WHY IS GOD A WARRIOR AND JESUS A PANSY?

[GODHASSPOKENTOME]

-ivorhughjarse- AMEN !

 

[Elijah674]

I see what the orignial poster means and I can see why he used the extreme terms and it describes what he sees. The bible is one book but when Jesus was not in the flesh there was a lot of killing going on in the bible and when he arrives in the flesh he doesn't kill. Give the poster credit for seeing this

Yet, he needs (WE) to understand that the OT has Christ/God as His own theocracy. (NO MISTAKES!) And the N.T. (He) has His church as such, along with Ceasar having conditional authority with ONLY the last six SECOND table of Commandments. Rom. 13

And both of these are documented as FATALLY FLAWED befor He returned again. 666 + Rev. 3:9 along with ALL of the Rev. 17:1-5 ones!

And about Christ/God in the OT? Read Josh. 7 & see if you think that Achan got a bum rap?? read all the verses carefully!;) And remember that He (Achan) knew before his deed what the outcome would be. (as do we) And even then, find how many times that he or his family could have came forward! (the stuff was burried where??)

And Cain in Gen. 4:7? He also was given another PERSON TO PERSON Chance to DO THE RIGHT THING!

--Elijah

 

[ivorhughjarse]

What if it doesn't pan out as you plan it? I've spoken to loads of Christians in various denominations and cults and every one has a certain view of what God's plan is for the world..strange thing is, that it cannot possibly be any different to what they themselves think will happen.....but in time they adapt and change their view because none have had their current view always...its just the latest incarnation of what they thought before when they were so sure

Maybe accepting what God finally does may be the wise move

 

[jasoncran]

i guess a post or two on the angel of the lord . most theologians see that is a preincarnate Christ and he killed men.

ivor are you a christian? or not?

 

[ivorhughjarse]

Christ entered my life in 2001 I tried three churches and felt it was not for me so after 2 years of on and off church I have been in the wilderness and never attend I pray to God and accept Jesus saved me. I got told by my wife that the name Christian or any title was wrong for us but it was just conformation of what I was thinking...the world sees Christian for what it sees... I am now moving down a road where it leads to a great interest in Israel....but not with regard to the typical Christian view... it's a long journey but its opening my eyes to my failings with my knowledge of who God is and it's scary....my Jesus is firmer than I imagined

 

[jasoncran]

a gentile converting to judiasm yet wants christ?

im of jewish descent, i hate to ruin your thing but take from a man whose own family wont talk to him on the side of judaism. what i know mainly is from reading up on it or hearing from family when they did talk(rare) or also another here who has done far more leg work then me.

jews wont accept jesus and if you ask them from that angle of yours they wont give you any help. they dont want christians perverting the torah and its meanings. i have heard that from them a few times.

 

[ivorhughjarse]

we all have a walk to do and however you see church there is something really big missing from it. I'm simply searching for what that is....the world has wanted to destroy the nation of Israel even before it was reborn again with a land. I'll never have the answers but i will ask the question "why?". What makes the Jews such a target and no i do not wish to be Jewish but I do want to find out whats missing in the "Christian Church of today because the structure is just a diluted version of the Catholic Church done slightly differently. Even the home churches end up growing into what they have left behind.

You may not grasp what I see but that's fine. Every search has to start somewhere so mine is in the start of that nation and the begining of the modern Christian church and seeing what of it is around in this later Church....thats where i discovered no ending to the Sabbath...something I didn't know but also nothing in the mega church prosperity gospel was back there either...the list is endless,

 

[jasoncran]

i do what i do because GOD has told me that im a jew and also did tell me look at isreal and this whole interesting ancient judaism started again.THAT AND my grandmother passed and Im seeing the world in part through her eyes and my grandfather as well and im also able to understand how much i didnt know them and how it must have hurt them when my dad married my mother. they accepted my mom but well if you know devout jews it hurt them. they died not telling me and my siblings as they loved us but im sure they let dad know, they also didnt like my mom much until i was born.

i have tried not let my dads statement at dinner "why do you care about jewish weddings you are no JEW?" bother me too much but it hurts.

but one can attend either a gentile church or a messianic judiasm temple and still be a member of corporate body. not all gentile believers are agaisnt what is ocurring if they allow it. ie going back to the hebraic roots of the bible.

we have three year that embrace it

vic c and admin. stevebolts and myself and others that dont but do have knowledge on judaism. the day thing isnt something i bother with.

 

[Elijah674]

What if it doesn't pan out as you plan it? I've spoken to loads of Christians in various denominations and cults and every one has a certain view of what God's plan is for the world..strange thing is, that it cannot possibly be any different to what they themselves think will happen.....but in time they adapt and change their view because none have had their current view always...its just the latest incarnation of what they thought before when they were so sure

Maybe accepting what God finally does may be the wise move

Are you serious?? God has the Eternal plan, and His knowledge of how it was to be has always been known. Read Isaiah 5. See verse 3 for His Virgin [HOUSE] & their free choice BETWIXT HE & it! There was nothing wrong with His House [[EXCEPT IT WAS CHRISTLESS WITHOUT HIM!]] (Got that?)

The original plan was to use Israel who have now been rejected as an Nation. (Matt. 23:38) Then came Acts [CHURCH] who became REJECTED! See Rev, 17:1-5 from mother to verse 5's DAUGHTERS! Then came Laodicea to be SPEWED OUT ONES! (see Rev. 3:16 + verse 9 along with Rev. 2:5)

And finally Rev. 3:10 with the Last Virgin 6th Remnant Church of Rev. 12:17! The Eternal know plan has ETERNALLY KNOWN that of all of these, only a small REMNANT would be saved... YET NEVER MISS IT THAT THESE SAVED ONES ALL WERE OBEDIENT TO THE PLANS VIRGIN DOCTRINES!!;)
What mankind teaches (Jer. 17:5) matters little, for God DOCUMENTS who these ones will be, and that is the FINISH of Their Eternally KNOW PLAN!

Rev. 12
[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

--Elijah

 

[ivorhughjarse]

Elijah dont be too shocked if you are not alone in the afterlife and they wont all be academics

 

[Elijah674]

we all have a walk to do and however you see church there is something really big missing from it. I'm simply searching for what that is....the world has wanted to destroy the nation of Israel even before it was reborn again with a land. I'll never have the answers but i will ask the question "why?". What makes the Jews such a target and no i do not wish to be Jewish but I do want to find out whats missing in the "Christian Church of today because the structure is just a diluted version of the Catholic Church done slightly differently. Even the home churches end up growing into what they have left behind.

You may not grasp what I see but that's fine. Every search has to start somewhere so mine is in the start of that nation and the begining of the modern Christian church and seeing what of it is around in this later Church....thats where i discovered no ending to the Sabbath...something I didn't know but also nothing in the mega church prosperity gospel was back there either...the list is endless,

--Elijah here:
OK: Let me come back & just give Inspiration? I will just ad highlites for emphasis. Remember your questions asked + just forget the Rev. 17:1-5 ones for now. This was Christs Church/House. Check out what you find in [this future prophecy?]

Isa. 5
[1] Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill:

[2] And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.

[3] And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, [[judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard.]](see verse 7)

[4] What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?

[5] And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down:

[6] And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.

[7] For [[the vineyard]] of the LORD of hosts is [[the house]] of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.

[8] Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth!

(Perhaps you might just read Christ's WORD on Matt. 23:38 also for this prophecies fullfillment?)

Matt. 23
[37] O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
[38] Behold, your [[house is left unto you desolate]].

---Elijah

 

[GODHASSPOKENTOME]

-Elijah674- I might be wrong and I am not an expert on the Bible but maybe I have an answer for you. History books are constantly telling us that "History always repeats itself" and "Rise and fall of every civilization that has ever existed". Now what does that have to do with God and the Bible? When Christianity or the land of Israel etc. first started everything was militant, harsh, disciplined etc. and human beings were willing to sacrifice their lives for the cause. As time went on civilizations and religions etc. started to get lazy and they started to water down the hard or difficult parts of the civilization or religion and the Bible. Remember we can interpret the Bible and Gods word to mean that we should accept Homosexuality and Same Sex Marriages and Abortions and Pedophilia etc. because it is the lazy way of justifing anything. In America and western Europe we now are lazy and greedy and this is why we are falling apart...

 

[Elijah674]

-Elijah674- I might be wrong and I am not an expert on the Bible but maybe I have an answer for you. History books are constantly telling us that "History always repeats itself" and "Rise and fall of every civilization that has ever existed". Now what does that have to do with God and the Bible? When Christianity or the land of Israel etc. first started everything was militant, harsh, disciplined etc. and human beings were willing to sacrifice their lives for the cause. As time went on civilizations and religions etc. started to get lazy and they started to water down the hard or difficult parts of the civilization or religion and the Bible. Remember we can interpret the Bible and Gods word to mean that we should accept Homosexuality and Same Sex Marriages and Abortions and Pedophilia etc. because it is the lazy way of justifing anything. In America and western Europe we now are lazy and greedy and this is why we are falling apart...

Hi, here is how God call's it! (forget mankind's Jer. 17:5 ones!) ...

The Heb. 5 'babes' + all the ignorant ones call Real Faith, speculation. And who Believes the Words of Christ??? Not many. If they could Really BELIEVE what they speculate 'about', They could toss out most of their Jer. 17:5 [faith/less/ness!]

Christ is the Word of God (John 1:1-5 +11-14!) THE BOOK IS HIS [WORD!} 'TESTIMONY'!
History is to be REPEATED as seen in THE WORDS OF CHRIST. Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 TWICE [Documented] as again seen in Gen. 41:32's TRUTH '.. was [DOUBLED BECAUSE THE THING (anything!) WAS ESTABLISHED BY GOD], ..'

Gen. 41
[32] And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass.

Eccl. 1
[9] The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
[10] Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

Eccl. 3:14-15
[14] I know that, whatsoever God doeth, (Or His WORD SAYETH!) it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
[15] That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.

OK: Lets 'test' the Lord with HIS WORD! (and we are not talking about the very few times that He tells us of that history does not repeat which are not savational (new word, huh!) ! Such as Nah. 1:9, the World flood & God's Word that it will not happen again.. or it would! He makes it easier by telling us of these very few occasions.) Yet, just think of how quickly such false doctrines as OSAS, + Immortality of the person as told of in Gen. 3 by satan, and taught for truth by the Rev. 17:1-5 ones, and the garbage of the preterist teaching, & the one final Big TEST of the 666 sun worship testing would be given the heave/hoe.. if one could MATURE TO REALLY BELIEVE THE WORD OF CHRIST!

In 2 Thess. 2:1-3 there is something that WAS THE BIGGEST FALLING AWAY IN the Universe! (so far) The Word from the MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE! (compare Isa. 3:verse 5) This IS PAST/TENSE, and also is in PROGRESS AS THE ONCE REQUIRED AGAIN TIME! (compare Heb. 6:6 for Christ's re/crucifixion!) The 2 Thess. above verse [DOCUMENT] this bellow again... (Christ came to His Very Own in the ending of the O.T.!)

[1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
[2] That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. (It was in Israel's day, DESOLATE! Matt. 23:38, Closed Door! in Matt. 25:10! as was the Ark of Noah!)

John 1 tells us Christ was REJECTED! No need to go into detail is there?? Put OUT of His OWN FOLD. spit on, & EXECUTED! And if you do not know who stood in His place... you are spiritually brain DEAD! (but check it out by the REPEATED REQUIREMENT HISTORY in Rev. 3:9. Any church (fold) that does not have Christ IN IT, is Christ/less and is the devils church!

[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
[4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This repeated History is NO different than that of the End of the O.T. when Christ came the first time. Their 7 times SHAKING WAS THEIR [MIDNIGHT CRY]! They too were [ALL] Sleeping! Christ was to be the centerpiece of His Very Own Virgin Fold, yet, what did HE DO, THAT WAS THE CAUSE OF THE FIRST TERRIBLE SHAKING??! Only one thing, and that was to force Israel to MAKE A TESTING OF FREE CHOICE! (Isa. 5:3 was the TEST!) Few of the APOSTATE ISRAEL followed Christ [OUT] to start up His 'REMNANT' Church of Acts. (see Matt. 10:5-6) And in time the very same History is again seen repeating & repeated!! Thus you have the Rev. 17:5 ones + the Rev. 3:9 one with the Rev. 3:10 seen in Rev. 12:17!

And what is New God Asks??? NOTHING 'HE' ANSWERS, before the Jer. 17:5 'tower of babbling ones' can garble it all up ! But it is God who tells what will shortly happen next... Christ will come!

--Elijah

 

[ivorhughjarse]

--Elijah here:
OK: Let me come back & just give Inspiration? I will just ad highlites for emphasis. Remember your questions asked + just forget the Rev. 17:1-5 ones for now. This was Christs Church/House. Check out what you find in [this future prophecy?]

Isa. 5
[1] Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill:

[2] And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.

[3] And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, [[judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard.]](see verse 7)

[4] What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?

[5] And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down:

[6] And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.

[7] For [[the vineyard]] of the LORD of hosts is [[the house]] of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.

[8] Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth!

(Perhaps you might just read Christ's WORD on Matt. 23:38 also for this prophecies fullfillment?)

Matt. 23
[37] O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
[38] Behold, your [[house is left unto you desolate]].

---Elijah

We know that, we have seen it with our own eyes the scattering of that nation throughout all lands but surely the sign of the gathering back together to the home that was desolate and that they were scattered from means that God is letting this occur .......He can do desolate,..for whatever period he chooses

 

[Elijah674]

We know that, we have seen it with our own eyes the scattering of that nation throughout all lands but surely the sign of the gathering back together to the home that was desolate and that they were scattered from means that God is letting this occur .......He can do desolate,..for whatever period he chooses

Matt.25 has in verse 10 a CLOSED DOOR. A new leader (satan took over the Lords EX/HOUSE. He was rejected!) As a nation old Israel was eternally rejected. The MIDNIGHT CRY of Matt. 25

Acts was the New Extension of old Israel. The REMNANT are seen in Matt. 10:5-6 on! See what their JUDGEMENT found in verse 15... far the worse than that of S & G. (compare Luke 12:47-48)

New Israel is seen in Rom. 2
[23] Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
[24] For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
[25] For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
[26] [[[Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?]]]
[27] And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?


[28] For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
[29] But [[[he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit]]], and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

________________

And the 144000 will be made up of the number of Rev. 12:17 ones from these Remnant faithful. You sure can see the last Laodicea Rev. 3:16 + Rev. 17:1-5 (and daughters) all are Rev. 2:5 REJECTED? And verse 9 of Rev. 3 finds the last of the seven church's with its candelstick removed & becoming the synagogue of satan. YET! They say that they are whom??? ibid 9

And if you read closely, you can detect that as in old Israel, Philadelphia the sixth church was on the scene at the same time period, and replaced Laodicea.. ibid Rev. 3 10's 666 testing! (as the Acts church did old Israel)

OK: This small group will be the wittness before the world in 'testimony' in the world court. It will start in USA & end up in the UN world court no doubt. 666

But take note of Inspiration found in 1 Peter 4:17 for who was to be judged first of Laodicea! (the same as was Old Israel's Matt. 10:5-6 SEPERATION!... 2 Thess. 2:1-3 division of the wheat & tares. Now comes the fruit of the world's TESTING of Rev. 7:9 which includes from the Gen. start to the Rev. 666 Finish!)

--Elijah

 

[ivorhughjarse]

that's as clear as mud to me.....

 

[Drew]

Here is an answer I will bet no one will agree with:

1. God's promotion of war in the Old Testament is something He had no choice but to do, in service of a greater good in the setting of the Biblical narrative. As such, this model of divine behaviour should not be seen as normative.

2. Jesus shows the real model for dealing with evil this side of the cross.

If anyone wants me to expand on this, I will.

 

[Free]

Here is an answer I will bet no one will agree with:

1. God's promotion of war in the Old Testament is something He had no choice but to do, in service of a greater good in the setting of the Biblical narrative. As such, this model of divine behaviour should not be seen as normative.

2. Jesus shows the real model for dealing with evil this side of the cross.

If anyone wants me to expand on this, I will.

How much would you bet on that? ;)

 

[Drew]

How much would you bet on that? ;)

Are you suggesting that you agree with my assertion that God "had no choice" but to order all that Old Testament violence? If so, I am perhaps a little surprised - you and I agree on much, but I would not have been surprised if we would not see this issue the same way.

You should know that, unless my memory fails me in respect to having absorbed this idea from someone else, such as good old NTW, this suggestion is my own idea, or, perhaps to be more precise, it is what I have concluded given certain other ideas that I have shamelessly lifted from NTW.

More specifically,my assertion is inspired by NTW's argument that God used Israel as the "repository" for the sins of the world. The basic idea: sin needed to be "localized" in national Israel and then further localized in her representative Messiah, Jesus. With sin thus "cornered", it is then condemned on the cross (Romans 8:3).

Within this picture, it makes sense to imagine that all that slaughter was God's way of beginning this process, by effectively "hardening" Israel to be so violent. Remember Pharoah - as uncomfortable as it for us, I believe we need to accept that God actively "hardens" people, with the result that they do evil.

I realize this notion seems to make God the author of sin. Of course, I would deny this, but I understand why some may see me as suggesting this.

 

[Free]

I am not certain we see the reasoning the same for why God "had no choice," but I have read from some, other than NTW, that this was the only possible world that God could have made. Further musings on that idea as well as, I'm sure, some of your postings from back a ways on the subject, lead me to conclude that God had no choice.

I have some ideas but haven't developed them very far.