Will the Earth get Old or will it be Burned Up?

[Drew]

You haven't got clear arguments at all.

Please identify any statement I have made, or anyposition that I have adopted, which I have not supported, or supported in a manner that you think is unclear. I will respond.

All you do is symbolize everything to suit your fancy.

Of course, you have no way of knowing this. It is interesting that you are doing what so many other posters do - speculate about motivations and the inner workings of someone's mind, thing you cannot possibly have access to. And in so doing, so you leave clearly articulated challenges to your position entirely untouched. Why are you speculating about my motives - that I "symbolize things to suit my fancy" when my argument makes it clear that the text itself, seen in light of history, makes the case in and of itself? Isaiah makes prophecies about the fall of Babylon to the Persians - I did not make this up, blame Isaiah for that. He used language about "stars falling the moon not shining its light" to characterize the fall of Babylon. Again, this is not "my fancy", it is what Isaiah writes. And the historical record shows that Babylon did indeed fall.

Now tell me, where in this have I super-imposed "my own fancy"?

I have no interest in arguing with someone that can't even take a simple scriptural statement at face value.

Do you take this statement at face value?:

For you will go out with joy
And be led forth with peace;
The mountains and the hills will break forth into shouts of joy before you,
And all the trees of the field will clap their hands.

 

[Free]

justvisiting,

Something to think about:

It seems to me to be inconsistent to believe that God created everything and declared it all good and also believe that Jesus' resurrection only provides redemption for man (who caused the fall) and not for the rest of creation.

 

[justvisiting]

justvisiting,

Something to think about:

It seems to me to be inconsistent to believe that God created everything and declared it all good and also believe that Jesus' resurrection only provides redemption for man (who caused the fall) and not for the rest of creation.

Are you sure you are reading my post? I have no problem with Creation being made new. I noticed Tina did that once before. Sometimes our quotes are put in the middle of someone else's arguments, and they think we are the one's that wrote it. I think there will be a new heaven and a new earth.
In fact, if you are referring to redemption. We won't even have the same bodies. We will be as the angels...not angels...but as the angels...flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
Mar 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
Sounds like that is totally...new. As for Jesus body on earth, AFTER HE WAS RESURRECTED...THAT IS NOT THE BODY WE SHALL SEE HIM IN AT ALL. Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
I don't argue with Drew because it's impossible to use scripture with someone that symbolizes practically everything, especially things that should be taken literally. Is there symbolism in scripture, of course, but the vast majority of the time things can be taken more at face value.
I think there are a lot of things that can be taken literally in Revelations, especially when it explains what they represent, right in the book. I don't need to go back to Edom, to know the promises of Daniel are referring to the future. Honestly, I consider preterism...heretical...that's my opinion.

 

[Free]

Are you sure you are reading my post? I have no problem with Creation being made new. I noticed Tina did that once before. Sometimes our quotes are put in the middle of someone else's arguments, and they think we are the one's that wrote it. I think there will be a new heaven and a new earth.

Yeah, I'm reading your post. I am referring to how Jesus' body didn't even see decay--there was no destruction and then a re-creation. He is the first fruits of what is to come and to what is indeed already in process in believers.

In fact, if you are referring to redemption. We won't even have the same bodies. We will be as the angels...not angels...but as the angels...flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

No, we will have the same bodies, just like Jesus. They will be flesh and blood but they will be made incorruptible. What Paul meant by flesh and blood not inheriting the kingdom of God is simply a reference to the way we are now, that is, corruptible and sinful. That is what the context would indicate.

Mar 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Jesus is making a statement about marriage and not at all saying what kind of body we will have.

As for Jesus body on earth, AFTER HE WAS RESURRECTED...THAT IS NOT THE BODY WE SHALL SEE HIM IN AT ALL.

On the contrary, it is the body he has and will have when he returns. There is nothing to indicate otherwise. It would also seem that we will have the same body as he. In fact, it would be very odd that he would now have a different body than he did or that we will have a different body then him.

I don't argue with Drew because it's impossible to use scripture with someone that symbolizes practically everything, especially things that should be taken literally. Is there symbolism in scripture, of course, but the vast majority of the time things can be taken more at face value.
I think there are a lot of things that can be taken literally in Revelations, especially when it explains what they represent, right in the book.

But of course everything must be understood in the times that these things were written and apocalyptic language is typically very symbolic. Being apocalyptic, there is still much in Revelation that isn't explained and I don't see how we can be so sure of the meanings of the same type of language being used elsewhere in Scripture.

 

[Drew]

I don't argue with Drew because it's impossible to use scripture with someone that symbolizes practically everything, especially things that should be taken literally. Is there symbolism in scripture, of course, but the vast majority of the time things can be taken more at face value.

But I have not arbitrarily taken the position I have taken - I have grounded it in the scriptures and what we know about history.

Since you ignore my arguments, and since you are clearly motivated to undermine them if that were possible, I suggest that the reader will discern a reason for your silence other than the one you have stated.

 

[justvisiting]

Well Free
Apparently we differ more than I thought. I'm not looking for a body that looks anything like this one. Mine is going to be new and have nothing to do with flesh and blood.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Well, if you want to keep looking like what you do that's fine with me. Me...I'm going to be glorious. That's a promise from God.
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be(you are saying we shall appear as we are but in an incorruptible body): but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Also, to remind you. John was witness of the resurrection of Christ...and had seen the body of Jesus after resurrection...on earth. He is saying the Christ that we SHALL see will be different (it doth not yet appear what we shall be), than the one he saw before.