Why The World Rejects God

[Not_Now.Soon]

There is no such thing as one believer receiving more of God than another.
This would be so foolish as to say that a biological father who has birthed a large family has put more of his seed into one child than he has in another.
What the biological father literally does is to place his seed directly into the mother, and a child is brought forth according to that seed.
It is never the father's intention that one child be lesser or greater than another.
Yet, religion promotes the idea that there is more of God in one person, or in one place, or by one doctrine, or by one understanding than there is in another.
Such foolishness as this has caused the children of the world to openly reject and rebel against God.
When a believer is born again, he receives as much God as any believer.
God does not place more of His Son in one believer than He does in another.
Thus there is never any over payment of a debt by God in the Christ life.
When every believer sees that the life he now lives is Christ, it is because he sees that God's one Son has been birthed in him by an act of love from the Father. This is not to take away from the fact that the Christ in every believer will be expressed differently in each believer, for it is Christ in us, as us.

I'm kind of confused between your title and what you wrote. They seem to be different topics.

To the title, I think one of the big reasons the world rejects God is because it is not looking for God. Jesus said this much to His disciples also in the parable of the 4 soils I think Jesus points to this.

To what you wrote, all I can say is I don't know. It's up to God what He puts in each of us. I don't know if it's as fair as you've said it, or if it is less equal. Either way I'm ok it's not knowing. I trust His judgment.

 

[Corn Pop]

The world is just not enlightened. It has knowledge but not wisdom. Think of the nuke, that is very high knowledge, yet it was not wise.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

I can say that a decent chunk of the "world" reject Christianity is because to combination of the Laws, how redemption works, why redemption is there/needed, the origin of life, The origin of the world, many stories within the Bible, come into conflict with what many people have discovered since the Bible's canonization.

Once you get past the base level cultural aspect of Christianity, it starts diverging into what most nation consider very old world philosophy when the world was ran by empires and individual rights weren't a thing yet. just saying its a pretty deep well.

You've addressed a concern I hear a lot, when it comes to God. Reject that God is good, and worth worshiping by the condition of the world. Or reject God because what He's done doesn't make sense. If that's not what you mean Milk-Drops, then I apologize for saying it was. This is just how I've heard these concerns with regard to God.

That said though, I would encourage you to step past these concerns and look for God anyways. God's worth finding.

 

[LovethroughDove]

So does Jesus equal no rules? I'm trying to figure out where all this fits together man.

With Jesus it is about loving him and him loving us back. I do things for people I love and that is the bottom line. If I truly love him, I will listen to what he has said. I care about what he said. It seems like nowadays people just care about themselves (what's in it for me). That is not how it is in a loving relationship. I can't sit back and just let a relationship happen, there is communication and understanding.

So does Jesus equal no rules? Yes and No. It would be like anyone else you know. Example: You went into a relationship where you are exclusive.

You know that person's boundaries and you know what kind of a relationship you are entering into. You can't make a relationship something it is not. There is always an underlying understanding of what is required in that relationship.

 

[Corn Pop]

Many just don't see the parable and rainbow underneath the ink. They get stuck in babel, confusion, there in the wilderness, indoctrinated, still walking through the fire.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

The world is just not enlightened. It has knowledge but not wisdom. Think of the nuke, that is very high knowledge, yet it was not wise.

Was this reply meant for me Kiwidan? I don't think enlightenment is the issue. Separating the difference between wisdom and knowledge is good. But I don't think the enlightenment of the world is the issue of why the world rejects God. I tend to think temptation, sin, and evil are one root cause to not trust our own knowledge or our own understanding. The knowledge we have is not always good and like a drug, once we've tasted it and hold the capacity to act on it, it can remain as a temptation to us.

I can look it up to confirm it, but I'm sure the bible says something to the effect that wisdom is of more value then riches, but also that rightousness is of more value then wisdom. Being Godly, kind, just, and merciful are of greater value then being wise or knowledgable. That's my opinion at least.

 

[Corn Pop]

Was this reply meant for me Kiwidan? I don't think enlightenment is the issue. Separating the difference between wisdom and knowledge is good. But I don't think the enlightenment of the world is the issue of why the world rejects God. I tend to think temptation, sin, and evil are one root cause to not trust our own knowledge or our own understanding. The knowledge we have is not always good and like a drug, once we've tasted it and hold the capacity to act on it, it can remain as a temptation to us.

I can look it up to confirm it, but I'm sure the bible says something to the effect that wisdom is of more value then riches, but also that rightousness is of more value then wisdom. Being Godly, kind, just, and merciful are of greater value then being wise or knowledgable. That's my opinion at least.

It was more a general statement.

Anyhow, I dont believe many people in this world have evil intentions. People do stupid things in this world only because they think its ok or think they are right or think its justified.

Not even a thief would wake up and says there purpously going to do evil that day. Just steal for the reason that its evil.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

It was more a general statement.

Anyhow, I dont believe many people in this world have evil intentions. People do stupid things in this world only because they think its ok or think they are right or think its justified.

Not even a thief would wake up and says there purpously going to do evil that day. Just steal for the reason that its evil.

Shouldn't that cause us worry though? A man who does evil and feels justified, or even that no justification is needed that it was not evil; is a sign that the man does not know the difference between good and evil. That's the great danger that we don't know or don't care what the difference between good and evil is. Our intentions are therefore compromised. Each and every one of us.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

They say power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. I disagree. We are already corrupt. Lack of power keeps us in check from doing too much, either for good or evil. With power there's no holding us back and our corruption shows through

 

[Corn Pop]

Shouldn't that cause us worry though? A man who does evil and feels justified, or even that no justification is needed that it was not evil; is a sign that the man does not know the difference between good and evil. That's the great danger that we don't know or don't care what the difference between good and evil is. Our intentions are therefore compromised. Each and every one of us.

Thats why we have law, but the rule of law doesn't stop crime and people flipping out either does it, so thats also not the solution. Im sure every sub law is covered under 'you shall not flip out', yet people still flip out like abuse/ violence.

Inequality in the world causes it.

And also a civilisation is based on a rule of law, as a civilisation is built on a rule of law everyone agrees to that creates a society or sovereign nation, and each society has different rules they live under and if anyone outside does not abide they get discriminated against and it also causes division, and many laws when established create Inequality.

So we have Inequality and division that cause most problems.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Thats why we have law, but the rule of law doesn't stop crime and people flipping out either does it, so thats also not the solution. Im sure every sub law is covered under 'you shall not flip out', yet people still flip out like abuse/ violence.

Inequality in the world causes it.

And also each society in civilisation as a civilisation is built on a rule of law that creates a society or sovereign nation has different rules they live under and if anyone outside does not abide they get discriminated against and it causes division.

This conversation is almost stepping away from the thread topic. Let me try to back track some of our thoughts here.

You've said that the law is the rule of civilization but it also divides up the people. In this observation you've found two things. 1) the law seperates for a civilization who are just and who are criminal; and 2) that the law is not always justified. With this in mind let's look back to the topic subject. I think it is one reason why the world doesn't look for God. Because not all laws are justified, and God's Laws (many which He doesn't give us the explaination for a law) are counted with a simular suspicion. The difference between God's law and man's law is that God is both sinless and wise.

You've also said in response to man not knowing the difference between good and evil, that that is the reason we have laws. But also that the law hasn't stopped crime. If a person studies the law though and holds it to their heart, I'm sure they don't break the law as often as they would if they didn't know the law. I can't remember if it's Proverbs or Psalms, but it brings to mind a verse saying "blessed are those who study your laws," speaking about the laws of God.

The law is important, but it's not the main concern. Instead inequality and enlightenment are mentioned. With that in mind! would there be any better way for the world to become enlightened outside of studying God's laws? Even with the best thinkers the world has come to know, has any nation excaped the forces of inequality?

I want to bring these up because I want to contrast what you've said so far regarding the issues of rejecting God and stepping away from evil. I think the role of God's laws hold more importance then you're giving them credit.

That said Kiwiden,even though I think very highly of God's laws, and the lessons Jesus and the prophets taught. Don't get me wrong, I think God is the one who saves us. Spreading the good news of God, even spreading the teachings and comandments in the bible are worth doing to help those around us find God.

 

[Soul man]

From CFnets Statement of Faith ;

We believe that the Bible is inspired by God in its entirety, and is without error in the original autographs, a complete and final written revelation from God. reba

 

[Milk-Drops]

The world is perfect for what the Father wants. I used religion as a base for why the world rejeccts God, but there are many reasons.
Sin nature, causes an individual to live for themselves as their own god.

Sin here can mean whatever you want. Its this easily manipulative phrase. Especially since "sin nature" here seems to just be a way of over simplifying non Christian philosophies. Its not that people see themselves as gods or as god, but instead look at that if god(s) don't exist we need to figure out how to run our lives. That means that its a constant learning process and that perfection can't ever be reached, but the model can always be improved.

The philosophy of the masses will never excuse that sin that was dealt a death blow at the cross, "You must be born-again."
Revelation is imparative to the believer, without it there is not much difference in thinking and lifestyle.
Christ revealed is "the gospel," we have no other doctrine. Man has interpreted the word to the point of believers being so confused they will either follow whatever comes down the pike, or adapt an escapism mentally of leaving this world so they hopefully will finally understand truth. The situation in the world is perfect for what the Father is doing, he created all things by Christ and by Him they consist.
This is not the devils world, it's the Fathers schoolhouse.

Ok, it think the biggest divide we have talking is that you clearly have spent a lot of time looking into Christianity, but I've spent a lot of time looking at philosophies outside Christianity while also looking at Christianity. Its a communication barrier more than anything else.

 

[Corn Pop]

Communication barriers is correct. Many societys under there rule of law, that not only is a barrier from others it creates conflict creates discrimination and racism.

 

[Milk-Drops]

You've addressed a concern I hear a lot, when it comes to God. Reject that God is good, and worth worshiping by the condition of the world. Or reject God because what He's done doesn't make sense. If that's not what you mean Milk-Drops, then I apologize for saying it was. This is just how I've heard these concerns with regard to God.

That said though, I would encourage you to step past these concerns and look for God anyways. God's worth finding.

No apologies needed. The view I come from currently is that there could possibly be a power that governs the universe and its could be a god or gods. It could be something we just don't know how to describe or even articulate. My main objection from my view point is why trust that the Bible is the true account and that all of it is true. I understand the statement of faith of the forums and I'm not saying anything bad against those that accept that position. I think many discussion talk about God making sense or why a rule makes sense or not comes down to accepting specific premises before hand.

For example discussing Mosiach law vs New Covenant assumes that God is the authority and we are discussing differences and consistency there. Talking with a Non Christian about various Biblical law systems vs a Non Biblical law system has the hurdle of establishing what would be the common authority. For example the common authority between Christianity and Islam is that of Prophets and the supposed words of their god. So comparing and contrasting is based on a specific figure. When discussing with a Naturalist ( Atheist or any other non Theological ideology) The common authority is lost because one system is based on what we observe and learn from the observation , and one is based on Authority from a supreme law figure. So the hurdle is one doesn't understand where one bases their ideals while the other doesn't recognize the authority of the ideals. Thats the gist of what I'm trying to say. Its almost completely different starting points.

 

[Milk-Drops]

With Jesus it is about loving him and him loving us back.

As a former Christian I understand what Jesus's role in Christianity is, I was more asking Kiwi how Jesus's rules fit into his logic of rules causing problems.

I do things for people I love and that is the bottom line. If I truly love him, I will listen to what he has said. I care about what he said. It seems like nowadays people just care about themselves (what's in it for me). That is not how it is in a loving relationship. I can't sit back and just let a relationship happen, there is communication and understanding.

So does Jesus equal no rules? Yes and No. It would be like anyone else you know. Example: You went into a relationship where you are exclusive.

You know that person's boundaries and you know what kind of a relationship you are entering into. You can't make a relationship something it is not. There is always an underlying understanding of what is required in that relationship.

I think the idea that people care about themselves more now days has more to do with the stressors from our current economy and media. The less stressed and secure a person feels, the more outwards a person is capable of sharing and caring for others. The more empathy they can express. I think Christianity offers people a very stable rule system that are great for forming a rock they can tether to and allow themselves to be more empathetic. Non Christians that adopt an ideology form a similar empathy, but like Christianity its specific.

There is always an "OTHER", Christianity has "sinners" for example. The out group or others don't receive the same empathy but either reproach or shunning. Just some thoughts.

 

[Corn Pop]

There is always a 'other' in any society, be it religion, nation. Because each are based on a set of rules, without a set of rules there is no society or civilisation, so anyone who does not abide by those rules is looked at as a 'outsider', so its discrimination and it causes conflict because societys cash just like we witness nations and peoples clashing. Its all about there own rule of law.

 

[Mike]

Anyhow, I dont believe many people in this world have evil intentions. People do stupid things in this world only because they think its ok or think they are right or think its justified.

Do you have any scripture to support this?

Romans 3:10-12

Please do correct me if I'm wrong, but the crux of your position is that man is basically good, but the "rules" of the church drive them away from God. I agree that some forced rules don't help, but this is taking the onus off ourselves and putting the blame on other men.

Even the best of us seek self and fight for their [illusion of] own control. Yes, there are "random" acts of kindness that can appear to support your case, but the seeds of selfishness run much deeper than isolated acts of good. I don't believe these are so random at all, and they wouldn't happen if they were not prompted by the Lord in those places and times.

It is the Lord who pulls us out of the pit and opens our eyes. Absent this, it is the selfish desires of men that cause people to reject God.

 

[Soul man]

As a former Christian I understand what Jesus's role in Christianity is, I was more asking Kiwi how Jesus's rules fit into his logic of rules causing problems.


I think the idea that people care about themselves more now days has more to do with the stressors from our current economy and media. The less stressed and secure a person feels, the more outwards a person is capable of sharing and caring for others. The more empathy they can express. I think Christianity offers people a very stable rule system that are great for forming a rock they can tether to and allow themselves to be more empathetic. Non Christians that adopt an ideology form a similar empathy, but like Christianity its specific.

There is always an "OTHER", Christianity has "sinners" for example. The out group or others don't receive the same empathy but either reproach or shunning. Just some thoughts.

Are you talking about yourself or Kiwidan being a former Christian, you understand there is no such thing right.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Are you talking about yourself or Kiwidan being a former Christian, you understand there is no such thing right.

Myself, and I do believe and can confirm the existence. I was very involved in my local youth group, wanted to be a preacher for a short amount of time, and fully believed in God. Just a lot of life events had me reevaluate my beliefs and ideas.