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Will The Antichrist/Beast Rule The Future Great Tribulation?

Truth7t7

Truth7t7

Member
I Don't See The Future "Antichrist/Beast" Ruling As Many Teach And Claim?

Rev 11:1-15 Is A Good Summary Of The Tribulation, The Two Witnesses Will Be In Control, Just Like The Day's Of Moses, Aaron, And Pharoh In Egypt, Same Scenario, "Day For Day" they will stand against the Beast.

Revelation 11:3-6 & 10KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Rev 9:4 The Saved Believers Are Sealed And Protected From The Plagues, The Holy Spirit Seals The Believers Until The Day Of Redemption "Eternity"! Eph 1:13, 4:30.

Ephesians 1:13KJV
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

It Was Commanded Them, God's Instruction, Don't Hurt The Green Food Or Sealed Believers!

Revelation 9:4King James Version (KJV)
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

The Antichrist Has His Seat And Power For 42 Months Rev 13:5 Or 1260 Days, So Do The Two Witnesses Rev 11:3 , Who Will Stand As Moses And Aaron Did Against Pharoh, "Day For Day"!

Gotta Clean The Ole Brain Out From The False Teachings In Propaganda, The Left Behind Series, Movies, ETC, False Deception!

Revelation 3:9-13 Paints A good Picture Of The Church In The Tribulation, Hope Ya Get It!

Revelation 3:9-13KJV
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

God's protection during the Hour of Temptation, As Seen In Isaiah 26:20-21, Just Like the "Passover" in Egypt.

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Were The Hebrews Living In Fear During The Plagues In Egypt?

Exodus 8:22KJV
And I will sever in that day the land of Goshen, in which my people dwell, that no swarms of flies shall be there; to the end thou mayest know that I am the Lord in the midst of the earth.

Exodus 9:26KJV
Only in the land of Goshen, where the children of Israel were, was there no hail.

Isaiah 26:3KJV
Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.

Many False Fear Preachers & Teachers Keep Silent On The "Two Witnesses" Seen In Revelation Chapter 11, And Silenced Also Is The Fact That Only Those Unsaved/Unsealed Will Be Affected By The Plagues As Seen Commanded In Revelation 9:4.

"Many Are Misled By False Teaching", That Many Will Have To Receive The Mark Or Worship The Beast, Refusal Will Be Death/Beheaded?

100% False, Those That Receive The Future Mark And Worship Of The Beast, "They Will Be Deceived Into Doing This", By The False Miracles Rev 19:20 Describes This!

Revelation 19:20KJV
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

"Open Your Ears"!

If any person tries to harm/hurt the believer, they in return will be harmed/hurt "God's Word"!

In this truth lives the faith and patience of the saints, believe it, God's Not A Liar!

Revelation 13:9-10KJV
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Will There Be Tribulation Martyrs For The Glory Of The Lord Jesus Christ, "Absolutely" Those That Are Chosen To Be. Just As There Are Martyrs Of The Past And Present.

The Lord Jesus Christ Will Be In Control Of "The Future Great Tribulation", Just As God, Moses, And Aaron Were In Control Of Egypt.

1 Corinthians 10:13KJV
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Jesus Christ Is The Lord!

Trut7t7
 
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Truth7t7 said:
"Many Are Misled By False Teaching", That Many Will Have To Receive The Mark Or Worship The Beast, Refusal Will Be Death/Beheaded?

100% False, Those That Receive The Future Mark And Worship Of The Beast, "They Will Be Deceived Into Doing This", By The False Miracles Rev 19:20 Describes This!
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How then do you explain Rev 6:9-11; 13:15 and Rev 20:4. It's true that no one will be able to buy or sale without the mark of the beast and many will be deceived as they have not the knowledge or the love of truth. Jesus gave strong warning of what happens to those who take the mark of the beast in Rev 14:6-12. No one will be without excuse as the Gospel will be preached in all the world until the return of Christ.

Revelation 11

Zechariah 4:1-6; 4:11-14 explains that these two witnesses are the word of God in all power and might and the Holy Spirit which is the oil that is poured out on those who God anoints with His Holy Spirit. There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit that are one and three that bear witness in earth as being the Holy Spirit, the word and the blood of Jesus and these three agree in one, 1 John 5:7, 8. Only God can give power to act on His word as the Holy Spirit and Jesus bare witness to Gods power and authority especially through signs and wonders.

God exercises His power and authority through those of His great commission of Matthew 28:18-20 who are sealed by the Holy Spirit, 2 Corinthians 1:22, who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. The sackcloth represents the anguish of Gods servants as they remain humbled before the Lord while baring witness to Gods wrath on the unrighteous as these witnesses go forth continuing to preach to the nations.

Zechariah speaks of two olive trees, but only one candlestick in the Old Testament. In this study we read there are two candlesticks. The two olive trees are the two anointed ones as being the two witnesses that are the Holy Spirit whom discerns and confirms the word of God in us by teaching us all truths, John 14:26, and Jesus being the light that shines in darkness as being the word made flesh to walk among us, John 1:1-5.

John is given the understanding that the two witnesses are in comparison to the two candlesticks and two olive trees, which if you read Zechariah Chapter 4 it explains that the golden candlestick is God. The seven lamps with the seven pipes that holds the oil (anointing) is that of the seven Spirits of God given to His Church: wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, reverence, might and Spirit of the Lord, Isaiah 11:2.

The two olive trees are to groups of people. One group being natural Israel (Old Testament) as a remnant according to the election of grace have been saved as in the 144,000 taken from the twelve tribes of Israel that remained faithful to God up to a thousand generations thereafter that remain faithful, 1 Chronicles 16:13-17. The other being Gentiles (New Testament) grafted into the branch by that same grace of God that have been washed in the blood of the Lamb and sealed by His Holy Spirit, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10; 2 Corinthians 1:22; Romans Chapter 11. The two witnesses have always been those who of faith have stood by God and His law in the Old Testament and those of faith who stand by God and Jesus under the dispensation of grace in the New Testament.

The Disciples were sent out to preach to the lost sheep of Israel, Matthew 10:5, 6 and Paul to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21, and so the same with these two witnesses throughout the generations as being two groups, one taking the Gospel to the lost sheep of Israel and the other group taking the Gospel to the Gentiles until Christ returns. They will be persecuted to death as Jesus was and all the martyr's before them and their bodies will lay in the street for three and a half days and then the Spirit of life from God will enter them and they will be caught up to heaven in a cloud, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. This will all occur during the seventh trumpet sounding as I believe all events during this time will happen quickly like 1 Corinthians 15:52 says in a twinkling of an eye we will all be changed and then caught up to Jesus during the seventh trumpet call.
 
for_his_glory said:
How then do you explain Rev 6:9-11; 13:15 and Rev 20:4. It's true that no one will be able to buy or sale without the mark of the beast and many will be deceived as they have not the knowledge or the love of truth. Jesus gave strong warning of what happens to those who take the mark of the beast in Rev 14:6-12. No one will be without excuse as the Gospel will be preached in all the world until the return of Christ.

Revelation 11

Zechariah 4:1-6; 4:11-14 explains that these two witnesses are the word of God in all power and might and the Holy Spirit which is the oil that is poured out on those who God anoints with His Holy Spirit. There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit that are one and three that bear witness in earth as being the Holy Spirit, the word and the blood of Jesus and these three agree in one, 1 John 5:7, 8. Only God can give power to act on His word as the Holy Spirit and Jesus bare witness to Gods power and authority especially through signs and wonders.

God exercises His power and authority through those of His great commission of Matthew 28:18-20 who are sealed by the Holy Spirit, 2 Corinthians 1:22, who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. The sackcloth represents the anguish of Gods servants as they remain humbled before the Lord while baring witness to Gods wrath on the unrighteous as these witnesses go forth continuing to preach to the nations.

Zechariah speaks of two olive trees, but only one candlestick in the Old Testament. In this study we read there are two candlesticks. The two olive trees are the two anointed ones as being the two witnesses that are the Holy Spirit whom discerns and confirms the word of God in us by teaching us all truths, John 14:26, and Jesus being the light that shines in darkness as being the word made flesh to walk among us, John 1:1-5.

John is given the understanding that the two witnesses are in comparison to the two candlesticks and two olive trees, which if you read Zechariah Chapter 4 it explains that the golden candlestick is God. The seven lamps with the seven pipes that holds the oil (anointing) is that of the seven Spirits of God given to His Church: wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, reverence, might and Spirit of the Lord, Isaiah 11:2.

The two olive trees are to groups of people. One group being natural Israel (Old Testament) as a remnant according to the election of grace have been saved as in the 144,000 taken from the twelve tribes of Israel that remained faithful to God up to a thousand generations thereafter that remain faithful, 1 Chronicles 16:13-17. The other being Gentiles (New Testament) grafted into the branch by that same grace of God that have been washed in the blood of the Lamb and sealed by His Holy Spirit, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10; 2 Corinthians 1:22; Romans Chapter 11. The two witnesses have always been those who of faith have stood by God and His law in the Old Testament and those of faith who stand by God and Jesus under the dispensation of grace in the New Testament.

The Disciples were sent out to preach to the lost sheep of Israel, Matthew 10:5, 6 and Paul to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21, and so the same with these two witnesses throughout the generations as being two groups, one taking the Gospel to the lost sheep of Israel and the other group taking the Gospel to the Gentiles until Christ returns. They will be persecuted to death as Jesus was and all the martyr's before them and their bodies will lay in the street for three and a half days and then the Spirit of life from God will enter them and they will be caught up to heaven in a cloud, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. This will all occur during the seventh trumpet sounding as I believe all events during this time will happen quickly like 1 Corinthians 15:52 says in a twinkling of an eye we will all be changed and then caught up to Jesus during the seventh trumpet call.
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Jesus Christ Will protect the sealed believers as shown In the OP, the plagues fall on the unsealed.

Those that take the mark of the beast are deceived into this, in the KJV revelation 13:15 states "Should Be Killed"

You disregard the "Two Witnesses" as being literal prophets returned, and bringing literal plagues, with literal bodies that lie in a street dead, your concept of "Symbolic Allegory" is in error as the scripture teaches literal.

The "Two Witnesses" are the focal point of God's power during the entire tribulation, just as Moses And Aaron stood before Pharaoh of Egypt.

They will bring all plagues as often as they will, the world will be tormented, seeking death and won't be able to die, while the sealed believers are protected.

Do you believe the plagues seen in Exodus were literal?
 
I already agreed with you that those who are in Christ and still alive during God's wrath will be kept from it falling on them. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise as this will be a great time of patience of the saints as they keep faith as they endure until the end when Christ returns, Rev 14:6-12; Ephesians 1:3-14.

Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Should be killed are those who have the knowledge of truth and the love of God in them who refuse the mark of the beast as Christ warned us to flee from it.

Who and where do these two witness you believe to be prophets come from as John 3:13 Jesus makes it very clear that no one other then He has ascended up to heaven.

Every plague in scripture Exodus to Rev comes directly from God sending them forth not man.
 
for_his_glory said:
I already agreed with you that those who are in Christ and still alive during God's wrath will be kept from it falling on them. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise as this will be a great time of patience of the saints as they keep faith as they endure until the end when Christ returns, Rev 14:6-12; Ephesians 1:3-14.

Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Should be killed are those who have the knowledge of truth and the love of God in them who refuse the mark of the beast as Christ warned us to flee from it.

Who and where do these two witness you believe to be prophets come from as John 3:13 Jesus makes it very clear that no one other then He has ascended up to heaven.

Every plague in scripture Exodus to Rev comes directly from God sending them forth not man.
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Do you believe Moses And Aaron Were Literal Human Men?

Do you believe they literally stood in Egypt against Pharoh?
 
Truth7t7 said:
Do you believe Moses And Aaron Were Literal Human Men?

Do you believe they literally stood in Egypt against Pharoh?
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Yes and yes, but they too sleep in their graves until Christ returns as no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven, John 3:13. After we die the only thing that returns back to God is the very breath/spirit he gave us to make us a living soul, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7.
 
for_his_glory said:
Yes and yes, but they too sleep in their graves until Christ returns as no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven, John 3:13. After we die the only thing that returns back to God is the very breath/spirit he gave us to make us a living soul, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7.
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Do you believe Enoch & Elijah died physical deaths?

Where are they presently?

Genesis 5:24KJV
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

2 Kings 2:11KJV
And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

You believe Moses And Aaron were literal historical figures?

However you deny in two literal future "Prophets" that the scripture below identifies as men having bodies that die and lay in a street?

The scripture clearly states "They", "Them", "Their" personal pronouns?

The people of the world will see "Their Dead Bodies"?

Why would you disregard the literal shown for symbolic allegory?

Revelation 11:3-15KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
 
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Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Does not say Enoch was taken up to heaven, but that he was only translated that he should not see death at that particular time of his life and that he was not found. Should not see death means since Enoch walked with God he would not see the second death, Rev 20:6, but only that of the first death, Hebrews 9:27, as all his days were three hundred and sixty as he died, but no one knows where.

2Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (Heaven here means atmosphere, first heaven) Elijah was taken up by the whirlwind into the first heaven and transported to another location on Earth. God did not see fit in His purpose to reveal his whereabouts.

Elijah, having ascended into the air by a whirlwind was carried away out of sight beyond the horizon. Several years after he was taken away King Jehoram received a letter from him. 2 Chronicles 21 there came writing to Jehoram from Elijah the prophet. Now the wickedness of Jehoram, for which he was being rebuked in the letter, took place after Elijah was taken away, yet the letter speaks of these things as past events, and the punishment to come upon him as yet future. So the idea of some, that Elijah wrote the letter before he was removed by the whirlwind, is proved wrong.
 
for_his_glory said:
Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Does not say Enoch was taken up to heaven, but that he was only translated that he should not see death at that particular time of his life and that he was not found. Should not see death means since Enoch walked with God he would not see the second death, Rev 20:6, but only that of the first death, Hebrews 9:27, as all his days were three hundred and sixty as he died, but no one knows where.

2Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (Heaven here means atmosphere, first heaven) Elijah was taken up by the whirlwind into the first heaven and transported to another location on Earth. God did not see fit in His purpose to reveal his whereabouts.

Elijah, having ascended into the air by a whirlwind was carried away out of sight beyond the horizon. Several years after he was taken away King Jehoram received a letter from him. 2 Chronicles 21 there came writing to Jehoram from Elijah the prophet. Now the wickedness of Jehoram, for which he was being rebuked in the letter, took place after Elijah was taken away, yet the letter speaks of these things as past events, and the punishment to come upon him as yet future. So the idea of some, that Elijah wrote the letter before he was removed by the whirlwind, is proved wrong.
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Your claims of Enoch having died a physical death, and Elijah was transported to some other place on earth?

100% A Fairy tale of Man's adding to the scripture.

At no place does it state your claims, or even hint at this in suggestion.

100% your interpretation, adding something not seen.

Just as you have removed "Two Literal Prophets" in Revelation 11:3-15, that have physical bodies that will die, and lay in a literal street in Jerusalem, as the world will watch these literal physical bodies rise, and fear.

Symbolic allegory as you see it, as the truth of a physical literal account is removed.

Add To Scripture, regarding Enoch & Elijah

Remove From Scripture, "Two Literal Prophets"

Revelation 22:18-19
 
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Truth7t7 said:
100% A Fairy tale of Man's adding to the scripture.

At no place does it state your claims, or even hint at this in suggestion.

100% your interpretation, adding something not seen.

Add To Scripture, regarding Enoch & Elijah

Remove From Scripture, "Two Literal Prophets"

Revelation 22:18-19
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Let's tone down the rhetoric and accusations and show a bit of respect for our brothers and sisters in Christ.

This isnt a battlefield, it's a house of civil discussion.

Thanks.
 
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

Sorry, I can not get past these scriptures of who the two witnesses are being the word (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit that are found in us as we who are of Christ through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit will continue to take the Gospel out to the world until Christ returns. I already explained the two olive trees and the two candlesticks and stand by what scripture teaches and not what men assume to be truth.

2 Chronicles Chapter 21 - Jehoram, being the son of Jehoshaphat, was 32 when he began his reign in Israel. He married Ahab's daughter and was a wicked king who reigned for eight years. According to scripture Elijah was taken up in a whirlwind, 2 Kings 2:11-13. The heaven Elijah went up to was only the first heaven being the atmosphere as there are three heavens described in scripture as the throne of God is in the third heaven. A whirlwind can only happen within the atmosphere of the first heaven. During the reign of Jehoram he received a letter from Elijah, 2 Chronicles 21:12-15. How could he receive a letter from Elijah if he was with God in the third heaven? Elijah being caught up to heaven is the same as Phillip being caught up in the first heaven and carried thirty miles away, Acts 8:39, 40. The only difference is that when the fifty men searched for Elijah they could not find him as he was translated further than their search. Phillip was found within the thirty mile radius where he was translated to.

Elijah lived during the time of King Ahab in 9th century B.C. Some people thought that Jesus was Elijah come back, but Jesus made it clear that John the Baptist is the Elijah that was promised to come before the great and terrible day of the Lord, Malachi 4:5, Luke 1:16, 17.

Enoch died as per what Paul said In Hebrews 11:13 after speaking about all these men of faith that they all died in faith and never received the promise of heaven as one of the promises was a heavenly country, vs. 16. In Genesis 5:21-24 Enoch lived to be 365 years old and God took him. This is the same phrase in Psalms 37:36; 39:13; Matthew 2:18 to name a few that means they have passed away or would eventually die.

Psalms 89:48 David asked a question as he knew Enoch was dead in his grave. The words should not see death means that of the second death, John 8:51; 11:26; Rev 20:14, 15.

Based on Hebrews 9:27; 11:13; Romans 5:12-14 and all the scriptures I have given, especially John 3:13, no one has ever gone up to the third heaven, but only Christ. It's only man assuming without proof that say Elijah and Enoch were taken up to the third heaven where God sits on His throne. Scripture only says "they were not found".
 
There is room for the same passage to have concrete, literal meaning, and to also have meanings that are, symbolic, allegorical, figurative, Spiritual, etc.

When God shows us one thing, it's great!
Let's not close our ears to the Spirit showing us something else, too
 
Razeontherock said:
There is room for the same passage to have concrete, literal meaning, and to also have meanings that are, symbolic, allegorical, figurative, Spiritual, etc.

When God shows us one thing, it's great!
Let's not close our ears to the Spirit showing us something else, too
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If God shows us one thing should it not be the Holy Spirit that confirms God's word and not show us something else? There is a lot of types, shadows, likened too, literal and Spiritual and by God's Holy Spirit will confirm that of what God wants us to learn.
 
for_his_glory said:
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

Sorry, I can not get past these scriptures of who the two witnesses are being the word (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit that are found in us as we who are of Christ through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit will continue to take the Gospel out to the world until Christ returns. I already explained the two olive trees and the two candlesticks and stand by what scripture teaches and not what men assume to be truth.

2 Chronicles Chapter 21 - Jehoram, being the son of Jehoshaphat, was 32 when he began his reign in Israel. He married Ahab's daughter and was a wicked king who reigned for eight years. According to scripture Elijah was taken up in a whirlwind, 2 Kings 2:11-13. The heaven Elijah went up to was only the first heaven being the atmosphere as there are three heavens described in scripture as the throne of God is in the third heaven. A whirlwind can only happen within the atmosphere of the first heaven. During the reign of Jehoram he received a letter from Elijah, 2 Chronicles 21:12-15. How could he receive a letter from Elijah if he was with God in the third heaven? Elijah being caught up to heaven is the same as Phillip being caught up in the first heaven and carried thirty miles away, Acts 8:39, 40. The only difference is that when the fifty men searched for Elijah they could not find him as he was translated further than their search. Phillip was found within the thirty mile radius where he was translated to.

Elijah lived during the time of King Ahab in 9th century B.C. Some people thought that Jesus was Elijah come back, but Jesus made it clear that John the Baptist is the Elijah that was promised to come before the great and terrible day of the Lord, Malachi 4:5, Luke 1:16, 17.

Enoch died as per what Paul said In Hebrews 11:13 after speaking about all these men of faith that they all died in faith and never received the promise of heaven as one of the promises was a heavenly country, vs. 16. In Genesis 5:21-24 Enoch lived to be 365 years old and God took him. This is the same phrase in Psalms 37:36; 39:13; Matthew 2:18 to name a few that means they have passed away or would eventually die.

Psalms 89:48 David asked a question as he knew Enoch was dead in his grave. The words should not see death means that of the second death, John 8:51; 11:26; Rev 20:14, 15.

Based on Hebrews 9:27; 11:13; Romans 5:12-14 and all the scriptures I have given, especially John 3:13, no one has ever gone up to the third heaven, but only Christ. It's only man assuming without proof that say Elijah and Enoch were taken up to the third heaven where God sits on His throne. Scripture only says "they were not found".
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I can't get past the fact of scripture in the "Personal Pronoun's" used to describe these "Two Witnesses"?

"They" "Their" "Them"?

I see a literal world, a literal Holy city Jerusalem, a literal 42 months in earthly time, literal plagues, literal bodies in a literal street, a literal world rejoicing over their death, literal gifts exchanged, literal human eyes watching their raising to heaven, a literal earthquake in a literal earth, literal fear from a literal world?

That's a whole bunch of literal thrown away, to state this all represents the "Word" and "Holy Spirit" living in the believer?

Revelation 11:2-15KJV
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
 
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Of course its all literal. That which is Spiritual is literal in all who believe and walk in obedience to God's commands.
 
Truth7t7 said:
Don't you feel quoting the poster is fair when engaged in discussion?

You have excluded my post you are responding to?
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Sorry about that.
Everyone my post #16 is in responce to Truth7t7 post # 15. Sorry if there was any confusion
 
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