Bible Study Why Work

[th1b.taylor]

[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Mat 28:18[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif] And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying, [/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth.[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Mat 28:19[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Mat 28:20[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif] [/FONT]
These are, perhaps, the most misunderstood and most ignored verses in all of the Bible. Most Christians want noting to do with what we are directed to do in this passage spoken by Jesus. Most commonly the people in churches on Sunday morning are not in the least interested in the Great Commission and will often tell you or anyone else that inquires that they pay their Pastor to cover their responsibility for this duty.


There is a complete laundry list of problems with this idea and I'd like to discuss some of them here. First of all we need to understand what there is to learn in the book of James about the works of the follower of Jesus. Let's begin with an understanding of who Jesus is and not who He was. In John 1:1-3 we learn that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament and in Mal. 3:6 we learn that He never changes. This alone discards all of the New Testament and New Covenant Christian's perspectives, there is not nor has there ever been a change in the guard... so as to speak.


In the Gospel accounts we are taught by Jesus that if we love Him we will obey His commands. Much to the distress of many, wishing to rationalize the Ten Commandments away, the Ten Mosaic Laws, written by the finger of Jesus on stone tablets are ten commands of Jesus and to make understanding them easy, He simplified them into the Two Greatest Commandments. (Matt. 22:36-40) I am not today nor will I tomorrow tell you that you or any other person can live the Commands and Commandments of Jesus, nor has any other man ever done so. The most common mistake made today is the belief that men were once saved or they were given the opportunity to be saved by living the law. In truth, no man has ever been saved by anything but grace and that of God.


Gal. 3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. (NASB) Paul, one of the, very, best Bible Scholars to ever live, having been seated at the feet of Jesus in Asia Minor for three years put it as clearly as it ever need be said, the Mosaic Law is our teacher.


This might seem the long way around to get to the Great Commission but then, there are an awful lot of hard heads in this world that, like myself, do not breath through gills and do not live in the Gulf of Mexico and just like me, you folks need a ring in your nose for a good teacher to jerk on and, inflicting intolerable pain, lead you into the path of righteousness. The Great Commission does, indeed, apply to your Pastor, just as it does also to your Deacons... but it does not loose it's influence there. You have been commanded by Jesus to fulfill this same command. You meet people, every day, that your Pastor will never have the chance to see if you fail to do your duty as the Great Commission points us,.


Duty, there is a word that will lead you, neck deep into heresy very quickly if you're not careful. I will explain to you that I am a slave bought and owned by God and in one manor I owe Him everything but be careful, do not get trapped there! I can work because of that truth and accomplish moving myself straight into the Eternal Death found in the Lake of Fire.


On the flip side of duty to God is love! When my dad married my mother I was ten years old but in a very short time I knew that he loved me and that translated into my love for him. Dad, a military man, had duties that he required to be performed by me but he wanted me to do them not, because he commanded, but rather because I loved him so much that I feared disappointing him. I was not afraid of punishment, punishment was a badge to be proudly worn and I had my rear beat on a good bit at and in school for the things I did there. I and others often bragged about our latest meeting with Coach or the Principal. No, my fear was of the disappointed look on my dad's face and that just killed me because I loved him as much, I like to believe, as he did me. I work for God/Jesus because of that same type of love.


This is a conversation starter and not an exposition of the subject and it is my prayer that I have not understood my Jesus incorrectly and that he will use this to touch your's and other's hearts and that fruitful conversation will ensue.

 

[Eugene]

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Most commonly the people in churches on Sunday morning are not in the least interested in the Great Commission and will often tell you or anyone else that inquires that they pay their Pastor to cover their responsibility for this duty.

I suspect you consider this your commission, and would ask if you have taught any one nation yet, let alone all of them? I'm really asking this to get your opinion of what is really required.

First of all we need to understand what there is to learn in the book of James about the works of the follower of Jesus.

What is the purpose of works? We read in Titus 3:5 "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost." We're also told a reason for works in Matthew 7:20, "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

But Revelation 19:7-8 says, "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints." This righteousness of saints is actually the righteous acts of the saints. There is reward associated with works.

Come to think of it, has any nation been baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost? Paul tells us concerning this present time in Colossians 3:17, "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him."

I'll leave off here for now and thanks in Jesus' name.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
I suspect you consider this your commission, and would ask if you have taught any one nation yet, let alone all of them? I'm really asking this to get your opinion of what is really required.

A little history for your edification; I am about 37 or 38 years into Remitting Relasping Multiple Scleroses. I am alive only because God is not through with me.

Now, to your question, I have led folks on 6 of the continents to the foot of the cross to meet Jesus. I have found the Internet an extremely useful tool for the building of the Kingdom of God. One convert friend of mine, a former Irish Witch that lived in England, is now in Africa translating the New Testament. The Gospel is going forth to all nations, as required.

What is the purpose of works? We read in Titus 3:5 "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost." We're also told a reason for works in Matthew 7:20, "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

You have, with scripture, answered your own question and I agree.

But Revelation 19:7-8 says, "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints." This righteousness of saints is actually the righteous acts of the saints. There is reward associated with works.

There are many, many ways of viewing the scriptures but this verse is future prophecy and does not conflict with the Titus and Matthew passages.

Come to think of it, has any nation been baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost? Paul tells us concerning this present time in Colossians 3:17, "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him."

Your statement here appears to be leading towards the Jesus Only Theology and that is heresy. God is the Triune God.

 

[Eugene]

Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

In the Gospel accounts we are taught by Jesus that if we love Him we will obey His commands. Much to the distress of many, wishing to rationalize the Ten Commandments away, the Ten Mosaic Laws, written by the finger of Jesus on stone tablets are ten commands of Jesus and to make understanding them easy, He simplified them into the Two Greatest Commandments. (Matt. 22:36-40) I am not today nor will I tomorrow tell you that you or any other person can live the Commands and Commandments of Jesus, nor has any other man ever done so. The most common mistake made today is the belief that men were once saved or they were given the opportunity to be saved by living the law. In truth, no man has ever been saved by anything but grace and that of God.

Amen and I agree with this. After your description of you medical history, were you known on other forums as the "Number 1 Bill", or something to that effect? If so I didn't recognize you with the whiskers and hat.

Gal. 3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. (NASB) Paul, one of the, very, best Bible Scholars to ever live, having been seated at the feet of Jesus in Asia Minor for three years put it as clearly as it ever need be said, the Mosaic Law is our teacher.

Agreed.

This might seem the long way around to get to the Great Commission but then, there are an awful lot of hard heads in this world that, like myself, do not breath through gills and do not live in the Gulf of Mexico and just like me, you folks need a ring in your nose for a good teacher to jerk on and, inflicting intolerable pain, lead you into the path of righteousness. The Great Commission does, indeed, apply to your Pastor, just as it does also to your Deacons... but it does not loose it's influence there. You have been commanded by Jesus to fulfill this same command. You meet people, every day, that your Pastor will never have the chance to see if you fail to do your duty as the Great Commission points us,.

Well now, and if you don't mind I will take this a little further. My or your pastor will never lead us into paths of righteousness; it is always God at work in our lives as His workmanship. Psalms 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Now He may use me, you, and others but the glory always goes to Him. As we read in 1 Corinthians 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. I use this following scripture frequently for a multitude of applications, but here in Philippians 2:13 we read, "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

We do read of God having the Apostle John write letters to the seven angels or pastors of the churches we read of in Revelation Chapters Two and Three, but again it was God's work, and of course it was Jesus giving the message to another angel (His angel of Revelation 1:1) which is also a human messenger; of course so glorious that John bowed to him in and was corrected in Revelation 19:10. "And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

Next on this thought of man's designation of "The Great Commission" I read in Isaiah 66:8, "Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children." This is the time I see as the beginning of the birth of nations, and it has not occurred yet in my opinion. Had Israel adhered to Jesus' instructions and received their Messiah I believe it would have two been thousand years ago.

What other command would have been suitable for this present time instead of going to nations? Mark 16:15, "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." Was this done? Yes; Colossians 1:23, "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister."

Come to think of it, has any nation been baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost? Paul tells us concerning this present time in Colossians 3:17, "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him."

Your statement here appears to be leading towards the Jesus Only Theology and that is heresy. God is the Triune God.

I sure hope not, for I do not follow that theology, but again I know that our Father did not die on the cross; Jesus did, and I realize that the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth. I'll leave it here for the time being lest we get going into too many directions at once. I enjoy your thoughts here, and I'm not really experienced with what is, and what is not considered infractions of the rules of debate on these forums, and so I invite the moderators to please delete this post if I am out of order here.

God bless you in Jesus' name.

 

[th1b.taylor]

[/size]

Amen and I agree with this. After your description of you medical history, were you known on other forums as the "Number 1 Bill", or something to that effect? If so I didn't recognize you with the whiskers and hat.

My ID on many forums is th1bill and many from my days on stage still know me as the number 1 bill... so yep and howdy! My wife and daughter like the Stingy Bim Fedra and the beard is a very trimmed up version of my Biker Days, I like it.

Well now, and if you don't mind I will take this a little further. My or your pastor will never lead us into paths of righteousness; it is always God at work in our lives as His workmanship. Psalms 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Now He may use me, you, and others but the glory always goes to Him. As we read in 1 Corinthians 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. I use this following scripture frequently for a multitude of applications, but here in Philippians 2:13 we read, "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

Strong agreement!

We do read of God having the Apostle John write letters to the seven angels or pastors of the churches we read of in Revelation Chapters Two and Three, but again it was God's work, and of course it was Jesus giving the message to another angel (His angel of Revelation 1:1) which is also a human messenger; of course so glorious that John bowed to him in and was corrected in Revelation 19:10. "And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

And again, I agree!

Next on this thought of man's designation of "The Great Commission" I read in Isaiah 66:8, "Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children." This is the time I see as the beginning of the birth of nations, and it has not occurred yet in my opinion. Had Israel adhered to Jesus' instructions and received their Messiah I believe it would have two been thousand years ago.

Here I disagree. After studying Ezekiel 37 thru 39 I see May, I believe it was the 14th, of 1948 as the fulfilling of those Bones of Ezekiel and the birth of your passage. That, in my perspective puts us on the brink of the Persian (Iranian) attack where only God defends.

What other command would have been suitable for this present time instead of going to nations? Mark 16:15, "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." Was this done? Yes; Colossians 1:23, "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister."

I see this as the Great Commission as written by another. The passages in Mark are, by many, thought to be the Gospel of Peter. It seems that the exists some sort of evidence that Peter gave this account to Mark. If so that would make the account no less credible but it would lend to a different rendering of the facts. I suspect we all will remember the life example f the line of people whispering the same secret to the next person and after ten or twelve the story is not even recognizable by the first teller. That will account for the different word structure.

I sure hope not, for I do not follow that theology, but again I know that our Father did not die on the cross; Jesus did, and I realize that the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth. I'll leave it here for the time being lest we get going into too many directions at once. I enjoy your thoughts here, and I'm not really experienced with what is, and what is not considered infractions of the rules of debate on these forums, and so I invite the moderators to please delete this post if I am out of order here.

God bless you in Jesus' name.

I don't believe you're out of order and I thank you for the clarity expressed on this, thank you.

 

[xino]

yes we ARE to go to all nations spreading the Gospel but some people don't.

Some people think it's ridiculous to preach to all nations. But they are forgetting we DON'T have to convert every nationality.
We just have to try our best to convert people.

You go outside and you are bound to find another nationality in your country, preach to him.
Best thing to do is to do it online, online is where you can find ALL nations.