Why is there so much resistance to the eternal security of the believer?

[Malachi]

Considering eternal security how does one reconcile it with text like this. 2 Peter 2:18-22 NKJV

The false teachers that Peter exposes are quite clearly unregenerate, since they violate everything pertaining to the true Gospel and true Christian holiness. Therefore they are described in a very uncomplimentary manner.

 

[Butch5]

It still amazes me after all these years that there are actually Christians who want to live their whole lives not being sure if they are actually saved or if they will eventually make it to heaven.

It amazes me that so many believe in a doctrine that doesn't appear in church history until the Reformation, fifteen hundred years after Christianity began. Christianity is 2000 years old and OSAS, as a Christian doctrine, is only 500 years old. That's a problem.

Worse, they get angry with those who have solid assurance of salvation and try to make them insecure in their salvation. I work for a ministry and I have read one too many testimonies of Christians whose lives were miserable and defeated because they were taught that they could lose their salvation and were never sure if they were really saved.

Do you form your doctrine based on how people feel?

 

[Malachi]

I see no provision of eternal security for unbelievers, nor for the unrighteous.

Nobody would teach this unless they are Universalists.

If you have some scriptures that teach us, the Lord's Covenant people can live an ungodly or unrighteous lifestyle and still be saved, then please share them with us, so we can all learn from them.

Since genuine salvation requires genuine repentance and genuine coversion, those who are truly saved turn away from sins and idols. And if a genuine Christian sins wilfully, there are serious consequences, but if they have been born again, they cannot be "unborn".

If you have some scriptures that teach us, the Lord's Covenant people can depart from Him in unbelief, and still be saved, then please share them with us, so we can all learn from them.

Those who depart from God in unbelief were never saved to begin with. Those who are truly saved can fall, but cannot and will not be separated from Christ (e.g. Peter's denial of Christ and his restoration). However, their sins and failures will be dealt with as God sees fit (e.g. Ananias and Sapphira). "There is a sin unto death" (speaking of premature physical death). The example of the sinning brother in Corinth is another good example, but we don't know what "the destruction of the flesh" entailed (possibly a serious disease).

 

[Stan1953]

Losing fellowship and losing salvation are two different things altogether. What you are talking about is losing fellowship, and there are severe consequences when believers sin wilfully. But that does not change the fact that eternal life remains eternal life (which was a gift to the sinner to begin with) and their salvation is always secure. Study 1 and 2 Corinthians and what happened to a sinning brother.

That's not what he was talking about. Apostasy is freely walking away from what you believed in, not losing salvation, but giving up on it. Heb 6:4-6 (NIV)

 

[DWJL511]

Do you form your doctrine based on how people feel?

What if I told you as a young man God spoke to my heart the truth as He showed me a whole bunch of Scriptures that prove OSAS? I left the bookshop having touched life, feeling His peace and love. Then, many years later, I read a famous book that showed how a Christian can lose his salvation. Scriptures were also quoted and interpreted for me. But this time, darkness and fear entered my soul. I was confused, shaken. God felt like a thousand miles away. Thank goodness, the peace was restored through the words of a wise pastor. Would that be good enough for you? I didn't think so.

As far as debates are concerned, Scripture alone is not enough because everyone claims his interpretation is the correct one. You need "feelings" too. "But the wisdom from above is first of all pure. It is also peace loving, gentle at all times, and willing to yield to others. It is full of mercy and good deeds. It shows no favoritism and is always sincere" (James 3:17, NLT). If living unsure about your eternal destiny and hearing more preaching along this line gives you peace and wisdom from above, that is your prerogative.

There will always be those who choose to continue living under the law. And as Ishmael persecuted Isaac, so it is the same today (Galatians 4:29). We all have the same Father, but not all of us have the same mother.

 

[Stan1953]

Nobody would teach this unless they are Universalists.

That is a typical ploy of RT. Unlimited Atonement is NOT universalism.

 

[Malachi]

It amazes me that so many believe in a doctrine that doesn't appear in church history until the Reformation, fifteen hundred years after Christianity began. Christianity is 2000 years old and OSAS, as a Christian doctrine, is only 500 years old. That's a problem.

The Reformation simply revived a Bible doctrine that was not only suppressed but rejected by the Catholic Church. The eternal security of the believer is embedded in Scripture itself, even going back to the Old Testament. So it has been around for at least 6,000 years. We could quote chapter and verse, but one passage should suffice (Heb 11:4): By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

What does that last phrase mean "he being dead yet speaketh"? It is telling us that Abel's imputed righteousness from about 4,000 B.C. (because of his faith in the Lamb of God) is speaking to us right now, that his salvation was and is eternal, as will be that of all those who believe.

Though Abel died about 6,000 years ago, he is presently alive with Christ. As Matthew Henry comments:

That God would not suffer Abel’s faith to die with him, but would raise up others, who should obtain like precious faith; and so he did in a little time; for in the next verse we read,II. Of the faith of Enoch, v. 5. He is the second of those elders that through faith have a good report.

 

[Stan1953]

What does that last phrase mean "he being dead yet speaketh"? It is telling us that Abel's imputed righteousness from about 4,000 B.C. (because of his faith in the Lamb of God) is speaking to us right now, that his salvation was and is eternal, as will be that of all those who believe.
Though Abel died about 6,000 years ago, he is presently alive with Christ. As Matthew Henry comments:

As Jesus said no man has EVER seen God accept Him, this assertion is just that. Not factual at all. John 1:18 (NIV)

 

[Stan1953]

What does that last phrase mean "he being dead yet speaketh"? It is telling us that Abel's imputed righteousness from about 4,000 B.C. (because of his faith in the Lamb of God) is speaking to us right now, that his salvation was and is eternal, as will be that of all those who believe.
Though Abel died about 6,000 years ago, he is presently alive with Christ. As Matthew Henry comments:

As Jesus said no man has EVER seen God accept Him, this assertion is just that. Not factual at all. John 1:18 (NIV)

 

[Malachi]

That is a typical ploy of RT. Unlimited Atonement is NOT universalism.

The issue was whether unbelievers would be eternally secure. Obviously not. Only Universalists would claim that everyone would be saved, whether or not they had repented and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. Atonement is NOT limited, since Christ is the propitiation for the sins of THE WHOLE WORLD. But His finished work is effective only for those who repent and believe.

Unbelievers by definition never believed, therefore could never be saved, therefore could never be secure. As to the apostates, had they truly believed, they would remain in the faith. But there will be many false professors who could certainly walk away from the faith. But were they genuine or fake? There are multitudes who believe they are Christians because they were baptized as babies. If one of them walked away from the faith, could they really have been saved merely by having water sprinkled or poured on them?

 

[Stan1953]

The issue was whether unbelievers would be eternally secure. Obviously not. Only Universalists would claim that everyone would be saved, whether or not they had repented and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. Atonement is NOT limited, since Christ is the propitiation for the sins of THE WHOLE WORLD. But His finished work is effective only for those who repent and believe.

Unbelievers by definition never believed, therefore could never be saved, therefore could never be secure. As to the apostates, had they truly believed, they would remain in the faith. But there will be many false professors who could certainly walk away from the faith. But were they genuine or fake? There are multitudes who believe they are Christians because they were baptized as babies. If one of them walked away from the faith, could they really have been saved merely by having water sprinkled or poured on them?

I dealt with the OP and you have yet to reply to that response. I assume that the OP is the issue? I have not seen one person here claim EVERYONE will be saved. What post was that in? What EXACTLY is His "finished" work (another RT term)?

Well Hebrews 6 and 10 contradict you but you haven't actually addressed them have you? I think reading Luke 8:11-15 (NIV) may help you on this issue. The only example of those NOT saved is in v12. Those in vs13-15 are saved.
Yes I am aware of the false teaching of infant baptism. The RCC teaches and so did Calvin.

 

[Deborah13]

He also said that he beat his body into submission so that after preaching to others he himself wasn't cast off.

2Ti 4:6 for I am already being poured out, and the time of my release hath arrived;
2Ti 4:7 the good strife I have striven, the course I have finished, the faith I have kept,
2Ti 4:8 henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of the righteousness that the Lord--the Righteous Judge--shall give to me in that day, and not only to me, but also to all those loving his manifestation.

So what must one do to finish the race? They must keep the faith. If one rejects Christ, who is responsible for our faith and grace, they have no other way to be saved. They are not able to finish the race.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Butch,
There are two types of faith; 1. That that is spoken to impress, to fit in and for a variety of other reasons. They all fall into this type of faith. 2. Faith that though usually pronounce and even sworn to but need never be proclaimed because of it, vivid, presence in the believer. This second type is the faith that endures to the end. The first is not of the LORD and thus must always be built upon but is it for good? i am not sure but I worry about these folks and with good reason, over and over I have witnessed the first group tire and yield to destruction.

Food for thought.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I have to disagree that it is all God's work. Jesus Himself told His disciples to strive to enter in.

23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. (Luk 13:23-24 KJV)

In one way, you're right but with a solid Hermeneutically Based study you'll come up short, every time. For your, chosen or taught, position to hold you must either cast aside or choose to ignore what I came into the faith with the Holy Spirit teaching me in my first, ¿self propelled? Bible study, All scripture and any scripture, to be fully and properly understood must be viewed in the light of all other scripture.

This rule of understanding demands there is zero conflict between any scripture but instead when one perceives any possible conflict, the two must be reconciled to one another. This has two possible paths that can be pursued and one is correct and the other wrong. The issue can be pursued by man's wisdom or we can pray and then without ceasing, pray some more as we wait for God's answer, just as Daniel teaches us, to this day, to do.

I can never force anyone, not even you, to believe in OSAS but, contrary to a popular argument, Eternal Security, absolutely, is not a license to sin for any but the first group, the Self Propelled Group and this gives rise to the logical question, "Were they ever saved?" I would suggest no matter how much they professed, they were not. I and millions of other OSAS Believers do not sin nor take it as license to sin for a very similar reason I and the others never, intentionally, sinned against out Earthly Fathers or Dads, i9t would shame me to death to disappoint My Father.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Considering eternal security how does one reconcile it with text like this.

2 Peter 2:18-22 NKJV
Note: The "they" he speaks of in the first few verses are false teachers.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

WIP,
I'll try this one on if you can explain to me why you find issue with Eternal Security here.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Eternal Security (or OSAS) is a doctrine that was invented by individuals who weren't at all interested in living a holy and sanctified life.

Not at all Tim. I repent every time I am spurred by the Holy Spirit because I am Eternally Saved and to this day I still teach we are to live a life separated (Holy) to God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Nobody would teach this unless they are Universalists.

Since genuine salvation requires genuine repentance and genuine coversion, those who are truly saved turn away from sins and idols. And if a genuine Christian sins wilfully, there are serious consequences, but if they have been born again, they cannot be "unborn".

Those who depart from God in unbelief were never saved to begin with. Those who are truly saved can fall, but cannot and will not be separated from Christ (e.g. Peter's denial of Christ and his restoration). However, their sins and failures will be dealt with as God sees fit (e.g. Ananias and Sapphira). "There is a sin unto death" (speaking of premature physical death). The example of the sinning brother in Corinth is another good example, but we don't know what "the destruction of the flesh" entailed (possibly a serious disease).

It meant death of the SIN NATURE, not his physical body.
It makes no sense to have his physical body put to death "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus". (1 Corinthians 5:5 NASB). As we can see, it's a salvation issue.

You many want to argue that Paul does speak of physical death being the penalty for sin in this life (for the Christian) and I agree completely. But in the case above Paul is saying that this death is to happen in order that he can be saved on the Day of Judgment. Nobody is saved through the death of their physical body. But it is quite reasonable that Paul is saying that he is to be turned over to satan for chastisement so that his fleshly sin nature can be crucified through faith and repentance so he can be saved on the Day of Wrath. That makes sense. But dying in your physical body so you can be saved? Makes no sense. There is no power of salvation in that.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

May God bless those poor souls living in the torment of insecurity.

Yes, those who don't have faith in Christ, or stopped having it can't, by definition, have the assurance of salvation. By the very definition of what it means to have faith in Christ those who have faith in Christ KNOW they are saved. Faith = Knowing:

"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for..." (Hebrews 11:1 NASB)

People who believe are the one's who have the assurance of their salvation, not those who stopped believing.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But anyway, Malachi , there actually isn't a lot of resistance to OSAS in the Protestant church today. Like leaven in a lump of dough it has overtaken the whole (Galatians 5:9 NASB). As Butch5 points out, the doctrine is relatively new to the church. This should come as no surprise that the whole of God's people can be lead astray to such a large degree. Baal worship led the whole astray in the days of the Israelites.

Now I know it's not fair to OSASer's to say that ALL of them like the doctrine because it gives them the license to sin in regard to salvation, but clearly that aspect of OSAS is the ear tickling thing that draws in so many insincere 'Christians' who actually have little to no interest in leaving their sins behind and living for God. They like the fact that they can have their cake and eat it too. That surely is a reason, and a good one, why those few of us who do resist OSAS resist it.

In my struggle with sin it pangs me to see flippant, disobedient Christians who have excused themselves from their struggle with sin because they embrace a doctrine that says it doesn't matter if they sin or not, they're irretrievably saved anyways. I find not comfort or encouragement or help in their fellowship. They are hardly among those of us who have chosen to endure suffering along with brother Jesus for kingdom's sake. It's IMPOSSIBLE to draw any comfort and encourage from them. They are fat and happy in everything they indulge but what we seek to stay free of. It's like light trying to fellowship with darkness.

Another reason is, for those of us who are very much interested in people finding the truth and becoming new creations in Christ, in action, not just in name, OSAS simply does not, generally speaking, produce the obedient, faithful Christian OSASer's insist that it does. Simple observation proves the contention that it does to be utterly and completely false. I don't love the truth and want to see other people come to it because it creates fake, hypocritical Christians. I love the truth--which I'm suggesting is non-OSAS--because it produces fruitful plantings of God to the glory of God, not barren, dry, dead branches of thorns and thistles destined for the fires of hell that don't glorify God (Hebrews 6:8 NASB, John 15:6 NASB). What God loving, truth loving believer can find comfort in a doctrine that by and large (not categorically, of course) produces dead branches? Not this one.

 

[Deborah13]

I and millions of other OSAS Believers do not sin nor take it as license to sin

Another reason is, for those of us who are very much interested in people finding the truth and becoming new creations in Christ, in action, not just in name, OSAS simply does not, generally speaking, produce the obedient, faithful Christian OSASer's insist that it does.

Maybe the problem is not OSAS but other misunderstandings about how God deals with sin in someone's life. Even if one believes OSAS, what do they believe about God's discipline for a believer who sins? Do they think that because they are saved that they can just get away scott free while they are living?

Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Obviously, God knows that ALL His children are not perfect and will need to be chastised.