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Would you join a church that

S

Servant_2000

Guest
didn't believe Jesus was eternally God?
believed that Scripture had errors?
developed doctrines based on prophetic visions?
believed that God deliberately deceives His followers?

Welcome to the early SDA church, the self-proclaimed remnant church of Bible prophecy.

Have you ever asked yourself how a church with founders and leaders that did not believe in the full Divinity of Jesus even claim to be preaching the everlasting Gospel?
 
Servant_2000 said:
didn't believe Jesus was eternally God?
believed that Scripture had errors?
developed doctrines based on prophetic visions?
believed that God deliberately deceives His followers?

Welcome to the early SDA church, the self-proclaimed remnant church of Bible prophecy.

Have you ever asked yourself how a church with founders and leaders that did not believe in the full Divinity of Jesus even claim to be preaching the everlasting Gospel?
Click to expand...

:roll: Ah, yes. Here we go again...the favorite whipping boy of servant and others.

Servant_2000 said:
didn't believe Jesus was eternally God?
Click to expand...

It is true that the early pioneers were semi-arianism but like anything in the formation of doctrine, opinions eventually change with study. EGW has no problem with the divinity of Christ or that He is God. The trinity is one of our fundamental beliefs.

A foolish argument by desperate elitists thinking they know so much about the church.

Servant_2000 said:
believed that Scripture had errors?
Click to expand...

The Bible has errors merely in the human aspect of translation (i.e. scribal errors like the differences in the gospels). The gospel message is inspired and from God. Acknowledging the human aspect in no way negates the truth of the message.

Anyway, this is not a mainstream SDA belief and is criticized by many fundamentals. EGW puts more stock in the Bible than many other evangelical denominations I know.

Another foolish argument.

Servant_2000 said:
developed doctrines based on prophetic visions?
Click to expand...

Oh my. Here is the crux of the matter: You speak of the heavenly sanctuary and the investigative judgement?

This doctrine was studied and confirmed by history and the scriptures. Whether you agree with it or not doesn't mean that they are 'based ' on prophetic visions. At the least you could say that people might believe it because it was 'confirmed' by prophetic visions.

Anyway, who's to say that EGW finished growing spiritually or that new light wouldn't have been revealed? EGW was a progressive SDA IMO.

This is one doctrine left up to interpretation that can be proven both ways. Can I point out the numerous fallacies of your doctrine now?

Servant_2000 said:
believed that God deliberately deceives His followers?
Click to expand...

Not sure where you mean by this or where you are going with it. God has allowed many to believe falsehoods (What do you think the immortality of the soul is?) for the sake of His followers to question, search, study and develop their beliefs.

This isn't a doctrine or belief of the church. There are some progressive/liberal SDAs that believe this occurred for the growth of our pioneers in some doctrinal errors. This thinking has been met with violent opposition from many fundamental SDAs I really don't know what your issue is, servant 2000.

Another foolish argument based on bitter opposition of what you really don't understand.

I suggest if anyone wants to know more about SDAs, please contact me or SputnikBoy by PM instead of getting your knowledge from second hand amateurs like some on this forum who don't understand.

I will pull no punches with you or decieve you. Come to a reliable source on SDAs if you want the truth.

Don't waste your time reading clap-trap like what' here...
 
I feel sorry for the people who choose churches where all they preach is hate for other people and other churches. God, love, peace and the joy of knowing Jesus should be the topic if one has the The H0ly Spirit. If not I guess hate is the substitute. I would rather praise than bash.
http://thinkunity.com
 
soma said:
I feel sorry for the people who choose churches where all they preach is hate for other people and other churches. God, love, peace and the joy of knowing Jesus should be the topic if one has the The H0ly Spirit. If not I guess hate is the substitute. I would rather praise than bash.
http://thinkunity.com
Click to expand...
Amen.

I see this hatred from Evangelicals all day long dished out on many here in Utah.
 
stray bullet said:
If someone is interested in the more factual information about SDA, good or bad;
http://www.catholic.com/library/Seventh ... entism.asp
Click to expand...

I find it extremely interesting that the only denomination that has gotten the majority of the facts right without hateful bias on our church, is the one denomination that should have the most hate for SDAs: the Catholics! :D

Despite a few minor errors, this is one of the best explanations given by another denomination on SDAism. It even defended us against those fanatical, rabid-anti SDA groups that wrongly classify us as a cult or 'non-Christian' (like many of the former adventists on the formeradventist forums do).

Thanks stray bullet! I enjoyed it and approve of it (as much as is possible).

Some minor errors:

* The SDA church is about 13 million members worldwide, not 7 million
* The SDA church and EGW's writings rail more against the RC church as a system without branding the people in it. There are many other Protestant denominations that are WAY worse in their treatment and disdain for ANYTHING Catholic. Love for all people not matter what faith they are is what Christ and our church teaches.
 
Servant_2000 said:
didn't believe Jesus was eternally God?

Depends.....God in what sense? Was Jesus preincarnate Elohim? yes. Was Jesus God on earth? Yes, in the fact he was the human Agent of God, and as God's representative according to the Jewish understanding, he could be viewed as God (this is seen in both the Jewish understanding of Agency and the Greek word for God (ie Thomas' proclamation). Is Jesus, God now and in the future? Yes, in the sense described above. Is Jesus God the Father? No....in that sense he is not Eternally God.

It all depends on what the definition of "is" is....What is the definition of God....and who are you addressing the question to....A Trinitarian will say No. A non Trinitarian will say Yes.

believed that Scripture had errors?

The NT scriptures do have errors....that is a fact. It is also fact that additions and subtractions have been made to the NT. Of course there are errors, the various different translations alone prove that. The only case anyone can make legitimately for non error (as much as possible) is the OT.

developed doctrines based on prophetic visions?

In this case I say No. Except if the doctrines are based on OT prophetic visions.

believed that God deliberately deceives His followers?

No. I think over the past 1900 years Satan has deceived God's followers...resulting in the theology of modern mainstream Christianity.

Welcome to the early SDA church, the self-proclaimed remnant church of Bible prophecy.

I don't know what the SDA espouses....but they don't know Bible prophecy if they believe they are the remnant.....

Have you ever asked yourself how a church with founders and leaders that did not believe in the full Divinity of Jesus even claim to be preaching the everlasting Gospel?

I have....and found that that is most likely correct. The early church ( who were Jewish believers) taught that Jesus wasn't God (in the sense of a coequal trinity), and yet they preached the everlasting gospel. They taught that he was the Messiah of God. It wasn't until Gnositcism and Greek Philosophy were introduced into Church apologetics that Jesus became deified.
Click to expand...
 
I feel very uneasy about you and your animosity toward the SDA Church, servant. Have you had a previous bad experience with SDA individuals that has soured you toward Adventists in general? I know that this sort of thing DOES happen within ALL Christian denominations.

Your hostility toward SDAs goes beyond reason and I feel that you might have other agenda that you're not telling us about. I've noted how you will often turn away from the issue at hand (that may have NOTHING to do with SDAs) and steer the topic toward an SDA bash ...for no other reason than that was your intent to begin with.

There are some of us, servant, who didn't come down in the last shower. Do you want to tell us about it? Your 'hidden' agenda, that is? I don't believe that it has anything to do with the Bible.
 
Dear SpuntnikBoy,

Thank you for your concern over me. The Holy Spirit must have led you to our website to teach you something, even though you seem to think otherwise.

Can you prove from Scripture alone:

That the Spirit of prophecy is not the Holy Spirit?

That God's "remnant" is the Seventh-day Adventist church?

That "the commandments of God" as used in the New Testament are anything other than the commandments of Jesus as spoken in the New Testament?

That "the testimony of Jesus" is anything other than the gospel?

Praying for you,
 
Dear SpuntnikBoy,

Thank you for your concern over me. The Holy Spirit must have led you to our website to teach you something, even though you seem to think otherwise.

Can you prove from Scripture alone:

That the Spirit of prophecy is not the Holy Spirit?

That God's "remnant" is the Seventh-day Adventist church?

That "the commandments of God" as used in the New Testament are anything other than the commandments of Jesus as spoken in the New Testament?

That "the testimony of Jesus" is anything other than the gospel?

Praying for you,
 
Dear SpuntnikBoy,

Thank you for your concern over me. The Holy Spirit must have led you to our website to teach you something, even though you seem to think otherwise.

Can you prove from Scripture alone:

That the Spirit of prophecy is not the Holy Spirit?

That God's "remnant" is the Seventh-day Adventist church?

That "the commandments of God" as used in the New Testament are anything other than the commandments of Jesus as spoken in the New Testament?

That "the testimony of Jesus" is anything other than the gospel?

Praying for you,
 
Dear SpuntnikBoy,

Thank you for your concern over me. The Holy Spirit must have led you to our website to teach you something, even though you seem to think otherwise.

Can you prove from Scripture alone:

That the Spirit of prophecy is not the Holy Spirit?

That God's "remnant" is the Seventh-day Adventist church?

That "the commandments of God" as used in the New Testament are anything other than the commandments of Jesus as spoken in the New Testament?

That "the testimony of Jesus" is anything other than the gospel?

Praying for you,
 
guibox said:
stray bullet said:
If someone is interested in the more factual information about SDA, good or bad;
http://www.catholic.com/library/Seventh ... entism.asp
Click to expand...

I find it extremely interesting that the only denomination that has gotten the majority of the facts right without hateful bias on our church, is the one denomination that should have the most hate for SDAs: the Catholics! :D

Despite a few minor errors, this is one of the best explanations given by another denomination on SDAism. It even defended us against those fanatical, rabid-anti SDA groups that wrongly classify us as a cult or 'non-Christian' (like many of the former adventists on the formeradventist forums do).

Thanks stray bullet! I enjoyed it and approve of it (as much as is possible).

Some minor errors:

* The SDA church is about 13 million members worldwide, not 7 million
* The SDA church and EGW's writings rail more against the RC church as a system without branding the people in it. There are many other Protestant denominations that are WAY worse in their treatment and disdain for ANYTHING Catholic. Love for all people not matter what faith they are is what Christ and our church teaches.
Click to expand...

I think the statistics may be a little difficult to calculate and easy to inflate. The article might be a little dated too.

Catholic.com is a fair site for information. There is no reason to lie about a group, it just hurts your credibility. I just wish SDAs felt the same way. The kinds of stuff SDA evangelists make up about Catholics, especially those in areas where information may not be as accessable as it is here with the internet is really hurtful. Then again, a lot of SDAs are perfectly content with the fact that the history of Christianity according to the SDAs can't be found in a history book. Oh well.
 
Servant_2000 said:
Dear SpuntnikBoy,

Thank you for your concern over me. The Holy Spirit must have led you to our website to teach you something, even though you seem to think otherwise.

*SNIP*

Praying for you,
Click to expand...

The beginning and end of your post makes it very clear that you are here for nothing more then to show off your self proclaimed superiority. It is because of this glaringly obvious issue that I wonder if a discussion with you is even beneficial. Have you ever thought that maybe it is YOU that was led here to learn something? OH THE HORROR!!!!

And with your condescending disposition, I would doubt he wants your prayers. Maybe you should spend a little more time remembering your a sinnere and asking for mercy instead of pounding your chest thanking God your not like "them." Do you even remember that part of the Bible?
 
Servant_2000 said:
Dear SpuntnikBoy,

Thank you for your concern over me. The Holy Spirit must have led you to our website to teach you something, even though you seem to think otherwise.

I have no idea what you're talking about, Servant. Then again, maybe I do! Be that as it may, I don't doubt that I can learn plenty from others. I am an open vessel ...fill me with knowledge! :)

Can you prove from Scripture alone:

That the Spirit of prophecy is not the Holy Spirit?

As opposed to Ellen White, do you mean? I don't need to. Have I ever said or even hinted that I believe that EGW is/was the Spirit of Prophecy? No, I haven't. What I HAVE said on a number of occasions is that Ellen White doesn't - not for me anyway - speak in place of the scriptures. I can't respond for others but I personally don't know Ellen White. I've never read any of her literature, and I therefore never quote her. You're picking on the wrong guy, Servant.

By the way, I perhaps need to make a pertinent point. I'm my own man and no one - and that includes the SDA Church - does my thinking for me.

That God's "remnant" is the Seventh-day Adventist church?

Sorry to burst your bubble but I don't believe that at all. Why would you assume that I do? Oh, but of course ... :wink: :wink: (nudge, nudge)

I'm my own man, remember?

That "the commandments of God" as used in the New Testament are anything other than the commandments of Jesus as spoken in the New Testament?

I believe - from the scriptures alone - that loving God and neighbor encompass 'the Big Ten' and probably other commands that espouse 'love'. In fact, I don't really see how one can love God without being obedient to the first four commandments. Can you?

That "the testimony of Jesus" is anything other than the gospel?

Absolutely, the gospel and it alone. You don't have any argument from me on this, Servant. If the SDA Church teaches anything other than that then I totally disagree with it. I have so far not found it to do so, however.

Having said that I really have no reason to justify myself to you, Servant. I'm well aware that you're playing a game here of "Let us discredit the SDAs". It's a game typically played by disgruntled former SDAs or supporters of this group. I have no idea which of the two you are. I'm playing along just for the sake of it while answering your questions with total honesty.

Praying for you.

Well, I can always use the prayers of others but ...anything specifically?

And by the way ...if you or someone you know had a bad experience with SDAs or even the SDA Church itself, get over it. By all means argue or debate scripture but please get off this 'SDA bash'. It makes you appear ugly.
Click to expand...
 
Lyric's Dad said:
[quote="Servant_2000":37726]Dear SpuntnikBoy,

Thank you for your concern over me. The Holy Spirit must have led you to our website to teach you something, even though you seem to think otherwise.

*SNIP*

Praying for you,
Click to expand...

The beginning and end of your post makes it very clear that you are here for nothing more then to show off your self proclaimed superiority. It is because of this glaringly obvious issue that I wonder if a discussion with you is even beneficial. Have you ever thought that maybe it is YOU that was led here to learn something? OH THE HORROR!!!!

And with your condescending disposition, I would doubt he wants your prayers. Maybe you should spend a little more time remembering your a sinnere and asking for mercy instead of pounding your chest thanking God your not like "them." Do you even remember that part of the Bible?[/quote:37726]

Thanks LD.
 
Lyric's Dad said:
[quote="Servant_2000":cede7]Dear SpuntnikBoy,

Thank you for your concern over me. The Holy Spirit must have led you to our website to teach you something, even though you seem to think otherwise.

*SNIP*

Praying for you,
Click to expand...

The beginning and end of your post makes it very clear that you are here for nothing more then to show off your self proclaimed superiority. It is because of this glaringly obvious issue that I wonder if a discussion with you is even beneficial. Have you ever thought that maybe it is YOU that was led here to learn something? OH THE HORROR!!!!

And with your condescending disposition, I would doubt he wants your prayers. Maybe you should spend a little more time remembering your a sinnere and asking for mercy instead of pounding your chest thanking God your not like "them." Do you even remember that part of the Bible?[/quote:cede7]

The beginning and end of my post makes it very clear what I said. It has nothing to do with some chest thumper you make me to be..which I'm not...I'm one of those who hang's my head humbly..and says the opposite. But you don't know that..because you don't see it.
 
Servant_2000 said:
[quote="Lyric's Dad":4a900][quote="Servant_2000":4a900]Dear SpuntnikBoy,

Thank you for your concern over me. The Holy Spirit must have led you to our website to teach you something, even though you seem to think otherwise.

*SNIP*

Praying for you,
Click to expand...

The beginning and end of your post makes it very clear that you are here for nothing more then to show off your self proclaimed superiority. It is because of this glaringly obvious issue that I wonder if a discussion with you is even beneficial. Have you ever thought that maybe it is YOU that was led here to learn something? OH THE HORROR!!!!

And with your condescending disposition, I would doubt he wants your prayers. Maybe you should spend a little more time remembering your a sinnere and asking for mercy instead of pounding your chest thanking God your not like "them." Do you even remember that part of the Bible?[/quote:4a900]

The beginning and end of my post makes it very clear what I said. It has nothing to do with some chest thumper you make me to be..which I'm not...I'm one of those who hang's my head humbly..and says the opposite. But you don't know that..because you don't see it.[/quote:4a900]


Matthew 7:14-17


16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.


No, I don't see IT. What I see is condescenscion exactly as I stated. These are your fruits. God has given us ways to show people what is in our hearts and I think you showed it in the post you put up there. If these are the fruits you wish to sell, I think I will be a strict carnivore.


Sput,, Not a problem me brotha.
 
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