Why The World Rejects God

[Soul man]

Myself, and I do believe and can confirm the existence. I was very involved in my local youth group, wanted to be a preacher for a short amount of time, and fully believed in God. Just a lot of life events had me reevaluate my beliefs and ideas.

Right, I understand your thinking but you dont unbecome a Christian, if you were a Christian you still are. That's what is referred to as the birthing, the moment you believed you could not save yourself and needed a savior, youwere born ofGod. It is an act of God, you see that.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

No apologies needed. The view I come from currently is that there could possibly be a power that governs the universe and its could be a god or gods. It could be something we just don't know how to describe or even articulate. My main objection from my view point is why trust that the Bible is the true account and that all of it is true. I understand the statement of faith of the forums and I'm not saying anything bad against those that accept that position. I think many discussion talk about God making sense or why a rule makes sense or not comes down to accepting specific premises before hand.

For example discussing Mosiach law vs New Covenant assumes that God is the authority and we are discussing differences and consistency there. Talking with a Non Christian about various Biblical law systems vs a Non Biblical law system has the hurdle of establishing what would be the common authority. For example the common authority between Christianity and Islam is that of Prophets and the supposed words of their god. So comparing and contrasting is based on a specific figure. When discussing with a Naturalist ( Atheist or any other non Theological ideology) The common authority is lost because one system is based on what we observe and learn from the observation , and one is based on Authority from a supreme law figure. So the hurdle is one doesn't understand where one bases their ideals while the other doesn't recognize the authority of the ideals. Thats the gist of what I'm trying to say. Its almost completely different starting points.

I see. Starting points are worth considering. But I don't think starting points should get in the way. There are too many starting points, and I hear too often with regard to the concern of reaching people, or differing beliefs generalizations of starting points that if it's given too much focus it gets too generalized and nothing is accomplished.

So with that said let's look at specific starting points that we know. The more personal the better. If we don't go that route it becomes too philosophical and has no solid foundation to stand on and work from. Milk-Drops, you've said that you use to believe in Christian beliefs but later re-evaluated your beliefs. Can you say how old you were when you changed beliefs, and how long it's been since then? If nothing else that can be a basis of how long a person grows into that set of beliefs. If you can also, tell us how many times your beliefs took a major shift in direction since then. I'll do the same and start when I descided to become a Christian, how long it's been and any known changes in belief. That way we can get a decent starting point and have a loose basis of each other's experiences.

Before I became a Christian I believed in God. There was at least the sense that something existed. But also there was an element of a response to prayer, sometimes even answered prayer, that led me to believe that there's not just some cosmic force out there. That there is something out there that answers prayers starting with "dear God," thus the reasoning that God must be real. Around 15 or so I'd say I looked into the Old Testiment and the New Testiment of the bible. That starting point was that if God is real then at least the Jewish faith had scriptures that came from Him. From there, my goal was going to look at the scriptures of the prophets from each later religion that claimed to have messages from God. I stopped after the new Testiment due to hearing a common statement in Islam beliefs that the Quran corrects the previous scriptures and is the new authority. Personally I could not accept the idea that God couldn't protect His own words from becoming corrupted. I stayed a Christian basing my beliefs on my understanding of reading the bible. It's been 23 years since then and I'd say I've had one or two major changes in my beliefs. Still believing in God, but one was after a difficult time in life that shook my faith (among other things), and the other potiential one is more just reevaluating how the world really works.

If you want to I invite you to give at least this much about your current starting point. How long it's been since you've changed your beliefs away from Christianity, and how old you were when you did. Anything more then that's up to you if you want to share it.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Right, I understand your thinking but you dont unbecome a Christian, if you were a Christian you still are. That's what is referred to as the birthing, the moment you believed you could not save yourself and needed a savior, youwere born ofGod. It is an act of God, you see that.

Would you count it if the person was raised in a Christian enviornment, adopting their parent's rationelle until they had enough experience on their own to own up to their own beliefs, but then after thay walked away from Christianity? My dad's religion has a concept called the age of accountability. What it means is a kind of rough estimate when a person thinks on their own to descide their beliefs and is no longer as dependent on their parents beliefs to show them what is right. If it holds merrit then there's the uncomfortable aspect that a person born and raised in Christianity might not be Christian until they can choose for themself where it's true or not.

Honestly I hope you're right Soul man, that ones your saved you can't walk away from that. But there are gray areas that might exist.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Right, I understand your thinking but you dont unbecome a Christian, if you were a Christian you still are. That's what is referred to as the birthing, the moment you believed you could not save yourself and needed a savior, youwere born ofGod. It is an act of God, you see that.

I disagree on that.

 

[Soul man]

Would you count it if the person was raised in a Christian enviornment, adopting their parent's rationelle until they had enough experience on their own to own up to their own beliefs, but then after thay walked away from Christianity? My dad's religion has a concept called the age of accountability. What it means is a kind of rough estimate when a person thinks on their own to descide their beliefs and is no longer as dependent on their parents beliefs to show them what is right. If it holds merrit then there's the uncomfortable aspect that a person born and raised in Christianity might not be Christian until they can choose for themself where it's true or not.

Honestly I hope you're right Soul man, that ones your saved you can't walk away from that. But there are gray areas that might exist.

There are no gray areas in God, I'll say more tomm.

 

[Soul man]

Would you count it if the person was raised in a Christian enviornment, adopting their parent's rationelle until they had enough experience on their own to own up to their own beliefs, but then after thay walked away from Christianity? My dad's religion has a concept called the age of accountability. What it means is a kind of rough estimate when a person thinks on their own to descide their beliefs and is no longer as dependent on their parents beliefs to show them what is right. If it holds merrit then there's the uncomfortable aspect that a person born and raised in Christianity might not be Christian until they can choose for themself where it's true or not.

Honestly I hope you're right Soul man, that ones your saved you can't walk away from that. But there are gray areas that might exist.

Your question is the same question Christians ask all around the world. Not understanding their Bible and the teaching they receive has caused more confusion and dilution than Martin Luther's time.
Do you understand our union life, understanding that "he that is joined to the Lord is one spirit."
I'm not going to give all the verses you can look them up, I use the King James version.
Does sin break our Union with Christ? This is a fair question, and if it is answered affirmatively, there are two possible positions for the Christian.
He must, at a given time, be either sinlessly perfect or a lost soul, there can be no intermediate ground.
To practice this, however, is to disannul the birthing. Since we believe that all scripture hinges on human beings being reborn with the new father and a new life in them, certainly we must answer this question.
To give a true reply to this important question, the two aspects which must be considered, first, the Scriptures, and second, human experience.
Let's look first at the Scriptures. The word not only implies but directly states that Christians sin. It also presents the cure for such sin, which is wholly different from that provided for the sins of the unsaved.
This idea both directly and indirectly constitutes a very large portion of the epistles of the new testament. The epistles are written to believers only and disclose both the believers union with Christ and his present state before God.
This message, while clearly declaring that Christians do soon, just as clearly declares that Christians are not condemned. This seemingly moral inconsistency is not adjusted by blindly supposing that Christians are lost because of their sin. It is adjusted by The higher morality made possible through the death of Christ, which far too few have comprehended or acknowledged, bringing about a union with Christ. Thus, the Scriptures teach that believers do sin, but their sin is different in content and different in alleviation.
The believers sins are sins of the flesh and are not the same sins that come from the sinning sinner that once indwelt him, Satan, but rather are the sins produced when the mind is given to the body to bring about the sins of the flesh. You following so far.
Human experience testifies to the indisputable fact that Christians can remain in union with Christ despite their evident imperfections and sin. This fact must not be slighted.
Christians are now one with Christ, and the continuance of any Christian as such, even for a moment, is final proof that there is some divine provision for their position.
In no sense could it be reasonably be supposed that they are standing in any goodness or perfection of their own. The fact that they are now in Christ is final proof that they are neither lost when they sin nor sinless when they remain saved.
They are, rather, kept through the power of God, and that power is not only directly exercised in their behalf but has been made righteously free to act through the shed blood of the lamb of God.
Sin does not overcome the blood, it is the blood that overcomes sin.
The simplest answer I can give your question is "whom the Father loves He chastens." As a righteous father would do.
A sinning believer will find he will have trouble, the father deals with us according to our understanding, thank God he does not correct me based on anything I do not know. But will correct and chasten me to come to the saving understanding and knowledge that he first birthed in me the moment I believed.

 

[Edward]

The truth came through Christ, his 'law' was pure spiritual 'law', thats just love the creator and Love your neighbours, with no contract attached.

Not 'dont do this, and dont do that'.

What do you mean here? No contract? There most certainly is a contract. It's called the New Covenant and within it are quite a bit of don't do this, don't do that, and do this do that. This is all Christianity 101, what Bible are you reading? (Or not reading, as the case may be...)

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Your question is the same question Christians ask all around the world. Not understanding their Bible and the teaching they receive has caused more confusion and dilution than Martin Luther's time.
Do you understand our union life, understanding that "he that is joined to the Lord is one spirit."
I'm not going to give all the verses you can look them up, I use the King James version.
Does sin break our Union with Christ? This is a fair question, and if it is answered affirmatively, there are two possible positions for the Christian.
He must, at a given time, be either sinlessly perfect or a lost soul, there can be no intermediate ground.
To practice this, however, is to disannul the birthing. Since we believe that all scripture hinges on human beings being reborn with the new father and a new life in them, certainly we must answer this question.
To give a true reply to this important question, the two aspects which must be considered, first, the Scriptures, and second, human experience.
Let's look first at the Scriptures. The word not only implies but directly states that Christians sin. It also presents the cure for such sin, which is wholly different from that provided for the sins of the unsaved.
This idea both directly and indirectly constitutes a very large portion of the epistles of the new testament. The epistles are written to believers only and disclose both the believers union with Christ and his present state before God.
This message, while clearly declaring that Christians do soon, just as clearly declares that Christians are not condemned. This seemingly moral inconsistency is not adjusted by blindly supposing that Christians are lost because of their sin. It is adjusted by The higher morality made possible through the death of Christ, which far too few have comprehended or acknowledged, bringing about a union with Christ. Thus, the Scriptures teach that believers do sin, but their sin is different in content and different in alleviation.
The believers sins are sins of the flesh and are not the same sins that come from the sinning sinner that once indwelt him, Satan, but rather are the sins produced when the mind is given to the body to bring about the sins of the flesh. You following so far.
Human experience testifies to the indisputable fact that Christians can remain in union with Christ despite their evident imperfections and sin. This fact must not be slighted.
Christians are now one with Christ, and the continuance of any Christian as such, even for a moment, is final proof that there is some divine provision for their position.
In no sense could it be reasonably be supposed that they are standing in any goodness or perfection of their own. The fact that they are now in Christ is final proof that they are neither lost when they sin nor sinless when they remain saved.
They are, rather, kept through the power of God, and that power is not only directly exercised in their behalf but has been made righteously free to act through the shed blood of the lamb of God.
Sin does not overcome the blood, it is the blood that overcomes sin.
The simplest answer I can give your question is "whom the Father loves He chastens." As a righteous father would do.
A sinning believer will find he will have trouble, the father deals with us according to our understanding, thank God he does not correct me based on anything I do not know. But will correct and chasten me to come to the saving understanding and knowledge that he first birthed in me the moment I believed.

When it comes to OSAS (once saved always saved) and non-OSAS debates, all I can say right now if that I don't know and must give hope and prayer to God's plan. I've seen some of the debates, and seen many verses given to support both sides. But I have to be content in God's understanding and hope on Him. That said if you would like to continue this conversation I'd be happy to do so, but let's move it to another thread. I don't want to bury the current topic with a debate between OSAS and non-OSAS. With regards to Milk-Drops, I hope that you are right. I'll step aside so you can address him yourself without further distraction. Currently he has said that he disagrees with the idea that a person can walk away from Christianity, and from being a Christian.

 

[Corn Pop]

What do you mean here? No contract? There most certainly is a contract. It's called the New Covenant and within it are quite a bit of don't do this, don't do that, and do this do that. This is all Christianity 101, what Bible are you reading? (Or not reading, as the case may be...)

A new fresh covenant for the entire world. Did Jesus say here are my commandments, if anyone disobeys my commandments its eternal fire.

 

[Corn Pop]

"The pig is also unclean; although it has a divided hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses."

Jesus said what goes in only comes out and i make all things clean, but God still gave that commandment, you are not to eat their meat ot touch them, as its an abomination and violation of God's commandment if you do, just like Adam you are not to eat of the tree. Absolutaly no difference. Believe in every word God's says 'dont do this' then dont eat a ham sandwich, no more bacon and eggs, no more lobster.

It can't be half pie. If were free and can eat a ham sandwich then we are free from all. Cant be one and not the other as a commandment from God is still a commandment.

 

[Edward]

A new fresh covenant for the entire world. Did Jesus say here are my commandments, if anyone disobeys my commandments its eternal fire.

I'm not sure what you mean, Brother. It's a covenant between the Lord and us. It was heavily modified at the time of Jesus, so that a lot of the old stuff like not eating ham and stuff isn't a valid commandment anymore, but the big stuff stands, like the 10 commandments, though they were in fact summarized into two, love God and love thy neighbor as thyself. So it's not a situation where one has to abide by everything in the OT, like some try to say, but there is a covenant, and it is a blood covenant so should be renewed daily like Paul said, I die daily.

 

[Corn Pop]

If death come through one man and Jesus is the ressurection. Its done. Finished.

Christ disciplines those he loves, and that's all mankind thats why mankind and all people have been through some type of suffering, its consequences. If Jesus hates a single human being and would cast them in a literal eternal lake of fire his words are not truth.

He even washed Judas feet, the Most crooked of all sinners, and showed his grace to Paul, the most crooked of all sinners.

 

[Corn Pop]

I'm not sure what you mean, Brother. It's a covenant between the Lord and us. It was heavily modified at the time of Jesus, so that a lot of the old stuff like not eating ham and stuff isn't a valid commandment anymore, but the big stuff stands, like the 10 commandments, though they were in fact summarized into two, love God and love thy neighbor as thyself. So it's not a situation where one has to abide by everything in the OT, like some try to say, but there is a covenant, and it is a blood covenant so should be renewed daily like Paul said, I die daily.

Im going to go through the 4 gospels and find everything Jesus said to do and not to do and write them all down. Not what Paul or anyone else says, just what Jesus says.

 

[Corn Pop]

I dont know why the world rejects Christ, even if they don't believe in him, or think its a fairytail or whatever, surely they still think he was a good dude turning water into wine, raising the dead, healing the sick and all.

 

[Lee2000]

Hi everyone,

there maybe many different reasons why people reject the good news

but as someone pointed out in this topic there are 4 ways the seed is planted in peoples lives and what the outcomes are

however when it comes to people getting more or less of God

I believe everyone has different degrees of born again experiences or encounters

some people have none to minimal experiences and others have strong to radical experiences

i remember my own born again encounter my mate and I were off to the bar to drink alcohol and meet woman a standard weekend routine

but we had to pick up my brother from the airport first as he had gone for a holiday from Australia to NZ for 4 weeks

we picked him up and drove him back to his place and he informed us he was a Christian as prior to leaving for his holiday he had been an atheist as myself all his life

we were all shocked because none of us were religious or attended any church

he preceded to take out his good news bible and preach the good news to his girlfriend myself and my mate

we were still in shock because we had never seen or heard him act like this before

cut along story short he asked each one of us if we wanted to accept Jesus into our lives and we all said no thanks

then he asked us if we died that night that if we knew 100% we would go to heaven

obviously we didn't know, but in my mind i thought if i give my life to Jesus then i can go to the bar and drink and meet women and if any thing happened to me then i can go to heaven lol

i didn't know anything about the word of God or what it said or the context of walking after the Spirit and not fulfilling the desires of the flesh etc

so i said to him ok i will give my life to Jesus

so i said the sinners prayer and he started clapping and said did you know the bible says that the angels in heaven are rejoicing over you

i said ok i didnt feel any different, not that i was expecting too but in my mind i said to my self i dont fee any different i still feel the and as i went to say the word the SAME

i kid you not the POWER and PRESENCE of God fell upon me instantly that i stood up in this incredible power trying to get even more and it was like electricity going through my entire body and that mighty rushing wind in acts that fell upon the 120 was the same mighty rushing wind that was enveloping me at the very moment as i tried to get even more of this sensation and stood up higher i was burned by this invisible heat or fire coming from the ceiling and God spoke to me for the first time and said son you are mortal and i am Holy my presence will kill you so i quickly pulled away

then as i stood there like this brand new baby completely shocked at what had just happened, i could feel this warmth and Gods presence upon me and it has never left me and is the reason why i became a christian and cannot deny that God is not true because my encounter and the experience i had with him was real and i cant deny that because its also my testimony

anyway i am fortunate and blessed to have had such a radical encounter and i am grateful for the the grace of God and sacrifice of Jesus

Ps. ohh i didn't go to the bar that night i started going out sharing the good news its always been my passion ever since lol

Peace

 

[Soul man]

Hi everyone,

there maybe many different reasons why people reject the good news

but as someone pointed out in this topic there are 4 ways the seed is planted in peoples lives and what the outcomes are

however when it comes to people getting more or less of God

I believe everyone has different degrees of born again experiences or encounters

some people have none to minimal experiences and others have strong to radical experiences

i remember my own born again encounter my mate and I were off to the bar to drink alcohol and meet woman a standard weekend routine

but we had to pick up my brother from the airport first as he had gone for a holiday from Australia to NZ for 4 weeks

we picked him up and drove him back to his place and he informed us he was a Christian as prior to leaving for his holiday he had been an atheist as myself all his life

we were all shocked because none of else were religious or attended any church

he preceded to take out his good news bible and preach the good news to his girlfriend myself and my mate

we were still in shock because we had never seen or heard him act like this before

cut along story short he asked each one of us if we wanted to accept Jesus into our lives and we all said no thanks

then he asked us of we died that night that if we knew 100% we would go to heaven

obviously we didn't know, but in my mind i thought if i give my life to Jesus then i can go to the bar and drink and meet women and if any thing happened to me then i can go to heaven lol

i didn't know anything about the word of God or what it said or the context of walking after the Spirit and not fulfilling the desires of the flesh etc

so i said to him ok i will give my life to Jesus

so i said the sinners prayer and he started clapping and said did you know the bible says that the angels in heaven are rejoicing over you

i said ok i didnt feel any different, not that i was expecting too but in my mind i said to my self i dont fee any different i still feel the and as i went to say the word the SAME

i kid you not the POWER and PRESENCE of God fell upon me instantly that i stood up in this incredible power trying to get even more and it was like electricity going through my entire body and that mighty rushing wind in acts that fell upon the 120 was the same mighty rushing wind that was enveloping me at the very moment as i tried to get even more of this sensation and stood up higher i was burned by this invisible heat or fire coming from the ceiling and God spoke to me for the first time and said son you are mortal and i am Holy my presence will kill you so i quickly pulled away

then as i stood there like this brand new baby completely shocked at what had just happened, i could feel this warmth and Gods presence upon me and it has never left me and is the reason why i became a christian and cannot deny that God is not true because my encounter and the experience i had with him was real and i cant deny that because its also my testimony

anyway i am fortunate and blessed to have had such a radical encounter and i am grateful for the the grace of God and sacrifice of Jesus

Ps. ohh i didn't go to the bar that night i started going out sharing the good news its always been my passion ever since lol

Peace

Incredible my dear brother, Woe unto me if I preach not the good news of Jesus Christ. I as well had a radical conversion, I understand that doesn't have to happen and don't preach it. But as you say it is part of my testimony. 1987, father's day I can never forget what Jesus did to help me, I couldn't help myself. I won't go into it all now and steal your thunder, what a mighty God we serve.
That is only the second time I have heard of a similar conversion, the man was already in a bar when it came. He leaped up on a table and began to preach Christ to the best of his ability, unreal. I have story after story from traveling and evangelizing for 30 years now.
Pastoring in a few places as was needed at the time to help, but I'm an evangelist, called from my debouchery of sin to carry the greatest message known to mankind, blessings dear friend.

 

[Lee2000]

hello Brother,

please share your conversion we would all love to hear it and you are not taking any thing away

you are enriching inspiring and edifying the brethren and glorying our mighty King and Savior Jesus

i wish i had have been faithful to my calling as i was also called to be an Evangelist and shared on the streets and at any opportunity

but mostly as you know developing the fruit of Spirit and having a very intimate relationship with the word and our Lord Jesus

i fellow shipped for approximately 3-4 years but then had a devastating incident and eventually stopped fellow shipping and of course backslid

i was fortunate because as you know Jesus never leaves us or forsakes us

so in my new work role Jesus protected me and delivered people into my hand and gave me victory in every situation

i have no doubts or reservations that i would have reaped exactly what i had sown

but over that 27 year period being out of fellowship and only by the grace of God

Jesus has made it clear to me recently he is returning and prompted me to repent fellowship and share the good news

and except him each day

so please share some stories i would love to hear them brother

Peace

 

[Nathan]

If death come through one man and Jesus is the ressurection. Its done. Finished.

Christ disciplines those he loves, and that's all mankind thats why mankind and all people have been through some type of suffering, its consequences. If Jesus hates a single human being and would cast them in a literal eternal lake of fire his words are not truth.

He even washed Judas feet, the Most crooked of all sinners, and showed his grace to Paul, the most crooked of all sinners.

Jesus does not hate anyone. He may have washed Judas feet, but He also stated it would have been better for him(Judas) if he had not been born.

 

[Mozart's Starling]

I feel the world rejects God mostly out of fear and ignorance of his abilities. Think about it, to accept that God is real is to accept that true evil is ALSO real and wants nothing more than to destroy you and mock your Creator. Even if you accept the reality you are left with a choice, God or Satan. Satan being the prince of lies tells you he is the most powerful, and though of course that is a complete lie, he IS rather convincing before you open your heart to God. So acceptance puts you into the most exciting and terrifying choice you will ever make for all eternity, and the enormity of the consequences leads people to denial.