Why so many theologies?

[manichunter]

Why so many theologies?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why don't Christians have the same theology?

What is the matter? I believe it is carnality. I believe carnality has been disguising itself as spirit, hence every man is right in his own eyes.

 

[manichunter]

One thing I find amazing is that the Lord left the natural nation of Israel with an established theology and doctrine. He only gave them one theology. It was evident that they got off course a few times by people doing right in their own eyes. They went apostate because they got away from the theology God gave them. Jesus revealed to the Pharisees and Sadducees that carnality was at the root of their factionalism and different theologies.



Here is the riddle. Why would the Lord come in person to establish a new spiritual people (Israel) and not leave them a theology and doctrine. According to the Second Covenant Scripture, Jesus did leave His people with one theology and doctrine straight from His mouth. So how did we go from one theology that was again given by God Himself to mutltiple and different theologies? I believe carnality is at work again and everyone is right in their own eyes.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Why so many theologies?

Why don't Christians have the same theology?

What is the matter? I believe it is carnality. I believe carnality has been disguising itself as spirit, hence every man is right in his own eyes.

I believe it is lack of humility. People don't want to humble themselves to authority. People think they know best when reading the Bible, "hence every man is right in his own eyes". As long as some Christians reject a single teaching authority, there will be sects and multiple conflicting doctrines. The only way you can have one set of doctrines is if there is one authority who can say "Thus sayeth the Lord" and make their teaching binding.

Those who read the Bible for themeselves and pass their personal interpretations on to others perpetuate the problem (in my personal opinion). Those who are humble enough to say "I could be wrong" and submit to the teaching authority of the Church lend themselves to unity. (No offense intended.)

 

[lovely]

Hi Manic and CC, I generally agree.

(Pride in our own Doctrines)
When I think of Christ, who did not make Himself equal with God, taking a truly submissive role to the point of speaking no other doctrine than the Father's, then I am humbled and afraid, and I believe we all should be....and every church denomination should be. I do not see any church who is humbled to God to the point of being fearful of speaking anything outside of His Holy Doctrine alone.

(Not Mature enough for Meat...which leaves us wide open to false teaching)
We like things to be in a nice package, and easily understood. We want all the answers, but we want them in processed, easily digestable form. Man's Wisdom usually looks like this. We love everything to be condensed milk, and do not care to eat whole food, the meat. We are guilty of being content with having the nature of a mere man (woman), and being complacent about our lack of maturity. We need to die to self and system, and start over. We need to be willing to work hard, and suffer, for the sake of the Gospel. Because we can not receive certain teachings, though, we can stay comfortable. But, we are wide open to the attack of false teaching that tickles the ears...it feels good, gives a momentary high, but lacks the true changing Truth of God's power. God chose the simple and base things...the foolish things, but we can not resist man' wisdom. Just some thoughts on the topic.

The Lord bless you.

 

[Blazin Bones]

I think part of it comes from the many minds and trains of thought that make up the N.C Church. Sometimes what we see as different theologies are nothing more than differing ways of expression which lead to confusion between human minds. I think sometimes we also can get so wrapped up in trying to understand God, we forget that we can't. God gave us the bible so we can know who He is, but that doesn't mean he intended for us to know everything about who he is.

 

[knerd]

Jesus did not speak in theology.

He supposedly taught everything in parable. All his descriptions of the Kingdom of God used parable, metaphor and paradox. Once the spirit is literalized, it becomes fixed and frozen in dogma and theology.

 

[Drew]

Why so many theologies?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why don't Christians have the same theology?

What is the matter? I believe it is carnality. I believe carnality has been disguising itself as spirit, hence every man is right in his own eyes.

I think that part, and only part, of the answer is that God is far more complex and sophisticated than we expect or hope Him to be. In short, the task of understanding what the Scriptures say is fundamentally exceedingly difficult.

There is a mindset in the church which asserts that God would not make things complicated for us - that "fairness" demands a gospel that is easy to decode. The "fairness" argument notwithstanding, I believe that the scriptures encode and exceedingly complex, subtle, and rich message.

So while I do not deny that an element of "carnality" is at play here as well, I think that theology is a very difficult undertaking even if one has the highest motives.

 

[Veritas]

This is a neat thread to read...

I think the Truth is quite sharp as well. I sometimes have a picture of the Truth slicing right through all our theologies in a way not so much dissimilar to what God does in our personal lives as described in Hebrews 4:12. I think most Christian theologies are close, and prove efficacious for salvation (at least I hope they do!). But there is that which is simple for our hearts yet unexplainable; and as Drew said: provides a rich subtleness. This proves to be quite exciting.

 

[manichunter]

it is hard for believers to admit that sin is the root cause for all the division within Christianity.

 

[Drew]

it is hard for believers to admit that sin is the root cause for all the division within Christianity.

This may indeed work out to be true. But, when it comes to theology, the very nature of the task is daunting. So saying that the existence of multiple theologies is all the result of sin is kind of like saying that multiple theories of the atom are the result of sin.

I cannot emphasize enough - the theological truth that God has "hidden" in the scriptures is a complex, rich, and exceedingly subtle one. I suspect that in 1000 years (if the Lord has not returned), we will have discovered much more richness of truth than we have now.

Theology is not for babies - it is intellectually challenging work.

 

[Pogo]

I recenty was part of a discussion one morning at a local coffee shop.

An old farmer, in his eighties, commented that he now considers the scriptures to be much like the clues that those competing in a 'scavenger hunt' use. Except that the clues are all bound together into one book, but the commands are all mixed among pages of history, prophecy, commands pertaining to other dispensations, etc.

Wrong interpretations will account for many false starts, wrong turns, dead-ends, etc.

Only those who invest enough effort into selecting which commands are relevant to the hunt, and then properly interpret, and then execute these commands, will receive the reward.

I tend to agree with his analysis.

But, he also said, the biggest difference of this scavenger hunt compared to any other is that everyone is already playing...whether they think they are, or not...AND...whether they want to or not!

In Christ,

Pogo

 

[lovely]

I think that the richness and complexity of God, and His Truth, are not what divides us. For God's children, I would say these are the things that unify us!

God has called us to unity, and to maturity. Unity in the Truth, the one Truth of the Father, and it takes maturity to be able to digest this Truth. We apply ourselves in study, yes, but this is purely a tool the Holy Spirit uses. God made work, and we should work hard at study and application of His Word...we should be feeding on it. God has chosen the plain teaching of the Cross, and Christ Crucified, to reveal His rich and complex Wisdom to man, though. Why? So that we glory only in the Lord, and not in the teaching of man. We can not receive greater Truth, or meat, in our own wisdom (which divides). We can not receive it unless we mature to a point that milk no longer sustains. Even children, and the simple minded, can grow in the simple Truth and grace of the Father's Doctrine just by applying it in Holy Fear.

Remember, Jesus prayed that we would have unity, and we are exhorted by the Word to walk in the Truth. These two things are not at odds for the sincere believer. The divison comes in when there are motives that need to be revealed, and false motives can not stand agains Truth...it is a filter of sorts for those who are not walking in the Spirit and in Truth. We need them to be rooted out so that deception can be dealt with, and not allowed to run rampant, especially for the sake of those on milk. We have to be careful not to offend these little ones, and I think that is why God warns that teachers will be held accountable for what they teach.

The Father's doctrine is simple, to love God with all, and to love one another as we love ourselves. Simple, but so very difficult to live when we use man's wisdom, but not if we apply God's Truth! How will they know us? By our brotherly love! So, in the course of our walk, in our tribulations, and so on we grow, and produce fruit, and the love of God is shed across our hearts. This brings us to maturity, to meat, and to the ability to carry out such a simple doctrine, and to be unified in His Truth alone. In our maturity we become more focused on just obeying God, and do not get stuck on the how or why of those fundamental things that we should already know. We can teach it only when we live it, and example it. One of the problems we have are teachers who are on milk, and puffed up in their own wisdom, and lacking a mature walk in Christ.

When we lack maturity, and Truth, we divide. We are not filled on the living Word, but feeding on man's 'dead food'. When we do this, God gives us over to our own devices...and He allows us to walk in our own counsel. Consider this verse...

Psalm 81
10 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt: open thy mouth wide, and I will fill it.
11 But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me.
12 So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels.

Denominations are our downfall, they are our pride, and our own counsel. We have been given over to them much like Israel. The answer isn't the Baptist Church, or the Methodist, or the Catholic, it's Jesus, His Word, and the Wisdom of God imparted by the Holy Spirit for the mature believer. We have taken on His name, haven't we? Jeremiah 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

Just some more thoughts (In the midst of the present chaos of the children dancing and singing Gospel bluegrass here in our house! Yes, I said bluegrass!). The Lord bless all of you.

 

[Imagican]

Wow,

And NO mention of the 'adversary'. Him who's purpose is to decieve. Him that would BE God Himself if he were able. Him who wants NOTHING MORE than to BE worshiped AS God.

Come on folks. It's NOT simply a matter of 'personal interpretation' WITHOUT influence. There is one known as 'the Father of Lies'. And his is to deceive in ANY way possible to cloud over or alter truth.

What many seem to be ignorant of or even in a state of utter denial is that Satan has infiltrated EVERY aspect of humanity. The WORLD is LOST in that it follows HIM. Even in the churches has his influence been exerted. For WHO else would he LOVE to subvert than those that WOULD follow God through Christ? Those that have no desire to please God are ALREADY HIS.

So, can there be ANY doubt that Satan himself has created MUCH of the diversion from and alteration of The Truth? Credit where credit is due folks. We battle with principalities and powers that we have LITTLE understanding of. And THAT is how we are able to witness SO MANY of the divisions that exist in 'Christianity'. If those that create these 'different doctrines' do so with the FEELING of inspiration, if they are WRONG, then WHERE does such 'inspiration' COME FROM? Simple question with a 'simple answer'.

And NEVER forget that one of Satan's most SUCCESSFUL lies is that 'he doesn't even exist'. That he is some sort of a 'cartoon character' that is NOT to be taken seriously. How many times have I pointed out his power to those that would deny his ability to influence the weak. Whether Christians or simply those 'pretending to be', his power is emense in ability to influence. Yet I have often witnessed those that would deny this in that they would offer that Satan CANNOT influence 'Christians'. Satan exerts his greatest INFLUENCE ON CHRISTIANS. For the REST of the world is ALREADY HIS.

Never forget this: Satan will one day stand on this earth and be worshiped AS God. If the different doctrines were ALL based on 'truth', this could NEVER happen. For it took Satan himself to 'alter' the truth in order for MANY MANY churches to TEACH that which would enable the future to take place as predicted by God through His prophets. Something HAD to be altered in order for him to BE worshiped AS God upon his earthly dominion. Think about it...........

Blessings,

MEC

 

[lovely]

Mec, I agree deception is so key to this.

Your post reminded me of this passage....

John 8
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[knerd]

I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven
Luke 10:18

 

[lovely]

knerd,

Would you elaborate?

 

[knerd]

Luke 11:20 is a parallel:
"If by God's finger I drive out demons, then for you God's imperial rule has arrived."

Satan was believed to have been an agnel whose job was to accuse and test humans before God.
Job 1:6-12 and 2:1-7. Today it seems like other people and groups have taken on that task.

 

[lovely]

Luke 11:20 is a parallel:
"If by God's finger I drive out demons, then for you God's imperial rule has arrived."

Satan was believed to have been an agnel whose job was to accuse and test humans before God.
Job 1:6-12 and 2:1-7. Today it seems like other people and groups have taken on that task.

I understand what you mean now. I guess, I do that sometimes, unfortunately, especially in the name of zeal. I hate that. It's easy to get into a critical mindset with the church, because we all are so different, and take on the accuser's ways, huh? I guess, like children who bicker, and like Adam and Eve did, we blame everyone else, but fail to see how we can please God better. Yeah, I do this sometimes. sigh. I desire unity in Truth (which can sometimes make me like the accuser blaming him or her, or this or that), but I also want to avoid being part of a unity that is void of Truth, and the gate to the broad road of all inclusiveness. I guess God's plan will unfold, and our natures will be used...I hope it's our new ones.

The Lord bless you.

 

[duval]

As I see it, others may have taken on the task left by Satan vbut he works thru them. Satan would have us all to be drunken, liars, murderers, fornicators etc., etc. But all will not do that . Some want to be good husbands and wives, good children and good moral citizens. Satan knows that of itself, while admirable will still keep such from under the precious blook of Jesus. Many of these good people however will want to be religious, go to church and go to heaven. Thus Satan for those fold designs false religions with just enough truth mixed in with error that they still are not saved although they may think so. Many churches are counterfeits. However, the counterfeit only goes to prove the value of the real church---just as the counterfeit $100 bill tells us the real $100 is out there somewhere.---Duval

 

[BobRyan]

One thing I find amazing is that the Lord left the natural nation of Israel with an established theology and doctrine. He only gave them one theology. It was evident that they got off course a few times by people doing right in their own eyes. They went apostate because they got away from the theology God gave them. Jesus revealed to the Pharisees and Sadducees that carnality was at the root of their factionalism and different theologies.



Here is the riddle. Why would the Lord come in person to establish a new spiritual people (Israel) and not leave them a theology and doctrine. According to the Second Covenant Scripture, Jesus did leave His people with one theology and doctrine straight from His mouth. So how did we go from one theology that was again given by God Himself to mutltiple and different theologies? I believe carnality is at work again and everyone is right in their own eyes.

In Mark 7 Christ makes it clear "in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of MEN.. by your tradition you negate the commandments of God".

Letting the "Bible speak" and "be it's own interpreter" is the heart and soul of exegesis.

INSERTING our own pre-bias into the text each time a pet idea is challenged is "eisegesis" AND it is the heart and sould of the sinful human nature that we all have.

That is the source of how "things got skewed and then stayed skewed".

in Christ,

Bob