Why was Cain's offering not good enough for God?

[EDEN2004]

Gen 4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

Abel was a keeper of sheep, a shepherd.
Abel represents Jesus the good shepherd.
Joh_10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Cain was a tiller of the ground, the ground is the human heart.
Cain represents the work (tilling) of the 10 commandments.
The 10 commandments are used to till the fallow ground of the human heart, driving us to Jesus.
Hos 10:12 Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground: for it is time to seek the LORD, till he come and rain righteousness upon you.

Gen 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

Why did the LORD respect Abels offering? Because he brought the firstlings or firstfruits... Jesus.
1Co_15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Gen 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

Cains sacrifice was the fruit of his ground (his heart).

Gen 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

Why did God not have respect for Cains offering? Because his heart would not allow him to obey ALL of the 10 commandments. Notice what God says in verse 7.

Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
If you doest well - if Cain could have kept all of the law his offering would have been accepted.
If thou doest not well - break one law you are a sinner.

Jesus is the only one capable of keeping the entire law and he did it. The law was designed for Jesus to fulfill it, it was never intended that man would be able to keep the law, the purpose of the law is to plow through our hard hearts and show us that we are sinners in need of a Savior.

 

[Digger]

Are saying that Jesus obeyed for you because you are not capable of obeying God?

 

[craigmn3]

Short Answer

Only blood pays the price of sin, Cain knew that, but didn't want to offer a lamb....so He threw some veggies on the altar and called it good, God did not agree

Cain should have traded for a lamb from Abel and offered a lamb.


As usual its not the action perse, but the heart behind the action. Cain just did care

 

[EDEN2004]

Are saying that Jesus obeyed for you because you are not capable of obeying God?

Yes I am saying that Jesus obeyed for us because we are not capable. If Jesus had not obeyed the law, his blood could not have saved us.

But that was not the point of my post. The point I was trying to make was the "things" each of them offered had nothing to do with God's acceptance of the offerings. In other words if Cain would have offered the exact same offering as Able (the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof), God still would not have accepted Cain's offering. Why? Because Cain's offering came from Cain's heart, and Able's offering came from Able's heart.

Look at the hearts of these 2 men.
Cain's heart was like the Pharisees heart.
Able's heart was like the publican's heart
Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

I hope this makes sense.

 

[FrMattCH]

Abel's offering was well meant and of good caliber. Cain's offering was insincere and half baked and he knew it.

 

[Kidron]

Cain didnt do what was required.
It was a specific requirement, and he didnt obey it.

Its sort of like.
"of all the fruit in the garden you may eat, but do NOT eat the apple on the apple tree".

So, if you eat it, you have disobeyed the requirement.
Same with Cain.
There was a requirement, there was no room for debate, and he obey it.
Eve had the same problem.

A lot of lost people have the same issue with Jesus.
They dont want God's "one way", they want their way, or any other way, as long as they get to decide which way.
Its a pride problem.

 

[EDEN2004]

These offerings are symbols that are teaching new testament spiritual truths all the way back in Genesis.

Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD
Fruit of the ground represents salvation through your own righteousness.

And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof
firstlings of his flock represents salvation by God's righteousness through Jesus.

Again the physical things they offered had to nothing to do with God's acceptance of them. Able's lambs or sheep or goats are no better offering than what ever Cain physical fruit Cain offered. They symbolize the true spiritual meaning of the offerings. Able offered Jesus' righteousness and Cain offered Cain's righteousness. Cain's nor mine or your righteousness is acceptable to God.

Symbolism is how God speaks to His children through the pages of the bible.

Pro_25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

Here are 2 more examples of deep spiritual truths hidden in the plain text of the bible. Does anyone know the meaning of these 2 passages?

Mat_7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

Mat_5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

 

[John O]

According to Hebrew culture and the principle of first fruits that God applies throughout the Bible Cain was required to offer up the first fruits to the high priest of the house ie Adam. Abel offered up the first fruits but Cain only the fruits. The principle of the first fruits is that as it is presented either Holy or leaven (worldly) so becomes the rest of the crop or offering.

In this case Abel offered up the first fruit making his offering acceptable and the rest of his crops become blessed. Cain offered not the first fruits but made an offering from the main crop. The first fruits were not made holy because he kept them for himself and as a result the rest of the crop was considered to be without blessing and honor. (Shane Willard in his series How to read the Bible as a Hebrew explains this much clearer than I have)

Cain knew exactly what he was doing as he had been giving the correct offering for many years. It was mentioned earlier in the thread that it was Cain's heart attitude that caused the offering to be unacceptable and I agree with this. Cain deliberately chose to dishonor his father and God by making the offering the way he did. We do not know if it was a father son relationship issue or an issue between Cain and God either way I believe Cain out of a spirit of defiance that all of us have done (deliberately done the opposite of what we knew was required) failed to provide the offering that he knew was acceptable to God.

I suspect because history repeats itself in us that he did not understand the consequences of his action, got mad at God for being so harsh and rigid when Cain and his heart attitude had been exposed. He could not take the anger out on God but he could take it out on Abel his brother who should have stopped him from doing what he did ie in Cain's mind it was Abel's fault he was in trouble.(It's never our fault someone else should have seen what we were doing and stopped us therefore its their fault not ours, never ours.)

Does this not sound so much like us all when one lie becomes 2 lies which become 10 lies etc Oh how we are so dependent on the grace and mercy of our God.

John O

 

[Sinthesis]

Abel was not sinless, so Abel's offering was not perfectly perfect. It is God's prerogative as to what kind of offering to accept or reject.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
The laws of God don't have retroactive jurisdiction. (Gal 3:17)

Therefore anyone, and everyone, who lived prior to the days of Moses and Aaron weren't obligated to comply with the commandments; which means that acts like idolatry, polytheism, murder, adultery, theft, incest, rape, etc, were immune to prosecution. Those acts were sins yes, but when an act isn't against the law; then you can't prosecute somebody for doing it.

†. Rom 4:15 . .The law brings about wrath; but where there is no law there is no transgression.

In other words: people can't break laws that haven't been legislated. That's a biblical axiom.

†. Rom 5:13 . . For until the law sin was in the world-- but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

What I'm getting at is this: up till Cain and Abel, the only law on the books was the prohibition against eating fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. So what exactly did God refer to when He instructed Cain "If you do well, will you not be accepted"

Obviously the "well" wasn't one of God's laws because He hadn't enacted any yet. The only absence of "well" that I can find in Cain's life was sibling rivalry.

No; it wasn't his offering. The Hebrew word for the brothers' gifts is minchah (min-khaw') which is not a sin offering; it's just a gift-- no different than bringing a bottle of first-class wine or an excellent pastry to a dinner invitation at someone's home.

Abel was an animal husbandman responsible for the family's flocks; which they no doubt counted on for clothing, so it makes sense his gift would be an animal from the herd. Cain was a farmer responsible for the family's primary food source since flesh had not yet been added to man's diet. So it makes sense his gift was produce from the field.

Everybody makes a big deal out of the nature of the brothers' gifts when that wasn't God's concern at all. No; God zeroed in on Cain's character. In other words; God rejected Cain, and that's why He rejected Cain's gift. You can see this same principle at work in the very first chapter of Isaiah.

Now as concerns sibling rivalry, Jesus said to first be reconciled to your brother and then offer your gift. That's just common sense; and suggests to me that dysfunctional families really ought to forget about going to church on Sundays until there's some love in the home first or otherwise their worship will just be a ping like Cain's.

Cliff
/

 

[Elijah674]

Gen 4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

Abel was a keeper of sheep, a shepherd.
Abel represents Jesus the good shepherd.
Joh_10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Cain was a tiller of the ground, the ground is the human heart.
Cain represents the work (tilling) of the 10 commandments.
The 10 commandments are used to till the fallow ground of the human heart, driving us to Jesus.
Hos 10:12 Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground: for it is time to seek the LORD, till he come and rain righteousness upon you.

Gen 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

Why did the LORD respect Abels offering? Because he brought the firstlings or firstfruits... Jesus.
1Co_15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Gen 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

Cains sacrifice was the fruit of his ground (his heart).

Gen 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

Why did God not have respect for Cains offering? Because his heart would not allow him to obey ALL of the 10 commandments. Notice what God says in verse 7.

Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
If you doest well - if Cain could have kept all of the law his offering would have been accepted.
If thou doest not well - break one law you are a sinner.

Jesus is the only one capable of keeping the entire law and he did it. The law was designed for Jesus to fulfill it, it was never intended that man would be able to keep the law, the purpose of the law is to plow through our hard hearts and show us that we are sinners in need of a Savior.

So what the post says is that Cain could not obey God regardless??? It appears that Adam + Eve + Abel & even Cain had been Obedient up to this point of time!

And your post just did an awful thing in this post as 'i' see it, for the N.T. in Phil. 4:13 says that YES I CAN DO ALL THINGS THROUGH CHRIST WHO STRENGTHENS ME!

And [[HIS GRACE??]] 2 Cor. 12:9 Documents that IT IS SUFFICIENT ENOUGH FOR ME. and IS MADE PERFECT IN WEAKNESS!

SO?? 'i' think that I will just try to make do as He says, and friend that IS BECAUSE I LOVE HIM!

--Elijah

 

[WIP]

One thing that stands out in this story is how Cain's offering was rejected by God and yet he killed Abel for it. Who are we to decide what God should or should not accept? We argue all the time about how God doesn't do things the way we think they should be done. That is not our place. How arrogant we can be.

 

[Elijah674]

One thing that stands out in this story is how Cain's offering was rejected by God and yet he killed Abel for it. Who are we to decide what God should or should not accept? We argue all the time about how God doesn't do things the way we think they should be done. That is not our place. How arrogant we can be.

The reason was that the Lamb offering was accepted as Christ's future death as the Lamb of God. And the fruite offering is disobedience.

 

[EDEN2004]

One thing that stands out in this story is how Cain's offering was rejected by God and yet he killed Abel for it. Who are we to decide what God should or should not accept? We argue all the time about how God doesn't do things the way we think they should be done. That is not our place. How arrogant we can be.

Abel represents the first coming of Jesus. Cain represents the Jews. The Jews killed Jesus because he was trying to tell them that their righteousness through obedience of the law was filthy rags. This is why Cain slew Abel. After Abel was killed, God appointed Eve another son Seth. Seth represents the Resurrected Jesus. The name Seth is found exactly 8 times (the number of new beginnings) in the bible.

 

[Sinthesis]

Abel represents the first coming of Jesus. Cain represents the Jews. The Jews killed Jesus because he was trying to tell them that their righteousness through obedience of the law was filthy rags. This is why Cain slew Abel. After Abel was killed, God appointed Eve another son Seth. Seth represents the Resurrected Jesus. The name Seth is found exactly 8 times (the number of new beginnings) in the bible.

Strong's H8352 is also translated "Sheth", so the numerology part is off a bit, but the image of Abel's murder and compensation through Seth reflected in the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ is spot on.

 

[Elijah674]

Strong's H8352 is also translated "Sheth", so the numerology part is off a bit, but the image of Abel's murder and compensation through Seth reflected in the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ is spot on.

Both sons were obediently saved until mature. And then Cain 'still' rejected Christ's offer of Pardon again in person. The third person of satan was about to get his first full/fledged convert as the son of man. He soon killed his brother who remained the son of God until death! We are told that Cain's new DESIRE would be turned over to who, once the sin against the Holy Ghost was consumated?? You don't know? take a guess. or :robot ??

One more interesting note?? God (Holy Spirit) strove 120 yrs. with the pre/flood ones, and the next son of God.... Seth came on the scene about 120 years after Abel was slain by satan's Cain.

-Elijah

 

[EDEN2004]

So what the post says is that Cain could not obey God regardless??? It appears that Adam + Eve + Abel & even Cain had been Obedient up to this point of time!

Elijah,
You, me, Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel nor anyone else in this world can obey God, and these guys were not obedient up to that point of time, nor after that. Anybody who offers God their own righteousness will be rejected....we can't do it. That is exactly what this passage in Genesis is trying to show us. Through out the bible the fruit of the ground represents represents works salvation.

And your post just did an awful thing in this post as 'i' see it, for the N.T. in Phil. 4:13 says that YES I CAN DO ALL THINGS THROUGH CHRIST WHO STRENGTHENS ME!

And [[HIS GRACE??]] 2 Cor. 12:9 Documents that IT IS SUFFICIENT ENOUGH FOR ME. and IS MADE PERFECT IN WEAKNESS!

SO?? 'i' think that I will just try to make do as He says, and friend that IS BECAUSE I LOVE HIM!

--Elijah

My post did not do an awful thing, it just proves exactly what you said. Yes we can do all things through Christ, but we have to come to Christ first. Abel offered Jesus, Cain offered works salvation.

Jesus is on every page of this bible, I am just trying to show you guys how to find him there. I'm sure I am not doing a very good job of it though. The passage in Genesis should be looked at just like these passages:

Mat_7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
What is bread? Jesus the bread of life.
What is stone? The 10 commandments written in stone.
When one of God's children asks for salvation, the father is not going give him a set of rules to follow, he is going to give him freedom through Jesus.

Mat_5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Jesus is the right hand, he was cast into to hell so that the body (church) wouldn't have to go.

The prophecy of Jesus paying our sin debt hidden in the plain text of a passage that most people use to support works salvation.

One of my most favorite passages in the bible:
Pro_25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

 

[EDEN2004]

Strong's H8352 is also translated "Sheth", so the numerology part is off a bit, but the image of Abel's murder and compensation through Seth reflected in the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ is spot on.

Sinthesis have you noticed that there are many cases in the King James bible where there are slightly different names translated for the same person. Here are some examples.
The person Seth mentioned 10 times in the bible.
Seth 8 times. 8 represents new beginnings.
Sheth 2 times. 2 represents Jesus 1st and 2nd coming.

The person Noah mentioned 58 times.
Noah 53 times.
Noe 5 times. 5 represents the Jews.

The person Elijah mentioned 99 times.
Elijah 69 times. 69 weeks of Daniel's 70 weeks.
Elias 30 times. 3 represents the 3 dimensional world.

The person Nebuchadnezzar mentioned 91 times.
Nebuchadnezzar 60 times. 6 the number of man.
Nebuchadrezzar 31 times.

Tell me the King James bible is not the inspired word of God.

The translation differences were put there by God to help us learn!

 

[Elijah674]

Elijah,
You, me, Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel nor anyone else in this world can obey God, and these guys were not obedient up to that point of time, nor after that. Anybody who offers God their own righteousness will be rejected....we can't do it. That is exactly what this passage in Genesis is trying to show us. Through out the bible the fruit of the ground represents represents works salvation.



My post did not do an awful thing, it just proves exactly what you said. Yes we can do all things through Christ, but we have to come to Christ first. Abel offered Jesus, Cain offered works salvation.

Jesus is on every page of this bible, I am just trying to show you guys how to find him there. I'm sure I am not doing a very good job of it though. The passage in Genesis should be looked at just like these passages:

Mat_7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
What is bread? Jesus the bread of life.
What is stone? The 10 commandments written in stone.
When one of God's children asks for salvation, the father is not going give him a set of rules to follow, he is going to give him freedom through Jesus.

Mat_5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Jesus is the right hand, he was cast into to hell so that the body (church) wouldn't have to go.

The prophecy of Jesus paying our sin debt hidden in the plain text of a passage that most people use to support works salvation.

One of my most favorite passages in the bible:
Pro_25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

Christ says that one can & you post no he can't! And I stand by what I had stated in Phil. 4:13 + Christ's WORD in 2 Cor. 12:9 (and you did not read the verses well either!)

But 'i' will give the post lee/way as not knowing 1 John 5:16-17's difference in sin?
1 John 5
[16] If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
[17] All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

And as I have explained before Cain's sin was the ..'and there is a sin unto death'. (note again Psalm's 19:13 & see if you can get anything from this verse for the reason why Cain's sin was fatal?)

--Elijah

 

[Stan53]

Because it wasn't the best he could have offered. It seems it wasn't from the first fruits either. I also seems from his reaction, that he really didn't want to do the offering.