will we all see the rapture ?

[thesaintman]

can you say me it

 

[Eugene]

can you say me it

The Church will experience being caught up in their respective rank. Whether I will see you caught up as a part of the first resurrection I have no idea. I’ll just list the different segments as John saw them arrive from the perspective of the Lord’s Day which is future to when Jesus receives His own crown in Rev 4:2.

1 – The 24 elders (Rev 4:4) & Four beasts (Rev 4:6) round about, and in the midst of the throne with Jesus. This occurs prior to the tribulation.

2 – The great multitude (Rev 7:14,15) caught up to God out of great tribulation, and they stand before the throne of God.

3 – The 144,000 standing with Jesus in the heavenly Jerusalem (Mount Sion – Heb 12:22). They were before the throne, and the 24 elders & 4 beasts (Rev 14:3). They were caught up as the Man Child of Rev 12:5.

4 - The remainder coming to God not receiving the mark of the beast during the tribulation will also be the elect, and enter the earthly kingdom of God during the millennium.

 

[M.Abdullah]

is beleif in the rapture a core principal, meaning, if one denies the existance of the rapture, does this negate one as a christian?

 

[Eugene]

is beleif in the rapture a core principal, meaning, if one denies the existance of the rapture, does this negate one as a christian?

Not at all. Our salvation is based on the requirement met by Jesus on the cross in our stead, and our belief bestowed on us which believe. Thanks for your question, and I hope I give the answer you seek. Salvation in the Bible is spoken of in at least four different aspects. The following is from a pamphlet I wrote & posted:
Salvation with Security – 1, 2, 3
http://www.christianforums.net/Fell...ds/salvation-with-security-parts-1-2-3.52236/

First - It is provisional. If you accept Jesus as your savior, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9-10) "If you say with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved, (10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Second - When you become saved, it is at this time that you are born again and have overcome the penalty of sin, or become saved from the great white throne judgment and the resulting lake of fire. (Repeating John 5:24), "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." In (Romans 8:1) "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus."

Third - The working out your own salvation referred to in (Philippians 2:12) is learning to overcome the habit of sin in our lives. This is the experiencing part of our salvation and is another step in our growth as a Christian. (2 Peter 1:5-7) tells us to "Add to your faith virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness and charity." To realize this growth in our lives, we must learn to begin counting our old man dead. (Romans 6:6) "Knowing this, that our old man (The Adamic nature) is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.” (Ephesians 4:22) “That ye put off concerning the former conversation (Manner of life) the old man who is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;” (Colossians 3:9) “Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds." We all have an old man we should count as dead that still wants to rule our lives. Even though the Apostle Paul knew he was saved, he experienced all kinds of problems with the old man trying to control his life. (Romans 7:14-25) states that (15) he ends up doing that which he hates. In (16,17), Paul realizes that if he agrees that the law is good, then it is no more him that was responsible, but sin that was in him. In looking for an answer he says (24) "Who shall deliver me?" (25) "I thank God through Jesus Christ"

(Romans 8:1). "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus." And in (Romans 8:4) it says that "The righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us (Not by us), who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Fourth - We will be saved from this corrupt world. In (Romans 8:18-23), Paul states (18) "For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (21) Because the creature (Creation) itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. (22) For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now." John states in (1 John 3:2) "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

 

[M.Abdullah]

thank you eugene, even as a christian, I always had a hard time accepting the concept of the rapture as true because it seemed based mostly on interpretation, I found it odd that this mere interpretation of biblical verses had so much emphasis placed on it in my personal experience. I even met strong pushback when I brought up my doubts - I always wondered if this pushback was there because its a core belief or my youth pastor was just particularly zealous about that topic

 

[reba]

YIKES i agree

 

[jasonc]

I seldom debate that in person. the looks of oh you are one of those.lets get you some good bible study time and that will fix that.

 

[Eugene]

thank you eugene, even as a christian, I always had a hard time accepting the concept of the rapture as true because it seemed based mostly on interpretation, I found it odd that this mere interpretation of biblical verses had so much emphasis placed on it in my personal experience. I even met strong pushback when I brought up my doubts - I always wondered if this pushback was there because its a core belief or my youth pastor was just particularly zealous about that topic

You're so very welcome. Interpretation varies upon the quality of ones growth, and understanding of scripture just as you will find in your own religion. We have such phrases we have assigned to the expression "Caught up" as rapture. Other things that can throw a difference is the time being spoken of. E.g., Rev 4:1 states clearly that the viewpoint John is being shown is hereafter from that point in time, and yet many still refer to the Man Child of Rev 12:5 as the birth of Christ. Our interpretation does not change God, but just as we read of certain ones not eating certain things, and others believing they can eat all things, or celebrating one day above another God receives them both in Rom 14:3,4,5,6.

 

[dianegcook]

can you say me it

Me it?
In Rev.1:7
Every eye shall see Him.
I believe it is after the trib.
2Thess.2:1-4
We beseech you, brethren , by the COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, and by our GATHERING TOGETHER unto Him.
Be not shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor BY LETTER AS FROM US (1Thess.4:17)
Let no man deceive you, FOR THAT DAY shall not come, except there come a falling away first, ( defect from truth, apostasy) and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (Satan)
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he AS GOD, SITTETH IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, SHOWING HIMSELF THAT HE IS GOD.
8; the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and destroy with the brightness of HIS COMING.
9, Even Him, Whose COMING IS AFTER THE WORKING OF SATAN WITH ALL POWER and SIGNS AND LYING WONDERS.

The 7 Churches in Rev.?
_There was only 2 that He found no fault in.
Smyrna and Philadelphia
Smyrna:
Rev.2:9
I know thy works and tribulation..and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN.
10, Fear none of those things which thou shall suffer, behold the Devil shall cast some of you in prison, that he may be tried, and he shall have tribulation 10 days (individually):, be thou faithful unto death (Satan is death), and I will give thee a crown of life.
Philadelphia
Rev.3:
8; hast not denied My Name.
9, Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie......
10, because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from THE HOUR OF TEMPTATION, which shall come upon all the world, to try them,.

They will not find Satan tempting, but rather an abomination.
Mark 13:
5, Take heed lest any man deceive you,.,..
9; take heed to yourselves, for they shall deliver you up to councils, and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten, ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for A TESTIMONY against them.
11, when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate, but whatsoever shall be given you in THAT HOUR (hour of temptation), speak ye, for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Spirit....
19; For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation unto this time, neither shall be.
20; but for the Elect's sake, whom He hath chosen, He hath shortened the days.
24, After the tribulation, of those days..
26, shall see the Son if man COMING IN THE CLOUDS with great power and glory.
Shall gather the Elect, from the uttermost part of the EARTH to the uttermost part of HEAVEN......