Would you save Jesus from the Cross?

[Soma-Sight]

To say that I would take Christ from the Cross would say that I would do something better than God.

Your probably right......

I guess weak willed people such as myself would probably just jump in and try to save Jesus form a shameful death.... Salvation be dammed or not.... Because if you LOVE someone truly you wouldnt want them to go through that kind of agaony..... If my child or mother or girlfriend was dying on the Cross for MY sins than I would do the same....

Why would I put Christ below them?

Call it "bleeding heart sympathy" or "foolishness" I guess..... At any rate GOOD ANSWERS Brutus! :D

 

[Blazin Bones]

It's noble to go and save a friend or loved one. However, It's sin to interfere with God's will. That's why, instead of trying to be noble against God's will, just be thankful that Jesus was Noble for God's will even if it meant His own Death.

 

[Soma-Sight]

It's noble to go and save a friend or loved one. However, It's sin to interfere with God's will. That's why, instead of trying to be noble against God's will, just be thankful that Jesus was Noble for God's will even if it meant His own Death.

I just have one problem with this statement..... I am a worrier and the little things bother me.....

I thought Jesus was God?

If Jesus IS God and HIS will is that of the FATHER'S.....

Why was there a discrepancy in the Garden and on the Cross to "take away this cup if it is possible".....

Why, if Jesus IS God and has the same WILL of the Father is there a contradiction here?

Jesus obviously asks GOD'S WILL which is SUPPOSED to be HIS OWN WILL to "let the cup pass" from Him.... That is, to let there "be another Way" for Him to rectify the sin problem.....

So this leads us to a variety if possible conclusions...

1. Jesus is subordinate to God the Father and NOT EQUAL to the Father in terms of AUHTHORITY. So why do we worship Him instead of the Father like Jesus did

2. God can have MULTIPLE SOLUTIONS FOR THE SAME PROBLEM. (Maybe Jesus had HIS OWN mind and WAY to save His people in that HE was an INDIVIDUAL and in a sense separate from God the Father, but still had the authority to act upon creation....

Typical Fundamentalist thinking seems to imply that THERE COULDNT POSSIBLY BE ANOTHER WAY TO RECTIFY THE SIN PROBLEM IN THAT GOD HIMSELF IS NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH TO REINSTATE HUMANITY IN HIS FAVOR WITHOUT BLOODSHED..... Even though Jesus obviously didnt want to die and possibly had His own ideas for humanity,(apart from Jewish sacrificial customs) the Cross was still made a reality due to His lesser authority than God the Father.

 

[Muad'Dib]

Saving Jesus was impossible. This was preordained, and nothing anyone could have done could stop it, short of violence. And as Jesus preached, violence was not something God approved of in this instance. What the disciples truly did wrong was that they did not stand with Jesus, or proclaim that they were among his disciples. They rejected him, chickened out. This was where they truly erred. Would I have been brave enough to stand with him? I hope so, but I cannot say.

 

[lovely]

Soma,

Everytime I read this thread, I am bothered by the way you worded your questions. They seem so disrespectful. I know you are creative, but could you please find it in your heart to edit them?

Blessings

 

[Quath]

Well, I didn't see a choice in the poll I could select. But if I went back in time and saw Jesus was going to be killed, I would seek to save him from that death. I guess I value freedom of religion and feedom of speech. What he did did not deserve death.

If it were so important to Jesus that he die, he could slit his wrists later.

Quath

 

[Blazin Bones]

It's noble to go and save a friend or loved one. However, It's sin to interfere with God's will. That's why, instead of trying to be noble against God's will, just be thankful that Jesus was Noble for God's will even if it meant His own Death.

I just have one problem with this statement..... I am a worrier and the little things bother me.....

I thought Jesus was God?

If Jesus IS God and HIS will is that of the FATHER'S.....

Why was there a discrepancy in the Garden and on the Cross to "take away this cup if it is possible".....

Why, if Jesus IS God and has the same WILL of the Father is there a contradiction here?

Jesus obviously asks GOD'S WILL which is SUPPOSED to be HIS OWN WILL to "let the cup pass" from Him.... That is, to let there "be another Way" for Him to rectify the sin problem.....

So this leads us to a variety if possible conclusions...

1. Jesus is subordinate to God the Father and NOT EQUAL to the Father in terms of AUHTHORITY. So why do we worship Him instead of the Father like Jesus did

2. God can have MULTIPLE SOLUTIONS FOR THE SAME PROBLEM. (Maybe Jesus had HIS OWN mind and WAY to save His people in that HE was an INDIVIDUAL and in a sense separate from God the Father, but still had the authority to act upon creation....

Typical Fundamentalist thinking seems to imply that THERE COULDNT POSSIBLY BE ANOTHER WAY TO RECTIFY THE SIN PROBLEM IN THAT GOD HIMSELF IS NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH TO REINSTATE HUMANITY IN HIS FAVOR WITHOUT BLOODSHED..... Even though Jesus obviously didnt want to die and possibly had His own ideas for humanity,(apart from Jewish sacrificial customs) the Cross was still made a reality due to His lesser authority than God the Father.

This whle posts neglects one key truth. Jesus was fully God and He was fully Human. Therefore, his Godly nature was equal to God because it was God. However, his human nature wasn't. As to Authority, Just as a son is to respect their father whether he is better than himself or not, Christ would have submitted to God even though he was equal. God is a God of order, and that can not be forgotten.

 

[Kathy]

The whole purpose for Jesus being lowered into the realm of flesh and blood was to reconcile man back to God. To restore the broken relationship that too place between man and God. And the only way to do this was by being "the ulitimate sacrifice" through His shed blood on the cross for the sins of the world.

Do you think for one moment when Jesus was stripped of His Glory which He had with the Father (John 17: Jesus prays to be clothed with the Glory He had before) and then was lowered into this realm , that Jesus didn't know full well what was going to happen to Him?

Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega. He saw the end from the begining. Then was lowered to walk it out. This was no surprise to Him. He was not looking for "another way" when He asked "if it be possible let this cup pass from me".

Jesus was God and is God. So is the Father. At the end of revelations it even says "at the end of the thousand years the Kingdom will be offered back up to the Father and even Jesus will be subject to Him". There is rank in our Father's Kingdom. "and He sat down at the right hand of the Father". This typlifies place or authority. Jesus never takes over the Father's throne. All rule is given to Him by the Father. But the Father still sits on His throne. There is rank and order in our Father's Kingdom. And this is what Paul was speaking about when He said "to strive for the prize of the high calling of God in Jesus Christ" ,, there are those that will "sit with Him " in His throne and will rule and reigne with Him a thousand years.

As for the "if it be possible let this cup pass from me" BUT "nevertheless not my will but thine be done".

As all things in the New Testament is fulfillment of the Old Testament. Jesus "the second Adam" had to come to the place where He was faced with a decision. His will or God's will.

Adam came to that place in the garden of eden and chose his own will over the Father's. In order for Jesus to rectify and to fulfill all things , He had to come to the valley of decision and be faced with the same thing as the first adam. His will or His Father's will. The first adam made the wrong choice. The second Adam made the right choice.

And this was also done as an ensample for us as well. Because Jesus came to show us the way that each one of us must go. As He is the WAY.

We all have to pass through two gardens just as Jesus did. For He is The Pattern Son. We must take up our cross and follow Him.

The first garden that we must go through is the garden of gethemene. (Valley of Decesion) (there is much in the scripture's about this valley of decision/gates etc) that we must pass through in our "spiritual walk" IN Jesus. We must too come to a place in our lives where we completely lay down our will. Choose God's will in all things. Even unto death. We each will be brought to a place in our spiritual walk where we will have to make that choice as well. And when we do , we will go on to the second garden.

The Garden Tomb. When we go through the garden tomb it is when our flesh has been completely crucified. We are completely dead to self. We are dead. The adamic fleshly carnal nature is dead. We will have overcome the fleshy adamic nature and it will be no longer I that lives but Christ liveth IN ME.

We all will have to go this same way as Jesus did. We all will have to go through the valley of decision the same as Jesus did. And if we are to go on to ressurection life then we must go on to the garden tomb and completely die to self.

and then we go on to resurection life and the ascension!!

Being raised to new heights IN HIM and HIM IN US !

As the Kingdom of God is within , these things are all "spiritual things" which must occur within each one of us. For all things are but types and shadow's of spiritual things which must happen within each one of us.

Jesus will be raised up within us and we will have the "fullness" of Christ Jesus within but we must go through the valley of decision (garden of gethemene) and lay down our will completely and die to self, crucifying the flesh , and then we will go on to "have resurrection life now" . The Life of the Resurrected Christ within! It is not for some far off time sometime in the future. But the "first resurrection" must be fulfilled spiritually within first. Christ must be fully formed within. Christ must raise up within each of us. And then there is the "ascension". Which also must be fulfilled within as the Kingdom of God is "within" each one of us.

But the WAY is not easy! That is why Jesus sweat great drops of blood! He knew very well what was before Him! And if we want to go the same way and follow Him and be where He is, we too know very well what is before us. Complete dying to self , laying down our will for the Father's will in all things will not be and is not easy. We must crucify the flesh! We must overcome all things of the flesh. For it is the "carnal" mind that is "enmity" against God! Just stop and think for one minute. How many times in just one day that our own will is chosen over God's will. No saints , this is not an easy path to follow but if we desire to go on with Christ. To be where He is , to enter into the heavenly realms , then we too must go through "two gardens" , Just as Jesus did.

Jesus wasn't looking for alterior ways, He was righting what was done in the Garden of Eden. And the Garden of Eden is the third Garden. It is PARADISE!

Think about this for a moment. If Jesus was lowered to this earthly realm. The realm of death. Then the whole 33 1/2 years He walked the earth He was walking in the death realm. The crucifiction was death to His mortal body yes , but we all know it isn't about these tents we are in, it is about the spiritual man within these tents. So Jesus walked in the realm of death for 33 1/3 years. Can you even imagine what it would of been like for Him. To come from Glory to this earthly realm to be limited by His flesh and blood body for all that time? To Him the crucifixtion was "the end of death" and "the begining of life"! He knew full well where He came from and where He was going back too. See for yourselves in the prayer in John 17. But because He was "in the flesh body" He knew the horror He would have to endure as well. And He experienced every last little thing the scriptures say He experienced. For He was fully human as well!

And He made the right choice and reversed what the first adam had done. So that we too will be able to walk with God in the cool of garden of Eden. In Paradise. Don't think for one second that any of this is "literal" in a physical sense to us. But it is "literal" in a spiritual sense. For Jesus Christ is "literally Spirit". And that is the TRUE REALITY.

Kathy

 

[Gary]

Arrogance.... those who believe THEY would have been different from the disciples who walked with Jesus and who, initially, fled when Jesus was arrested. (By the way, it is entirely possible that some of the disciples were there at the crucifixion..... remember, Peter was already back at Jesus' trial.)

Then the arrogance of the non-believers like Quath who is, today, happy to kill and even PAY for the killing of an innocent unborn baby..... Quath says he can find no guilt. Jesus was innocent. Like Pilot he fails to see "the Truth" even when He is right in front of him. So he washes his hands and continues to promote abortion.

Arrogance that any of us would have acted differently....

We continue to crucify Jesus every day. We are all guilty.

:

 

[Vic C.]

Arrogance.... those who believe THEY would have been different from the disciples who walked with Jesus and who, initially, fled when Jesus was arrested. (By the way, it is entirely possible that some of the disciples were there at the crucifixion..... remember, Peter was already back at Jesus' trial.)...

...Arrogance that any of us would have acted differently....

We continue to crucify Jesus every day. We are all guilty.

:

AMEN, Brother Gary. :angel:

Plus, not only is it possible some of His Disciples were there, the NT tells us some were. This is a lie propagated by Islam. We have this passage for one...

John 19:25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
John 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
John 19:27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

And Soma...

Typical Fundamentalist thinking seems to imply that THERE COULDNT POSSIBLY BE ANOTHER WAY TO RECTIFY THE SIN PROBLEM IN THAT GOD HIMSELF IS NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH TO REINSTATE HUMANITY IN HIS FAVOR WITHOUT BLOODSHED..... Even though Jesus obviously didnt want to die and possibly had His own ideas for humanity,(apart from Jewish sacrificial customs) the Cross was still made a reality due to His lesser authority than God the Father.

Who said there couldn't have been more than one way? That isn't the issue. The issue is... which way was the Ultimate Way? Which way was God's will? If you really think there was a "better" plan, then why did God not use it instead? Also, what makes you think for one instant God would have even allow you to interfere with His will?

Soma, God has always used the shedding of blood to 'cover' sin almost from the very beginning. He sacrificed the lives of animals to 'cover' Adam and Eve from their nakedness. He instituted sacrifices as a way to 'cover' the sins of the Israelites. The model of things to come was when God asked Abraham to offer up his son Isaac as an act of love and obedience. He loved the LORD so much he was willing to sacrifice his own flesh and blood. His was faith was strong as he said... "My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together."

Starting to sound familar? Hmm...

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

and what is commonly called the Gospel in a nutshell...

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Soma, He was crucifed before time. There was or is nothing ANY of us could have done about it. This type of poll and questioning can only point out personal character traits in a person. It does squat for our salvation.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Soma, He was crucifed before time. There was or is nothing ANY of us could have done about it. This type of poll and questioning can only point out personal character traits in a person. It does squat for our salvation.

Great posts vic,

I just am a little slow (mentally) and have trouble understanding the "solid food" that Paul spoke of.

I am still working on the "milk"! :-D

 

[lovely]

Amen, Gary and Vic. Isaiah 53:10

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Blessings