature, "being one with Christ... seated..." (etc) and making them physical. That we do have Christ in us, and that is the hope of glory (Galatians 2:20) is true, but we are not in our glorified bodies. Elijah had a similar instance as you describe, and during that time, his body was changed. (Read the accounts, and you will see that he was indeed transformed) He was also able to return to his own body a d write of the secret things that were going on in the deepest recesses of the Temple, things that were supposed to be secret, but God revealed them to him, and he saw people doing explicit sinful acts.

No, I am not "going ballistic" on what you posted. Instead, I am attempting to give Scripture-centered reasons why some of the things you posted do not make sense at all.

 

[Edward]

do a search on Amazon or Christian book distributes for books by A. W. Tozier. Find a cheap one, read it, and you will be a fan of his.


That is exactly what the Mormons teach. Sure, if you look at Ephesians 1:4, it is "logical" to assume that since Christians were "elect before the foundation of the world" them we must have been in a pre-existant state. But because that is not taught anywhere in Scripture, nor hinted at in any place in the Bible, it cannot mean what out logic leads us to believe. Something else MUST be the case.

So what else is it? Are you thinking that, Ephesians 1:4 is some sort of parable or euphemism or something? What else could it mean besides what it says?
It seems clear that we were alive before the creation (foundation and

Without going into a tome, and writing all about it, I assume that that this is speaking about the foreknowledge of God, and that He knows who will be born tomorrow, a year from tomorrow, and 100 years after tomorrow. That is the only way that I can grasp my puny head around it without delving into metaphysics and new age stuff.


That is not substantiated in Scripture, so it is merely non-biblical speculation.

Walking & talking with Jesus before the foundation of the world speculation? Yes it is, yes it is. But if Jesus chose us before the foundation of the world, then the odds are good that we were conscious and had personality at that point...something to choose, lol


Not exactly. the Hebrew phrase "Nefesh hayah" means "a soul came into being", and that is the DIRECT RESULT of Holy Spirit breathing into the lungs of Adam, and giving him life.

Our spirit must have received the soul at this time if we were around before then...

Sorry, but there is no basis in the Bible for this thing happening. Yeah, you have a vivid imagination, but it is not bound by Scripture. Therefore, you miss the point.
I never said it was in scripture that I or we walked with or talked with Jesus before the earth, I said wouldn't it be cool if we did. There is a scripture...Jeremiah 1:5 that says before we were in the womb, He knew us...


"Spirits merging together"??? Have you been watching too many episodes of Star Trek where Spock does a "mind meld"? I am a trekkie, so I have to be snarky about that!
What you seem to be doing here is not practical, and not Scriptural, either.
Umm, since when can't spirits merge? Does Christ live in you or not? (2 Corinthians 13:5/Ephesians 3:16-17)
Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit?
The Spirit of God comes and dwells within us, literally.

Apparently, evil spirits can too. There's a story in scripture where (a legion) of spirits was in a man. We are legion, for we are many...Jesus cast them into a herd of swine...so, yeah...spirits can merge.



You are conflating terms of a spiritual nature, "being one with Christ... seated..." (etc) and making them physical. That we do have Christ in us, and that is the hope of glory (Galatians 2:20) is true, but we are not in our glorified bodies. Elijah had a similar instance as you describe, and during that time, his body was changed. (Read the accounts, and you will see that he was indeed transformed) He was also able to return to his own body a d write of the secret things that were going on in the deepest recesses of the Temple, things that were supposed to be secret, but God revealed them to him, and he saw people doing explicit sinful acts.

No, I am not "going ballistic" on what you posted. Instead, I am attempting to give Scripture-centered reasons why some of the things you posted do not make sense at all.[/QUOTE]

Then how did Jesus know us before the womb and before the foundation of the world?

 

[GodsGrace]

I'd just like to say that since I've been here on this forum I've been a little confounded by how posters come up with different concepts.

What about exegesis? We can't take one, or even a few, verses and make a doctrine out of them. The bible is a complete book. It's a complete thought. That verse we're reading has to be in line with the complete thought - otherwise we could come up with any theory we want to and prove it with those few verses!

Jeremiah 1:5 and Psalm 139:16 say that God knew a prophet before he was born and in Psalms that God knew the person before he was born. Does this mean we were alive before we were born? Where does Paul or Jesus or any writer ever teach this? It merely means that God knows everything before it happens. He knew each one of us would be born. He knew who would be written in the Book of Life and who wouldn't.

If we don't stay on a narrow and straight path, we could really get lost theologically. A particular church, don't know if I'm allowed to mention it, believes in the doctrine of purgatory. Do you believe purgatory exists? Why not? It could be proven scripturally by them. Maybe because it doesn't jive with anything else we know IN GENERAL from reading the O.T. and the N.T.? Verses can't be taken out of context and original intent.

Yeah. Sometimes I wish Jesus had been more detail oriented, more precise and had left less wiggle room.
Paul was pretty clear in Romans. Maybe we should just take everything at face value and not add or speculate from what he says.

Wondering

 

[WIP]

?

Who are we to define who/what is "good people?"

So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One,that is, God. Mark 10:18 NKJV
So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One,that is, God. Luke 18:19 NKJV

My apologies if this has already been mentioned as I have not read the entire thread.

 

[Edward]

I'd just like to say that since I've been here on this forum I've been a little confounded by how posters come up with different concepts.

What about exegesis? We can't take one, or even a few, verses and make a doctrine out of them. The bible is a complete book. It's a complete thought. That verse we're reading has to be in line with the complete thought - otherwise we could come up with any theory we want to and prove it with those few verses!

Jeremiah 1:5 and Psalm 139:16 say that God knew a prophet before he was born and in Psalms that God knew the person before he was born. Does this mean we were alive before we were born? Where does Paul or Jesus or any writer ever teach this? It merely means that God knows everything before it happens. He knew each one of us would be born. He knew who would be written in the Book of Life and who wouldn't.

If we don't stay on a narrow and straight path, we could really get lost theologically. A particular church, don't know if I'm allowed to mention it, believes in the doctrine of purgatory. Do you believe purgatory exists? Why not? It could be proven scripturally by them. Maybe because it doesn't jive with anything else we know IN GENERAL from reading the O.T. and the N.T.? Verses can't be taken out of context and original intent.

Yeah. Sometimes I wish Jesus had been more detail oriented, more precise and had left less wiggle room.
Paul was pretty clear in Romans. Maybe we should just take everything at face value and not add or speculate from what he says.

Wondering

Tough crowd here tonight, lol. I wasn't building a theology or doctrine, just what-ifing a little bit.. it was pretty light hearted, but...Tough crowd, whoa.

 

[GodsGrace]

Tough crowd here tonight, lol. I wasn't building a theology or doctrine, just what-ifing a little bit.. it was pretty light hearted, but...Tough crowd, whoa.

Edward,

Sorry. I'm feeling a little overwhelmed with all these different ideas. Not used to it.
I didn't know they existed!

Will adjust... come out from behind that couch!!



Wondering

 

[iLOVE]

Everything that happens to a Believer is caused or allowed by God. It has purpose. God's timing is just as important as His will. I never would want to ever go through what I went through in life again. Bad things due happen to righteous people. We must be tried and tested to be refined. But this has made me who I am. For the Holy Spirit to make something out of you we must be stripped. We learn nothing in victory, we learn in defeat.

Psalms 105:19 NLT says, "Until the time came to fulfill his dreams, the LORD tested Joseph's character."

The name Joseph in the Hebrew means Jehovah will add. The Egyptian King changed Joseph name to Zaphenath-paneah. Which means life more abundantly. As I stated God has purpose and timing. When you add those two names together it reads, Jehovah will add life more abundantly. And we no Joseph went from the jailhouse to the penthouse. Why? Because the Lord with Joseph. And not only is He with us Believers, He lives inside of us.

 

[iLOVE]

Beware of the spirit of discouragement. Satan always bring people into your life to keep you from your destiny.

 

[GodsGrace]

Everything that happens to a Believer is caused or allowed by God. It has purpose. God's timing is just as important as His will. I never would want to ever go through what I went through in life again. Bad things due happen to righteous people. We must be tried and tested to be refined. But this has made me who I am. For the Holy Spirit to make something out of you we must be stripped. We learn nothing in victory, we learn in defeat.

Psalms 105:19 NLT says, "Until the time came to fulfill his dreams, the LORD tested Joseph's character."

The name Joseph in the Hebrew means Jehovah will add. The Egyptian King changed Joseph name to Zaphenath-paneah. Which means life more abundantly. As I stated God has purpose and timing. When you add those two names together it reads, Jehovah will add life more abundantly. And we no Joseph went from the jailhouse to the penthouse. Why? Because the Lord with Joseph. And not only is He with us Believers, He lives inside of us.

iLOVE
Thanks for what you wrote on the name Joseph. I never put the two things together - it's great!
It's always been incredible to me how the bible is one book broken up into little pieces and each piece has the same basic ideas in it - just one continuous flow of one concept. God's relationship to man and His effect on us.

John 10:10
Jesus says He has come to bring us life, and a life more abundant.
He takes us from the jailhouse to the penthouse, like He did for Joseph, as you say above.

Wondering

 

[By Grace]

By Grace
That is exactly what the Mormons teach. Sure, if you look at Ephesians 1:4, it is "logical" to assume that since Christians were "elect before the foundation of the world" them we must have been in a pre-existant state. But because that is not taught anywhere in Scripture, nor hinted at in any place in the Bible, it cannot mean what out logic leads us to believe. Something else MUST be the case.

So what else is it? Are you thinking that, Ephesians 1:4 is some sort of parable or euphemism or something? What else could it mean besides what it says?
It seems clear that we were alive before the creation (foundation and

B]Ephesians 1: 4 [/B]According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

If you quote Scripture, I do request that you quote it accurately, as I did above. You will see that the word "alive" is not in that verse

That is not substantiated in Scripture, so it is merely non-biblical speculation.

Walking & talking with Jesus before the foundation of the world speculation? Yes it is, yes it is. But if Jesus chose us before the foundation of the world, then the odds are good that we were conscious and had personality at that point...something to choose, lol

Not exactly. the Hebrew phrase "Nefesh hayah" means "a soul came into being", and that is the DIRECT RESULT of Holy Spirit breathing into the lungs of Adam, and giving him life.

Our spirit must have received the soul at this time if we were around before then...

There is nothing in Scripture to back up your assertion

I never said it was in scripture that I or we walked with or talked with Jesus before the earth, I said wouldn't it be cool if we did. There is a scripture...Jeremiah 1:5 that says before we were in the womb, He knew us...

Jeremiah 1: 5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

That is a verse FIRST speaking of one person, the prophet Jeremiah before anyone goes further with that, they must look at the entire context of a verse.

Again, as in the Ephesians 1 passage, you are adding to the verse words that are not in it, which I placed in bold dark blue.
What you seem to be doing here is not practical, and not Scriptural, either.

Umm, since when can't spirits merge? Does Christ live in you or not? (2 Corinthians 13:5/Ephesians 3:16-17)
Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit?
The Spirit of God comes and dwells within us, literally.

Apparently, evil spirits can too. There's a story in scripture where (a legion) of spirits was in a man. We are legion, for we are many...Jesus cast them into a herd of swine...so, yeah...spirits can merge.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?


Ephesians 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man



There is nothing in these verses, taken in their context that can support what you are saying

I am attempting to give Scripture-centered reasons why some of the things you posted do not make sense at all.

Then how did Jesus know us before the womb and before the foundation of the world?

The Bible says it.
The Bible does not explain how.
For sure, the Bible does not support any pre-existant states for humans.
Curious. do you have a LDS background? Are you now LDS?

 

[Edward]

Edward,

Sorry. I'm feeling a little overwhelmed with all these different ideas. Not used to it.
I didn't know they existed!

Will adjust... come out from behind that couch!!

Wondering

That's ok Brother. I imagine it did sound a little out there. I do like wondering what it's like where He is though. We know it's real but not a lot of talking is being done about it (the spiritual realm).

Jesus said, He goes to prepare a place for us (in a place where there is many mansions...)
They might be working on your (my) mansion, building it, right now as we speak...!! What a wonderful thought to have. It is said, that it'll be nicer than we can comprehend. I look forward to that, because I can comprehend & visualize a lot lol!

I wonder about my seating, at the marriage supper of the Lamb (Rev 19:6). If I am invited. Ahhh it's going to be a wonderful event!! I hope He has a big table...oh, to be seated at the same table as Christ! That's what scripture says.

Yep, just tossing around some ideas I have. Hope I don't make anyone mad, lol.

 

[Edward]

B]Ephesians 1: 4 [/B]According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

If you quote Scripture, I do request that you quote it accurately, as I did above. You will see that the word "alive" is not in that verse






Not exactly. the Hebrew phrase "Nefesh hayah" means "a soul came into being", and that is the DIRECT RESULT of Holy Spirit breathing into the lungs of Adam, and giving him life.


There is nothing in Scripture to back up your assertion



Jeremiah 1: 5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

That is a verse FIRST speaking of one person, the prophet Jeremiah before anyone goes further with that, they must look at the entire context of a verse.

Again, as in the Ephesians 1 passage, you are adding to the verse words that are not in it, which I placed in bold dark blue.
What you seem to be doing here is not practical, and not Scriptural, either.




2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?


Ephesians 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man



There is nothing in these verses, taken in their context that can support what you are saying

I am attempting to give Scripture-centered reasons why some of the things you posted do not make sense at all.


The Bible says it.
The Bible does not explain how.
For sure, the Bible does not support any pre-existant states for humans.
Curious. do you have a LDS background? Are you now LDS?

No, I'm not LDS. So, Jesus knew us before the foundation of the world, but we weren't alive...cuz scripture don't say so. Uh, ok I guess. I'm not really sure where you're going with this...what point you have. I think you must just want to say I'm wrong?

You have no answer for how Jesus knew us before, we weren't alive because it's not in scripture so couldn't be true...But I'm wrong? I don't get it man.

Have I offended your sensibilities? Maybe you're having a bad day or something? Sorry about that, I was just talking. If Jesus knew us before...what if we had actually talked with Him and just can't remember it?!...Not worship other God's, not doctrinal, not a salvific issue...

I hope you feel better soon.

 

[By Grace]

No, I'm not LDS. So, Jesus knew us before the foundation of the world, but we weren't alive...cuz scripture don't say so. Uh, ok I guess. I'm not really sure where you're going with this...what point you have. I think you must just want to say I'm wrong?

Thank you for answering that question. I asked about that because that teaching is distinctly Mormon.
Where I am going is stopping speculation. Everything we need to know about God, and His plan of salvation is revealed in Scripture, all 66 books.

There are also things that are revealed, such as election and predestination (Ephesians 1:4 ff) that are true, but the how and why are not given; nevertheless they are true

You have no answer for how Jesus knew us before, we weren't alive because it's not in scripture so couldn't be true...But I'm wrong? I don't get it man.

There is really nothing to "get". Scripture tells us things such as the Virgin Birth and the full inspiration of Scripture. It does not bother me that I cannot figure that out.

Have I offended your sensibilities? Maybe you're having a bad day or something? Sorry about that, I was just talking.

It is not personal, friend.
You added things to Scripture that were not there, and I wanted to demonstrate it in a kind manner without getting anyone "annoyed off"

If Jesus knew us before...what if we had actually talked with Him and just can't remember it?!...Not worship other God's, not doctrinal, not a salvific issue...

You assume something that is not supported in Scripture here. You are assuming that because Jesus knows us before we were born, that means that we were ALIVE before we were born. There is absolutely nothing that supports that idea in Scripture, and as I demonstrated earlier, you inserted the word "alive" into Ephesians 1:4. In other words you are making up things that are not supported, nor are they hinted at in Scripture. You are adding to Scripture, and that is forbidden in the last chapter of Revelation.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus​

 

[By Grace]

Beware of the spirit of discouragement. Satan always bring people into your life to keep you from your destiny.

The last time I checked the data on that above. Jesus Christ is more important and powerful than Satan. That is why I need to trust Jesus, Who can deliver me from the temptation of the lesser, Evil One aka Satan.

Of course, I will fail, and that is inevitable. That is why I need to rely on the love and grace of my Savior, and not worry about our Adversary who remains defeated since the first Easter.

 

[iLOVE]

The last time I checked the data on that above. Jesus Christ is more important and powerful than Satan. That is why I need to trust Jesus, Who can deliver me from the temptation of the lesser, Evil One aka Satan.

Of course, I will fail, and that is inevitable. That is why I need to rely on the love and grace of my Savior, and not worry about our Adversary who remains defeated since the first Easter.

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour: 1 Peter 5:8 NKJV
Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. 1 Peter 5:8 NIV

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi By Grace,

You say:

Of course, I will fail, and that is inevitable. That is why I need to rely on the love and grace of my Savior, and not worry about our Adversary who remains defeated since the first Easter. In post 117.

I think what iLOVE is saying is true. In other words, we can't put our guard down. Satan was defeated since the first Easter, as you say, in a spiritual sense. Sin no longer lords it over us because Jesus has won sin and the adversary.

When Peter wrote 1 Peter 5:8 which iLOVE quotes, Easter had already passed. Jesus was already gone from earth and the Holy Spirit was here. So why is Peter saying to be alert, sober and vigilant? Because satan is still the evil one, he still causes us to be tempted and to sin. Satan has power and should not be ignored. You yourself say that you will inevitably fail (post 117) so what do you think it is that makes you fail? It's the adversary. But Jesus will always help us to overcome.

I believe that's all iLOVE is saying - not that satan is more powerful.

I just think it's important to be on the look-out for him so we know when he's around.

Wondering

 

[By Grace]

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour: 1 Peter 5:8 NKJV
Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. 1 Peter 5:8 NIV

Of course, I will fail, and that is inevitable. That is why I need to rely on the love and grace of my Savior, and not worry about our Adversary who remains defeated since the first Easter. In post 117.

I think what iLOVE is saying is true. In other words, we can't put our guard down. Satan was defeated since the first Easter, as you say, in a spiritual sense. Sin no longer lords it over us because Jesus has won sin and the adversary.

Both are true statements, and not contradictory in the slightest.

Romans 3:3 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God
​

That includes me, and everyone on this planet. Just because we are justified, it does not mean that any of us are sinless. If you are in any church long enough, you know that is true.

Because we are human, we sin.

Despite our being redeemed, we will sin.

Because our Adversary tempts us, we will sin sometimes.

Although our Adversary tempts us, sometimes we will succumb, no matter how hard we resist; it is part of our fallen nature which will not be made perfect until the return of Jesus Christ.

Because we are justified, there is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.

Now please tell me which of those above statements is not true. I believe that ALL of them are true, and that non are contradictory. Of course there are spiritual forces at work here; we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but with spiritual forces. And it is that vast army of fallen angels who do the bidding of their fallen Master, in order to bring down both the witness and the effectiveness of the blood-bought believer.

That is why I focus on the grace of Jesus, and not on myself. I know that I am forgiven of ALL my sins, past, present and future

Psalm 37: 23 The steps of a man are established by the LORD, when he delights in his way;
24 though he fall, he shall not be cast headlong, for the LORD upholds his hand.
25 I have been young, and now am old, yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken or his children begging for bread.​

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. (2001). (Ps 37:23–25). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

I do not believe that the Bible teaches "sinless perfection", and I also believe that what I posted is accurate, and based on Scripture, because I made several overt allusions in writing that..