Why would Christ refer to this Gentile woman as "a dog?" Part 1

[journeymanisnothing]

Where did Jesus say that???
I am saying that the very idea you are putting out there is not in the text.
You are presuming what someone understood.
Do you want others to do that to you?
Is presuming someones understanding the right way to live?
Do you ask people what they believe or just assume?
Try to see things from another perspective once and a while.

I understand why the woman at the well was amazed that Jesus even spoke to her and why Peter separated himself from gentiles when orthodox Jews showed up.

for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. Jn.4:9

As long as we agree that people should come to God in humbleness, I'm ok with it.

 

[dwb001]

I understand why the woman at the well was amazed that Jesus even spoke to her and why Peter separated himself from gentiles when orthodox Jews showed up.

for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. Jn.4:9

As long as we agree that people should come to God in humbleness, I'm ok with it.

But this is about misquoting the Bible.
Jesus never called the woman a dog.
Total misrepresentation of the Word.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

But this is about misquoting the Bible.
Jesus never called the woman a dog.
Total misrepresentation of the Word.

κυνάριον, κυναριου, τό (diminutive of κύων, equivalent to κυνίδιον, which Phryn. prefers; see Lob. ad Phryn., p. 180; cf. γυναικάριον), a little dog:

She humbled herself before Jesus.

 

[Charlie24]

κυνάριον, κυναριου, τό (diminutive of κύων, equivalent to κυνίδιον, which Phryn. prefers; see Lob. ad Phryn., p. 180; cf. γυναικάριον), a little dog:

She humbled herself before Jesus.

She could have been puffed up over it, as most women would have been.

But she actually believed that Jesus was the Promised One she had heard of.

Instead of saying what most women would have said, "you're being mean to me, you're not who I thought you were." she had true faith in who He was, and humbled herself, getting exactly what she wanted from Him through her faith.

And He was pleased to reward faith!

 

[dwb001]

κυνάριον, κυναριου, τό (diminutive of κύων, equivalent to κυνίδιον, which Phryn. prefers; see Lob. ad Phryn., p. 180; cf. γυναικάριον), a little dog:

She humbled herself before Jesus.

When did Jesus say "woman... you are a dog"?
Little or not is not the question.
You are arguing the wrong word.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

When did Jesus say "woman... you are a dog"?

By comparing children to mutts for a reason.

 

[dwb001]

By comparing children to mutts for a reason.

A comparison is not calling some one the thing.
"Is like" is not equal to "is".
The entire premise here is incorrect and you just don't want to see the facts.
That is up to you... I am just trying to set the record straight.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

She could have been puffed up over it, as most women would have been.

I've never known any person man or woman who thought being compared to a dog was a reason to feel pride.

But she actually believed that Jesus was the Promised One she had heard of.
Instead of saying what most women would have said, "you're being mean to me, you're not who I thought you were." she had true faith in who He was, and humbled herself, getting exactly what she wanted from Him through her faith.

And He was pleased to reward faith!

She might have heard of the promised Messiah, or she only heard that he had the power to heal. She was Greek and being a gentile would most likely have little to no knowledge of the Hebrew scriptures.
There was another woman who knew about the Messiah, but she was a Samaritan, a "half breed Jew" and Samaritans' were looked at by orthodox Jews with concern ntempt also (Jn.8:48.)

 

[Charlie24]

I've never known any person man or woman who thought being compared to a dog was a reason to feel pride.

She might have heard of the promised Messiah, or she only heard that he had the power to heal. She was Greek and being a gentile would most likely have little to no knowledge of the Hebrew scriptures.
There was another woman who knew about the Messiah, but she was a Samaritan, a "half breed Jew" and Samaritans' were looked at by orthodox Jews with concern ntempt also (Jn.8:48.)

The Samaritan woman at the well was one of the very few that Christ straight out told He was the Messiah, and she was a Gentile at that.

Christ went out of His way to meet this woman, as the Scripture says. He came to bring salvation to the Jews, but He never turned down a Gentile, even going out of His way to reward the faith He knew she had.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

A comparison is not calling some one the thing.
"Is like" is not equal to "is".

Then there's no reason to have mentioned children or dogs.

The entire premise here is incorrect and you just don't want to see the facts.
That is up to you... I am just trying to set the record straight.

The straight record is Jesus compared her request to taking from children to feed dogs.
Since you disagree, explain why our Lord said it.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

The Samaritan woman at the well was one of the very few that Christ straight out told He was the Messiah, and she was a Gentile at that.

Christ went out of His way to meet this woman,
as the Scripture says. He came to bring salvation to the Jews, but He never turned down a Gentile, even going out of His way to reward the faith He knew she had.

I agree. Our Savior knows the hearts of all. He called people sheep, vipers, etc., for a reason and people understood him.

So what is Part 2?

 

[dwb001]

Then there's no reason to have mentioned children or dogs.

So now you know better than Jesus what to say to a person?
Why not let the words of Jesus be the words of Jesus?
Why must you change the words of God to fit your ideas?

The straight record is Jesus compared her request to taking from children to feed dogs.
Since you disagree, explain why our Lord said it.

Our Lord DID NOT SAY IT. (that the woman was a dog)
That is the point I am making.
You started this whole thing on the wrong premise.

And you changed it even again... you are now saying that her request is like...
Before it was... she is like...
Keep your story straight please.

You are like a dog with a bone... did I just call you a dog? NO.
Did I compare you to a dog in a particular circumstance? YES.

You may not see it but the difference is there.

 

[Charlie24]

I agree. Our Savior knows the hearts of all. He called people sheep, vipers, etc., for a reason and people understood him.

So what is Part 2?

Amen, Brother!

Instead of starting a new thread with Part 2, I added it to Part 1, post #40.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

So now you know better than Jesus what to say to a person?
Why not let the words of Jesus be the words of Jesus?
Why must you change the words of God to fit your ideas?

Our Lord DID NOT SAY IT. (that the woman was a dog)
That is the point I am making.
You started this whole thing on the wrong premise.

And you changed it even again... you are now saying that her request is like...
Before it was... she is like...
Keep your story straight please.

You are like a dog with a bone... did I just call you a dog? NO.
Did I compare you to a dog in a particular circumstance? YES.

You may not see it but the difference is there.

It doesn't matter if a person is being comapred to something else once in a particular instance or every day,

I'm asking you now, why do you think Jesus compared het request to a bog being fed?

 

[dwb001]

It doesn't matter if a person is being comapred to something else once in a particular instance or every day,

I'm asking you now, why do you think Jesus compared het request to a bog being fed?

You say it well that her request was compared to a dog being fed.
Finally you correct your error of previous posts.
Glad you are now understanding the difference.

Comparing the request to an emotional situation(giving a pet the children's food) makes it personal and understandable.
Why He used that particular situation is not for me to comment on as to the why.

Do you now understand that being compared to something is not the same as being called something?
Have you learnt that lesson?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Part 2

My prayer is that my position will be understood, This is not easy to explain, and if nothing else, I hope you can at least understand why I take this position. Then we can discuss it!

Any way you look at it this Gentile woman was shunned by Christ to a point. We want to determine why!

In Part 1, I said that the Jews believed salvation was only for them. If you remember in Acts 10, God gave Peter a vision of the "clean and the unclean" Which began the unveiling of "the Mystery" that Paul told us of, how that God had granted the salvation of the Gentiles. But has been hidden from the world, especially the Jews.

Co. 1:26-27
"Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:"

Rom. 11:11
"I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall (Israel) salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them (Israel) to jealousy."

After the vision that Peter received, which was God telling Peter, "don't call unclean that which I have made clean" God was referring to the Gentiles. The Jews seen the Gentiles as "unclean" and dogs not worthy of God.

Now the mystery is unfolded when God sent an angel to guide Peter to the house of Cornelius, who were Gentiles. Notice in Acts 10:45-46,

"And they of the circumcision (Jews) which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,"

When Peter came to these Gentiles to preach, some of the believing Jews came with Him from the Church in Jerusalem. When they seen with their own eyes that these Gentiles were saved, they were "astonished" they were in shock, breath taken, to see that Gentiles could be saved.

So now the Mystery is revealed to the Jews, the Gentiles were also to receive salvation. BUT, God had hidden this from them! So again, the question arises, WHY? Now remember, when Christ met the Gentile woman who came for the healing of her daughter, Christ treated her as an outcast. The Jews at this time believed the Gentiles could not be saved, and Christ did not correct them on this! This is what we are seeking the answer for, why did Christ not correct them at that time, and treated her as an outcast being she was a Gentile?

Here is what I believe.

Christ plainly said, "I have come only to the house of Israel." Christ came only to bring salvation to the Jews, in return they were to accept Christ and proclaim Him to the world. In other words, the Jews had to believe and accept Christ before they could proclaim Christ to the Gentile world. Which was the calling of God for Israel.

Of course we know this didn't happen, the Jews rejected Christ and hung Him on a Cross! Pilate didn't want to do it, and tried every way he knew to stop it, but the Sanhedrin demanded that He be crucified.

But this was God's calling for Israel, that they were a chosen people to proclaim Christ to the Gentile world. They were the only nation on earth who received God's Law, in preparation for the coming Messiah, who God chose to come though this chosen people.

It is my belief that Christ shunned this Gentile woman for no other reason than the fact that she was a Gentile, to keep hidden from the Jews "The Mystery" that could not yet be revealed. That God had granted salvation to the Gentiles.

Israel would not have understood or accepted this, UNTIL they themselves came to faith in Christ.

I agree with you, except we have to remember that some Jews did believe him and that's how the scriptures were and continue to be fiulfilled.
The Jews believed when the Messiah came, he would defeat their earthly enemies and bring peace to this present entire world, but the scriptures never say this. Some Jews still believe if their Messiah appeared today, he would destroy nations hostile to Israel and then begin teaching gentiles about God and then the whole world will live in peace.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Do you now understand that being compared to something is not the same as being called something?
Have you learnt that lesson?

I understand when I heard week after week for years how God needed to kill his Son in order to forgive sins, that I believed it because I checked my brain at the door. (Please understand I'm calling myself an idiot.)

Have you learnt the lesson that Gods' law says sinners are cursed by God for committing sin worthy of death, not for being hanged on a tree?

 

[dwb001]

I understand when I heard week after week for years how God needed to kill his Son in order to forgive sins, that I believed it because I checked my brain at the door. (Please understand I'm calling myself an idiot.)

Have you learnt the lesson that Gods' law says sinners are cursed by God for committing sin worthy of death, not for being hanged on a tree?

No.
And what does that have to do with the topic in question?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

No.
And what does that have to do with the topic in question?

What it has do with is that when Paul says,

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Gal.3:13

He means Jesus was lied about. He means Jesus bore false accusations against himself. He's saying the idea that Jesus was cursed is Untrue.

Paul preached to the gentiles from the OT (1Cor15:3.) When he wrote letters to them and cited the OT, he expected his readers to understand his meaning without quoting a whole chapter.

When Paul directed a congregation to Deu.21:23, he didn't mean that Jesus was cursed without Deu.21:22.

 

[dwb001]

What it has do with is that when Paul says,

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Gal.3:13

He means Jesus was lied about. He means Jesus bore false accusations against himself. Untrue.

Paul preached to the gentiles from the OT (1Cor15:3.) When he wrote letters to them and cited the OT, he expected his readers to understand his meaning without quoting a whole chapter.

When Paul directed a congregation to Deu.21:23, he didn't mean that Jesus was cursed without Deu.21:22.

What does this have to do with Jesus never calling a woman a dog?
Get back to the topic... or have you run out of arguments for your erroneous position?