Will we, after death and in heaven, know people we met on earth? Isaiah 65:17

[Fastfredy0]

Isaiah 65:17 [AMP] “Behold, I am creating new heavens and a new earth; And the former things [of life] will not be remembered or come to mind.
Given the verse above do you belief either:
1) We will not know, for example, our mother, father, siblings in heaven for "former things will not be remember or come to mind"

or

2) We will know people from our experience on earth, for example, our mother, father, siblings in heaven. Please give verses to substantiate this opinion (no parables).
Yes, I know of the transfiguration and Peter and Paul meet Moses and Elijah .... but their knowledge of these two people could not originate from earthly experience
and besides, Peter and Paul were not in the "new heaven".


If you select #1 then would it not also stand to reason we would not know anything about ourselves?

 

[WIP]

I do not know the answer to this question but part of me says, I hope not. The reason I say that is because of Revelation 21:4 (NKJV)
"God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

If I could remember my former sinful self or those that were not saved, how could I not have pain, sorrow, crying, etc.?

 

[hawkman]

Please notate Bible version when verses are posted , unless it is public domain .

Bible Version References
All Bible verses and passages must be referenced (NASB, NIV, etc.) unless it is public domain like the KJV, YLT, etc.
Info on copyrights can be found at BibleGateway - Available Versions
This is not just a request, it's the law.

 

[WIP]

Please notate Bible version when verses are posted , unless it is public domain .

Even when it is public domain, I think it is nice to include the reference so others can know where it comes from. I don't have any of them memorized and so I cannot tell just by looking how authentic and/or accurate the quoted verses are.

 

[hawkman]

These verses to me point to a homecoming in heaven . What do you think Fastfredy0 ?

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Context​

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

​

 

[Fastfredy0]

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Context​

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Sounds like verses to support the theory of the rapture.
When it comes to eschatology I am bewildered by all the theories as to what will happen.

Getting to the thread question, I am of the opinion that the verses speak to our condition when there is a new earth and new heaven which I believe will apply to all those 'in Christ' in our life after our physical death. If "And the former things [of life] will not be remembered or come to mind" be true in the context I propose, then we won't know of anything or anybody from this life including our self. That's my conjecture.

 

[hawkman]

If "And the former things [of life] will not be remembered or come to mind" be true in the context I propose, then we won't know of anything or anybody from this life including our self. That's my conjecture.

I see no reason God could not apply a selective memory filter to us right before our heavenly arrival , only good memories will remain for us . No tears in heaven . My conjecture .

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Sounds like verses to support the theory of the rapture.
When it comes to eschatology I am bewildered by all the theories as to what will happen.

Getting to the thread question, I am of the opinion that the verses speak to our condition when there is a new earth and new heaven which I believe will apply to all those 'in Christ' in our life after our physical death. If "And the former things [of life] will not be remembered or come to mind" be true in the context I propose, then we won't know of anything or anybody from this life including our self. That's my conjecture.

I agree with you, I think. I believe that the second coming of Jesus is one event, not two. He, with the souls of believers who have died, will descend, as we who are still alive, along with all believers resurrected at that time, will rise to meet him in the air (the "rapture"--a technical term in the NT for town officials going out to meet a king to welcome him back for a visit) and come back together as the new Jerusalem of Revelation 21 and 22 to the new earth after the final judgment of chapter 20.

 

[Who Me]

And the former things [of life] will not be remembered or come to mind.

What are the former things? The previous paragraph is about judgement and blessing for the disobedient and the obedient.

It could be argued that it is the former things are the consequences to disobedience.

 

[Fastfredy0]

What are the former things? The previous paragraph is about judgement and blessing for the disobedient and the obedient.

It could be argued that it is the former things are the consequences to disobedience.

You have a valid point IMO. I was thinking "former things" might apply to all historical knowledge. Perhaps "former things" is a subset of "all historical knowledge" but guessing what that subset is would be a bigger speculation.

 

[tdidymas]

Isaiah 65:17 [AMP] “Behold, I am creating new heavens and a new earth; And the former things [of life] will not be remembered or come to mind.
Given the verse above do you belief either:
1) We will not know, for example, our mother, father, siblings in heaven for "former things will not be remember or come to mind"

or

2) We will know people from our experience on earth, for example, our mother, father, siblings in heaven. Please give verses to substantiate this opinion (no parables).
Yes, I know of the transfiguration and Peter and Paul meet Moses and Elijah .... but their knowledge of these two people could not originate from earthly experience
and besides, Peter and Paul were not in the "new heaven".


If you select #1 then would it not also stand to reason we would not know anything about ourselves?

We have to consider the wider context of scripture. For example, "thou shalt not kill" does not mean anyone for any reason. In a sense, you do have to read between the lines.

So in Isa. 65, "former things" means struggles in life: survival, frustrations, death, sorrow, failed crops, hunger, etc. Consider the whole context of it.

But if NOTHING is remembered (as some people claim), then what's the reason for the exercise? Why all the hubbub of this life? It stands to reason that we are here to learn obedience to God, to learn faith, so we must encounter evil and how to overcome it, so that in eternity we never will go back to it. Especially since in the resurrection sin will be eradicated from our body and there will be no more temptations thereof. The context speaks of abundant joy, so the praise of God and loving one another will be our chief aim.

Further, I think it likely means that it's not remembered experientially, not necessarily "mind wiped." After healing from a trauma, we still remember the trauma, but we don't re-experience the pain.

 

[Who Me]

You have a valid point IMO. I was thinking "former things" might apply to all historical knowledge. Perhaps "former things" is a subset of "all historical knowledge" but guessing what that subset is would be a bigger speculation.

Personally I would be disappointed if I was unable to recognise and interact with Christians from other ages, not recognising people in heaven does make this life's experiences pointless.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Isaiah 65:17 [AMP] “Behold, I am creating new heavens and a new earth; And the former things [of life] will not be remembered or come to mind.

Greetings Freddy.

Whoever added the words "[of life]" was in error here, as it throws off the meaning of the verse. Accurate rendering in the LXX is, "For there shall be a new heaven and a new earth: and they shall not at all remember the former, neither shall these at all come into their mind."

It's talking about the former heavens and the former earth no longer coming to mind, not people.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Personally I would be disappointed if I was unable to recognise and interact with Christians from other ages, not recognising people in heaven does make this life's experiences pointless.

Well, technically, if you didn't recognize people from a previous life then there is no foundation (memories) to be the source of your disappointment. But, I get your point.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Whoever added the words "[of life]" was in error here, as it throws off the meaning of the verse. Accurate rendering in the LXX is, "For there shall be a new heaven and a new earth: and they shall not at all remember the former, neither shall these at all come into their mind."

It's talking about the former heavens and the former earth no longer coming to mind, not people.

A number of people have inserted what they believe the deeper meaning of the verse is including myself. I grant the 'devil made be in the details', but seems to me that the details are not known.

 

[jasonc]

How would one remember the reason Jesus died and paid the penalty for you in that case? Does He not now bear the marks of that in heaven ?

 

[Fastfredy0]

How would one remember the reason Jesus died and paid the penalty for you in that case?

Interesting point. Possibly the person could be re-educated. On the other hand, you would have to know, to a degree, what evil you did which might not be suitable. Revelation says there will be no more crying which suggests the evil memories might be erased.

Does He not now bear the marks of that in heaven ?

Apparently Jesus did when He meet Thomas. I sort of think He would continue to bare the marks, but anything is possible.
Maybe Jesus will always in a glorified state like at the transfiguration.

 

[jasonc]

Interesting point. Possibly the person could be re-educated. On the other hand, you would have to know, to a degree, what evil you did which might not be suitable. Revelation says there will be no more crying which suggests the evil memories might be erased.


Apparently Jesus did when He meet Thomas. I sort of think He would continue to bare the marks, but anything is possible.
Maybe Jesus will always in a glorified state like at the transfiguration.

Look at what Paul says that the marks He bore for us are still in heaven .

I think we will remember the evil we were and praise God we were saved .

 

[Fastfredy0]

Look at what Paul says that the marks He bore for us are still in heaven

I am not aware of that verse. What is it?

Galatians 6:17 King James Version (KJV) From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus. You mean this one?

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Personally I would be disappointed if I was unable to recognise and interact with Christians from other ages, not recognising people in heaven does make this life's experiences pointless.

You won't be disappointed; you'll be perfect then!