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Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

Lewis

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Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

The fight over gay marriage may be far from over, but already some conservative Christian leaders are looking beyond the courtroom dramas and the legislative infighting. The trouble they see is not just an America where general support for gay marriage will have driven a wedge between churches and the world, but between churches themselves.

"More than anything else, these developments may signal the fact that those who, on biblical grounds, are led by conscience to reject same-sex marriage, really will be exposed as a moral minority," the Rev. Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and a staunch defender of traditional definition of marriage, told TIME recently. "If so, it will expose a great divide over the authority of the Bible among many Christian churches and denominations  perhaps in a way exceeding any other issue." (Check out the story "What If You're on the Gay 'Enemies List.'")

Ever since Jesus told followers to "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's," preachers have been warning about a clash between "the world" and "the church." But now Mohler is predicting something more, a clash between churches themselves. (Most recently, the Anglican Communion has been paralyzed by debate over the consecration of gay bishops.) Writing on Thursday morning in his personal blog, Mohler laid out his thoughts more clearly still. "No issue defines our current cultural crisis as clearly as homosexuality. Some churches and denominations have capitulated to the demands of the homosexual rights movement, and now accept homosexuality as a fully valid lifestyle," he wrote. "Other denominations are tottering on the brink, and without a massive conservative resistance, they are almost certain to abandon biblical truth and bless what the Bible condemns. Within a few short years, a major dividing line has become evident  with those churches endorsing homosexuality on one side, and those stubbornly resisting the cultural tide on the other." (Read the story "A Gay Marriage Solution: End Marriage?")

Mohler's view is, to a certain extent, shared by Joseph E. Kurtz, Archbishop of Louisville, who leads an ad hoc panel of U.S. Catholic bishops set up to fight gay marriage. He too sees a potential future when a greater acceptance of homosexuality leads to pressure on churches to conform, and even to change their teachings. "There are grave threats that decisions by the courts, legislative actions or regulations could erode religious freedom," Kurtz tells TIME. "With regard to marriage, this implicates the right of Catholics to practice our beliefs. Here we are talking about the bedrock of society, it's not just a belief, it's written on the hearts of every human person."

Unlike the Baptist's stark outlook, however, Kurtz is more optimistic that the fight to preserve a traditional definition of marriage is not doomed  and is actively forming alliances and organizing to shore up the one-man-and-one-woman concept of matrimony. He sent a letter last fall to Thomas Monson, president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, praising Mormon support for Prop 8, the ballot-initiative in California that made gay marriage unconstitutional. That state's Supreme Court is expected to rule on the validity of the amendment soon.

Kurtz concedes there have been wins for supporters of gay marriage lately, but last November's statewide votes against gay marriage in California, Arizona and Florida buoyed him. "It's hard for any of us to have a crystal ball to know our culture society will move," says Kurtz. "The Catholic Church will certainly respond with a commitment to truth and love. ... November is not all that long ago, and I still believe that getting out the message about marriage, with a commitment to both truth and love, will succeed. In upholding the traditional definition of marriage, there is not a desire to punish or hurt anyone. We want to do a better job of communicating our concern for all, for both those who agree, and disagree."

Mohler sees the true church as a body comprised of believers who refuse to give ground on gay marriage. So does the Catholic Church, which has shown no willingness to change its own teachings, rooted as they often are in centuries of tradition. But, except for the November referendums, solidarity among fellow-thinkers has not borne much fruit. And a recent swarm of dire ads warning of a "gathering storm" of gay rights mostly backfired. "Those advocates want to change the way I think," a woman says in one of the most-viewed commercials. Another adds, "I will have no choice." And another warns that she will soon be faced with a choice between "my job and my faith." The ads prompted hundreds of thousands of views on Youtube.com, but they mainly served to show how far removed their creators were from the zeitgeist. The Colbert Report mocked the ads, and countless parodies have sprung up across the Internet at the expense of the ads' grave-faced actors.

So while both men are calling for courage and compassion among their flocks, it's not clear yet whether their message that homosexuals are sinners by definition is resonating beyond their staunchest supporters. Of course, that may be just fine with both men, who see in the future a kind of purifying ordeal that will sort out the true church from the others.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... 55,00.html
a_gay_marriage_0423.jpg
 
Definitely a hot topic and a firestorm of an issue politically. I found the last paragraph interesting stating that Homosexuals are sinners by definition. Personally, I thought we are all sinners?? :shrug
 
We are sinners by definition. However, we need to keep a clear view of what is a sin. If we don't, we won't be asking for forgiveness, and we will be living in sin. The less sin we live in the better.
 
Where I am torn on the issue is biologically. Not that there is any proof at this point in this, but if at some point it is proven that people are hard wired bilogically to be either homosexual or heterosexual, is it still considered a sin?
 
Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

It very well could. Seeing as there are so many denominations out there, so many views, so many interpretations of scripture. It is something to be prayed about.
 
“I came to bring fire to the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! … Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division! From now on five in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three; they will be divided: father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother...†(Luke 12:49-53)
 
Aero,

We are all sinners, and we are all 'hardwired' for lust and sin biologically. It is hard to die to yourself and follow Christ. The churches who do not address homosexuality as a sin are being unloving toward God and others. They are not loving God enough to honor and trust His laws, and they are not honoring the men and women who struggle with this specific lust to give them the Truth and set them free. The same principal applies for all lustful sins to me, not just this one.

I am not saying that all believers who are opposed to homosexuality are neccessairly showing love either, because sometimes it can just be pure vainty and self-righteous condemnation. We should be reaching out, but also sharing truth. We really need to rely on the Lord to show us how. Just my thoughts. The Lord bless you.
 
Adullam said:
“I came to bring fire to the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! … Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division! From now on five in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three; they will be divided: father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother...†(Luke 12:49-53)

You must stop taking the words out of my mouth :lol

Yes we are in for it ! The war is here and will not stop before the end is come. Brother against brother for the sake of the Gospel . Some will choose to be PC and some will choose the Gospel. Human REASON has entered the field of faith. Now people think they can be reasonable and figure this out by talking about it. Ha. Not going to happen. It will split the church.

I can tell you all something. Those who go with the gay marriage thing, will be those in the church who will also take the mark of the Beast. Why? Because the mark starts within you. They who go that way, do not love the truth, but will stay in the church like Judas. Until the time come to betray the brethren.

C
 
Cornelius said:
Adullam said:
“I came to bring fire to the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! … Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division! From now on five in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three; they will be divided: father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother...†(Luke 12:49-53)

You must stop taking the words out of my mouth :lol

Yes we are in for it ! The war is here and will not stop before the end is come. Brother against brother for the sake of the Gospel . Some will choose to be PC and some will choose the Gospel. Human REASON has entered the field of faith. Now people think they can be reasonable and figure this out by talking about it. Ha. Not going to happen. It will split the church.

I can tell you all something. Those who go with the gay marriage thing, will be those in the church who will also take the mark of the Beast. Why? Because the mark starts within you. They who go that way, do not love the truth, but will stay in the church like Judas. Until the time come to betray the brethren.

C


:thumbsup
 
Church against church?
I don't believe so.

Division perhaps?
Again, I don't believe so.

God sifting His wheat?
yep
 
Members of a church too often turn on each other over petty matters. I heard about one church that split over what color the new carpet would be. Some wanted red, and others wanted blue. The church split and many started their own church where they could have the color of carpet they wanted.

Another church where I was a member split because of the pastor and deacons deciding (without asking the church members' permission) to fill in some unneeded windows on the back of the church for better security. I didn't stay there very long because of the bickering, arguing, name calling, and the constant meetings during church time to "discuss" the problem.

So, yes, some churches allowing homosexual marriage will definitely cause problems within churches. Iowa just married it's first homosexual couple.
 
Personally, If the government legalizing Gay Marriage that does not mean that the churches have to follow suit. A governmental Justice of the Peace can be made available to legally marry coupled without the churches involvement. I would imagine that most churches will not jump onboard with this due to how delicate the issue is and the divisions that would be caused if they did.

My point at the end of the day is that just because the governement allows it doesn't mean the church has to condone it. The two can, and more than likely will, be separated.
 
there was a church in south Philly about 20 years ago that had a big problem, half of the church did not want this new pastor and the other half did. It got real nasty even a law suit, and also fist fights, now ain't that real Christian, and it raged on for 2 or 3 years, because the new bishop refused to step and he had half of the church backing him up.
 
It will soon become a hate crime to discriminate . Then it will be unlawful to preach that homosexuality is a sin. When that is law, some will submit and teach that we have to submit to the leadership (forgetting that we only submit when they are not asking us to go against the Bible)

Then some will stand against the law and still preach the gospel and they will be prosecuted and locked up.

Soon , because of PC we will not be able to preach "Jesus is the only way" , because it offends the Muslims and Hindus and atheists. Then that will become unlawful too.

So what will you do? Preach homosexuality as a sin and be locked up, and preach Jesus is the only way and be locked up........................or join the churches that submit to the Beast and preach the watered down gospel ?

You can make a note and stick it on your mirror: Churches are soon going to divide . How do I know ? Jesus said so.............
 
Lewis W said:
Will Gay Marriage Pit Church Against Church?

The fight over gay marriage may be far from over, but already some conservative Christian leaders are looking beyond the courtroom dramas and the legislative infighting. The trouble they see is not just an America where general support for gay marriage will have driven a wedge between churches and the world, but between churches themselves.

"More than anything else, these developments may signal the fact that those who, on biblical grounds, are led by conscience to reject same-sex marriage, really will be exposed as a moral minority," the Rev. Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and a staunch defender of traditional definition of marriage, told TIME recently. "If so, it will expose a great divide over the authority of the Bible among many Christian churches and denominations  perhaps in a way exceeding any other issue." (Check out the story "What If You're on the Gay 'Enemies List.'")

Ever since Jesus told followers to "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's," preachers have been warning about a clash between "the world" and "the church." But now Mohler is predicting something more, a clash between churches themselves. (Most recently, the Anglican Communion has been paralyzed by debate over the consecration of gay bishops.) Writing on Thursday morning in his personal blog, Mohler laid out his thoughts more clearly still. "No issue defines our current cultural crisis as clearly as homosexuality. Some churches and denominations have capitulated to the demands of the homosexual rights movement, and now accept homosexuality as a fully valid lifestyle," he wrote. "Other denominations are tottering on the brink, and without a massive conservative resistance, they are almost certain to abandon biblical truth and bless what the Bible condemns. Within a few short years, a major dividing line has become evident  with those churches endorsing homosexuality on one side, and those stubbornly resisting the cultural tide on the other." (Read the story "A Gay Marriage Solution: End Marriage?")

Mohler's view is, to a certain extent, shared by Joseph E. Kurtz, Archbishop of Louisville, who leads an ad hoc panel of U.S. Catholic bishops set up to fight gay marriage. He too sees a potential future when a greater acceptance of homosexuality leads to pressure on churches to conform, and even to change their teachings. "There are grave threats that decisions by the courts, legislative actions or regulations could erode religious freedom," Kurtz tells TIME. "With regard to marriage, this implicates the right of Catholics to practice our beliefs. Here we are talking about the bedrock of society, it's not just a belief, it's written on the hearts of every human person."

Unlike the Baptist's stark outlook, however, Kurtz is more optimistic that the fight to preserve a traditional definition of marriage is not doomed  and is actively forming alliances and organizing to shore up the one-man-and-one-woman concept of matrimony. He sent a letter last fall to Thomas Monson, president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, praising Mormon support for Prop 8, the ballot-initiative in California that made gay marriage unconstitutional. That state's Supreme Court is expected to rule on the validity of the amendment soon.

Kurtz concedes there have been wins for supporters of gay marriage lately, but last November's statewide votes against gay marriage in California, Arizona and Florida buoyed him. "It's hard for any of us to have a crystal ball to know our culture society will move," says Kurtz. "The Catholic Church will certainly respond with a commitment to truth and love. ... November is not all that long ago, and I still believe that getting out the message about marriage, with a commitment to both truth and love, will succeed. In upholding the traditional definition of marriage, there is not a desire to punish or hurt anyone. We want to do a better job of communicating our concern for all, for both those who agree, and disagree."

Mohler sees the true church as a body comprised of believers who refuse to give ground on gay marriage. So does the Catholic Church, which has shown no willingness to change its own teachings, rooted as they often are in centuries of tradition. But, except for the November referendums, solidarity among fellow-thinkers has not borne much fruit. And a recent swarm of dire ads warning of a "gathering storm" of gay rights mostly backfired. "Those advocates want to change the way I think," a woman says in one of the most-viewed commercials. Another adds, "I will have no choice." And another warns that she will soon be faced with a choice between "my job and my faith." The ads prompted hundreds of thousands of views on Youtube.com, but they mainly served to show how far removed their creators were from the zeitgeist. The Colbert Report mocked the ads, and countless parodies have sprung up across the Internet at the expense of the ads' grave-faced actors.

So while both men are calling for courage and compassion among their flocks, it's not clear yet whether their message that homosexuals are sinners by definition is resonating beyond their staunchest supporters. Of course, that may be just fine with both men, who see in the future a kind of purifying ordeal that will sort out the true church from the others.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... 55,00.html
a_gay_marriage_0423.jpg

This will be a battle between the world's "church" and Christ's true Church, I believe, so, yes.
 
Aero_Hudson said:
My point at the end of the day is that just because the governement allows it doesn't mean the church has to condone it. The two can, and more than likely will, be separated.

Unfortunately, some churches ARE performing same-sex "marriages" and even ordaining homosexual pastors. You can be sure that is one sin those "pastors" won't be preaching against, and they will, of course, avoid all scripture teaching against that sin. Of course, since they're living in sin, how can they preach against any sin?
 
Jon-Marc said:
[quote="Aero_Hudson":1v4p85pg]

My point at the end of the day is that just because the governement allows it doesn't mean the church has to condone it. The two can, and more than likely will, be separated.

Unfortunately, some churches ARE performing same-sex "marriages" and even ordaining homosexual pastors. You can be sure that is one sin those "pastors" won't be preaching against, and they will, of course, avoid all scripture teaching against that sin. Of course, since they're living in sin, how can they preach against any sin?[/quote:1v4p85pg]

Aren't we all living in sin?
 
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