Women leadership forbidden - Frowned at!!!

[Classik]

Reading various generalizations by people everywhere and even here, and from some women themselves, I have come to the conclusion (not my opinion but people's opinion) that it is not just about women pastors alone...and their restriction from being pastors or church owners.
women are forbidden from leading over men - in whatever area you can think of.

someone has said:

Genesis account clearly illustrates that God had intended for the two to be equal...sin changed everything
Your desire shall be unto your husband. Genesis 3:16

"desire in what area"? Classik asks

 

[Deborah13]

Reading various generalizations by people everywhere and even here, and from some women themselves, I have come to the conclusion (not my opinion but people's opinion) that it is not just about women pastors alone...and their restriction from being pastors or church owners.
women are forbidden from leading over men - in whatever area you can think of.

someone has said:

Genesis account clearly illustrates that God had intended for the two to be equal...sin changed everything
Your desire shall be unto your husband. Genesis 3:16

"desire in what area"? Classik asks

I think that refers to Bible stuff.....
Otherwise almost all Christians have sinned by allowing their high school age sons to be taught by women teachers in public schools!

 

[Obadiah]

I've seen this controversy going on for as long as I can remember. In reality, a lot of it has to do with how certain passages are interpreted and with the context they are found in. I doubt we will ever have a clear answer on this until we meet God face to face and see clearly instead of only seeing in the dim mirror.

 

[reba]

Obadiah what ever does common sense have to do with scripture?

 

[evenifigoalone]

http://christianthinktank.com/fem09.html

^ Says it all for me

 

[Knotical]

I really don't think this falls into the realm of education, as it is the duty of both parents to train a child, which includes the wife (woman).

Also, there are roles for women in church leadership, just not in a pastoral, elder, or deacon position. I find no problem with women being Sunday School teachers, but when it comes to leadership over the congregation, those positions are reserved for men.

Now, the reason we have found women taking on these roles in various churches is because the men have not stepped up and filled those roles that are reserved for them. In this case it is the sin of the men of the church that has forced the women to step up. This happens all the time.

 

[Classik]

would

I really don't think this falls into the realm of education, as it is the duty of both parents to train a child, which includes the wife (woman).

Also, there are roles for women in church leadership, just not in a pastoral, elder, or deacon position. I find no problem with women being Sunday School teachers, but when it comes to leadership over the congregation, those positions are reserved for men.

Now, the reason we have found women taking on these roles in various churches is because the men have not stepped up and filled those roles that are reserved for them. In this case it is the sin of the men of the church that has forced the women to step up. This happens all the time.

In such an obvious case..could stepping up be regarded as a sin to that woman?
Is it the same as obedience is better than sacrifice?

 

[Knotical]

would

In such an obvious case..could stepping up be regarded as a sin to that woman?
Is it the same as obedience is better than sacrifice?

I guess it would depend on what the woman did prior to assuming a role she was not meant for. But, as always, I would have to defer to God for the answer on that one.

 

[Deborah13]

Am I sinning? Is she sinning? Is he sinning?

OR

How is this a blessing?

Guess how you look at it might depend on how one envisions the Father.

 

[Knotical]

They way to "envision" the Father is laid out in the bible. Is it possible to be a blessing while sinning at the same time?

 

[Kathi]

Reading various generalizations by people everywhere and even here, and from some women themselves, I have come to the conclusion (not my opinion but people's opinion) that it is not just about women pastors alone...and their restriction from being pastors or church owners.
women are forbidden from leading over men - in whatever area you can think of.

someone has said:

Genesis account clearly illustrates that God had intended for the two to be equal...sin changed everything
Your desire shall be unto your husband. Genesis 3:16

"desire in what area"? Classik asks

In the Church God did not intend for women to be leaders in the Church.That includes Pastors,Deacons.

 

[Obadiah]

In the Church God did not intend for women to be leaders in the Church.That includes Pastors,Deacons.

That's why this gets so confusing. On one hand it seems scripture condemns women leaders and teachers, but on the other hand there are passages that speak of women deacons and prophets in a positive way. What are we supposed to make of this? I can truly see where both sides get their support from scripture.

 

[Kathi]

That's why this gets so confusing. On one hand it seems scripture condemns women leaders and teachers, but on the other hand there are passages that speak of women deacons and prophets in a positive way. What are we supposed to make of this? I can truly see where both sides get their support from scripture.

There are many Christians and Church leaders who think women should be leaders in the Church.I am only going by scripture of the Holy Bible.For me that is safer.

 

[Obadiah]

There are many Christians and Church leaders who think women should be leaders in the Church.I am only going by scripture of the Holy Bible.For me that is safer.

Wouldn't you consider a deacon or prophet a leader? There are female deacons and prophets mentioned in that scripture? How do you reconcile that with saying women shouldn't be leaders according to scripture, unless you don't consider those leadership positions?

This is why I am saying this is a confusing subject that probably won't get solved any time soon. :yes

 

[Deborah13]

They way to "envision" the Father is laid out in the bible. Is it possible to be a blessing while sinning at the same time?

Nope, I wasn't clear.

When I look at what God has said about anything, all the dos and nots, I know there is a blessing in there. I don't look at it first off and say, "that's a sin if I, he, she" don't comply.

So instead of saying, oh they're sinning their going to be in trouble, I think, oh they are missing a blessing that God has for them.

So is the husband in sin or the wife in sin. Does it really matter, they are married and they are missing a blessing.

 

[Knotical]

Nope, I wasn't clear.

When I look at what God has said about anything, all the dos and nots, I know there is a blessing in there. I don't look at it first off and say, "that's a sin if I, he, she" don't comply.

So instead of saying, oh they're sinning their going to be in trouble, I think, oh they are missing a blessing that God has for them.

So is the husband in sin or the wife in sin. Does it really matter, they are married and they are missing a blessing.

That can be a very dangerous take on what the bible teaches. By looking at things this way you are missing the fact that we are sinners, and must repent of sins we commit, whether by omission or commission. In the case of a woman stepping up as a leader (elder, pastor, deacon, etc...) in the church she actually is committing a sin, while at the same time her husband is committing a sin of omission by allowing this to happen as he is not fulfilling his role within the church.

The bottom line is there is sin, and we are able to be blessings to each other. By avoiding one we are able to do the other as a way of honoring God.

 

[Deborah13]

That can be a very dangerous take on what the bible teaches. By looking at things this way you are missing the fact that we are sinners, and must repent of sins we commit, whether by omission or commission. In the case of a woman stepping up as a leader (elder, pastor, deacon, etc...) in the church she actually is committing a sin, while at the same time her husband is committing a sin of omission by allowing this to happen as he is not fulfilling his role within the church.

The bottom line is there is sin, and we are able to be blessings to each other. By avoiding one we are able to do the other as a way of honoring God.

Obviously I still have not been clear enough.

WHY did God make that rule? Was it to curse them or to bless them?
WHY did God give the Israelites 613 laws to live by? Was it to curse them or to bless them?
When you make rules for your children is it to curse them or to bless them?

When I look at any rule that God has made I look for the blessing in it. I look for a how God is expressing His love in that rule. So then if someone says Why did God make that rule, it seems unfair, I can point out the blessing in it, because He loves you.

Most times people know that if they disobey God, it's a sin, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that out.

 

[Classik]

Nope, I wasn't clear.

When I look at what God has said about anything, all the dos and nots, I know there is a blessing in there. I don't look at it first off and say, "that's a sin if I, he, she" don't comply.

So instead of saying, oh they're sinning their going to be in trouble, I think, oh they are missing a blessing that God has for them.

So is the husband in sin or the wife in sin. Does it really matter, they are married and they are missing a blessing.

such a thought pops up many possibilities and speculations. When the woman is leading...this is akin to saying the man is already sinning or backsliding or is nonchalant with his Godly responsibility.

Before the fall.... seems to place woman exactly the same position as man...but I don't get it why God had to blame Adam first. was he the boss before the fall?

 

[Deborah13]

such a thought pops up many possibilities and speculations. When the woman is leading...this is akin to saying the man is already sinning or backsliding or is nonchalant with his Godly responsibility.

Before the fall.... seems to place woman exactly the same position as man...but I don't get it why God had to blame Adam first. was he the boss before the fall?

We can all speculate about what happened and who's fault it was. But I think the only way we could really know now is by studying the scripture with the Holy Spirit and sometimes Godly people can help. I read a lot of commentaries, too.

 

[Classik]

That can be a very dangerous take on what the bible teaches. By looking at things this way you are missing the fact that we are sinners, and must repent of sins we commit, whether by omission or commission. In the case of a woman stepping up as a leader (elder, pastor, deacon, etc...) in the church she actually is committing a sin, while at the same time her husband is committing a sin of omission by allowing this to happen as he is not fulfilling his role within the church.

The bottom line is there is sin, and we are able to be blessings to each other. By avoiding one we are able to do the other as a way of honoring God.

Wait a minute. How does husband and wife apply in such a scenario...take for instance in a church where the males are not yet married...or maybe let's say in the youth department of a church.