Yahweh/Jesus

[Hitch]

Can there be any real purpose in making sure to use an Anglicanized version of our Lord's Hebrew name over the Hellenistic?

 

[Fedusenko]

Yahweh is not Jesus' Hebrew name...

 

[handy]

I understand that Jesus' name in His spoken language here on earth would be Yeshua.

However, I think He answers to Jesus, Jesu, Yesu, Lesu, Jezus, or any of the ways His people call upon Him in their own language.

I know some folks who speak Anglican (English) say Yeshua, but is there any problem with folks who grow up speaking English just saying Jesus?

 

[Drummer4Christ]

@Hitch

When the Bible mentions "names", it is referring to a persons "title".

"Immanuel" means God with us.
"Yeshua" means God saves.

I don't think our western rendering of "Jesus" (or "Jehovah", for that matter) affects our understanding of God's nature, despite anglicization.

 

[elijah23]

Can there be any real purpose in making sure to use an Anglicanized version of our Lord's Hebrew name over the Hellenistic?

I can think of none. I call the Lord "Father," or "Jesus," or "Lord," or "God," usually.

 

[Fedusenko]

@Hitch
When the Bible mentions "names", it is referring to a persons "title".

Can you source that? Populations around the world attach meanings to names, but do not claim them as titles or description of a person. That would be closer to the purpose of last names such as Barabbus, or son of Abbus.

I prefer to call people by their name, not my pronunciation. Michel from France isn't Michael or Michal or Mikkel or Michiel. They are similar, but not the same.

 

[jasoncran]

Can you source that? Populations around the world attach meanings to names, but do not claim them as titles or description of a person. That would be closer to the purpose of last names such as Barabbus, or son of Abbus.

I prefer to call people by their name, not my pronunciation. Michel from France isn't Michael or Michal or Mikkel or Michiel. They are similar, but not the same.

well if you really be like that. the YHWH isnt even pronounced. its vowels are lost save the a sound.

so most jews say heshem or G-d or use adonai. so that the name of the LORD isnt blasphemed.

 

[Fedusenko]

Actually, YHWH is pronounced, but only by the priests in the most holy of holies. God's name is not spoken at other times, not because it is forbidden by God, but because they are so afraid to use His name casually that they simply don't say it at all. Calling on our god by His name isn't blasphemy, but using it casually is.

Example: Yahweh is a just and patient god.

If He did not want me to call on him or spread his good name, then I doubt he would have given it. If anything 'God' is a title as is Adonia. I do not chose to call the one and only god the title of an English land owner and I believe that He appreciates it.

 

[jasoncran]

Actually, YHWH is pronounced, but only by the priests in the most holy of holies. God's name is not spoken at other times, not because it is forbidden by God, but because they are so afraid to use His name casually that they simply don't say it at all. Calling on our god by His name isn't blasphemy, but using it casually is.

Example: Yahweh is a just and patient god.

If He did not want me to call on him or spread his good name, then I doubt he would have given it. If anything 'God' is a title as is Adonia. I do not chose to call the one and only god the title of an English land owner and I believe that He appreciates it.

no its not. the name of YHWH isnt pronounced.

i do go to jewish sites and read what they say. they choose to do that so that the name is revered.

they never say it yahweh at all its YHWH all the time and if its said or written in the tanach like mine its the hebrew for it!

so doing that for them is wrong? while i dont but i understand why and the YHWH has

five names to them that include

adonai
elohim
the heshem
YHWH

if i recall correctly and that is from them saying that.

even the letters have meaning.

 

[Fedusenko]

I am glad that you do, but so do I. I also visit synagogues a well. If you want to fuller understanding you must go to many as there is an array of practices that happen in some congregations that may not happen in others.

Correction: Priests did say the name of God in the Holy of Holies. We currently do not have access to it, so they don't say it there anymore.

As for the difference between names and titles I will point you to the Oracles of Yah

I am YHWH your Eloh who has brought you out from the land of Egypt from the house of bondage

You can see that Yahweh clearly identifies himself and then his title, Eloh, God.

You will find that the word El and Eloh are singular and more superior forms of Elohim which simply means 'divine beings'. That includes angels and cherubs, and whatever heavenly being. Interestingly enough, the word for angel does not mean 'winged guy wearing a gown', but simply 'messenger'. Yeshua was an angel. In this same respect, Yahweh was a messenger, too.

As I said, Adonai is an English land owner, Lord, not a name. It is just a title that shows rulership over those on his land.

Finally, HaShem means 'The Name'. It is similarly used to 'He who should not be named' in that the fear of uttering Voldemort's name would incur his wrath.

So you can see that there is only one name in your list and the rest are titles.

 

[Lewis]

I use both names Jesus and Yeshua. And I know for sure that they did not call him Jesus when He walked the earth.

 

[jasoncran]

I am glad that you do, but so do I. I also visit synagogues a well. If you want to fuller understanding you must go to many as there is an array of practices that happen in some congregations that may not happen in others.

Correction: Priests did say the name of God in the Holy of Holies. We currently do not have access to it, so they don't say it there anymore.

As for the difference between names and titles I will point you to the Oracles of Yah


You can see that Yahweh clearly identifies himself and then his title, Eloh, God.

You will find that the word El and Eloh are singular and more superior forms of Elohim which simply means 'divine beings'. That includes angels and cherubs, and whatever heavenly being. Interestingly enough, the word for angel does not mean 'winged guy wearing a gown', but simply 'messenger'. Yeshua was an angel. In this same respect, Yahweh was a messenger, too.

As I said, Adonai is an English land owner, Lord, not a name. It is just a title that shows rulership over those on his land.

Finally, HaShem means 'The Name'. It is similarly used to 'He who should not be named' in that the fear of uttering Voldemort's name would incur his wrath.

So you can see that there is only one name in your list and the rest are titles.

that name has meaning if you take the letters as such, but i didnt to post stuff from hebraic gemetria and what that means.

if jeff comes back from his break , i will ask him to comment.

 

[Fedusenko]

I didn't either. I don't know what gemetria has to do with the context of my post, though I think it would be interesting to explore that subject. I invite Jeff to share his knowledge on the subject when he returns.

My concern is that I refer to Him the way He introduced himself. People talk about a 'personal' relationship. There are times where titles are appropriate, though.

 

[jasoncran]

I didn't either. I don't know what gemetria has to do with the context of my post, though I think it would be interesting to explore that subject. I invite Jeff to share his knowledge on the subject when he returns.

My concern is that I refer to Him the way He introduced himself. People talk about a 'personal' relationship. There are times where titles are appropriate, though.

jesus is often called malach YHWH in the old testament, by the gemetria(where 666 is used and points to men) its the name el shaddai and the good shepard.

<TABLE class=co_TanachTable border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class=Co_Verse><TD vAlign=top>21. Beware of him and obey him; do not rebel against him, for he will not forgive your transgression, for My Name is within him.</TD><TD class=Co_Spacer></TD><TD class=hebrew vAlign=top>כא. הִשָּׁמֶר מִפָּנָיו וּשְׁמַע בְּקֹלוֹ אַל תַּמֵּר בּוֹ כִּי לֹא יִשָּׂא לְפִשְׁעֲכֶם כִּי שְׁמִי בְּקִרְבּוֹ:</TD></TR><TR class=Co_Rashi><TD vAlign=top>do not rebel against him: Heb. ךְתַּמֵּר, an expression of rebellion הַמְרָאָה, like “Any man who rebels (יַמְרֶה) against your orders†(Josh. 1:18).</TD><TD class=Co_Spacer></TD><TD class=hebrew vAlign=top>אל תמר בו: לשון המראה, כמו (יהושע א יח) אשר ימרה את פיך:</TD></TR><TR class=Co_Rashi><TD vAlign=top>for he will not forgive your transgression: He is not accustomed to that [i.e., forgiving], for he is of the group that do not sin. And moreover, he is a messenger, and he can do only his mission. -[From Midrash Tanchuma 18]</TD><TD class=Co_Spacer></TD><TD class=hebrew vAlign=top>כי לא ישא לפשעכם: אינו מלומד בכך, שהוא מן הכת שאין חוטאין, ועוד שהוא שליח ואינו עושה אלא שליחותו:</TD></TR><TR class=Co_Rashi><TD vAlign=top>for My Name is within him: [This clause] is connected to the beginning of the verse: Beware of him because My Name is associated with him. Our Sages, however, said: This is [the angel] Metatron, whose name is like the name of his Master (Sanh. 38b). The numerical value of מֵטַטְרוֹן [314] equals that of שַׁדַּי [314]. -[From Tikunei Zohar 66b]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

from chabad.org.

with rashi commentary shemot 23:21 (exodus 23:21)

lets see metatron.

In opposition to this apology, Metatron is identified with the term "lesser YHWH", which is the Lesser Tetragrammaton, in a Talmudic version as cited by the Karaite scholar Kirkisani. The word Metatron is numerically equivalent to El Shaddai (God) in Hebrew gematria; therefore, he is said to have a "Name like his Master." It should be noted, however, that Kirkisani may have misrepresented the Talmud in order to embarrass his Rabbanite opponents with evidence of dualism. On the other hand, extra-talmudic mystical texts (see below regarding Sefer Hekhalot) do speak of a "lesser YHWH," apparently deriving the concept from Exodus 23:21, which mentions an angel of whom God says "my name [understood as YHWH, the usual divine Proper Name] is in him."

and from wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metatron

as you can see how this wouldnt sit well with christians.

of course many would condemn the gemetria but they dont have clue where the 666 thing came from.

 

[jasoncran]

understand that the third commandments mean really dont take my name lightly. of course using jesus christ in cursing manner is a sin but its more along the line of taking the lord lightly and thinking that the GOD of the universe isnt to be revered.

that is why the jews do what they do

 

[Fedusenko]

Very interesting.

 

[jasoncran]

theres more.

and it not off topic.

jesus if ya noticed claimed he was that good sheppard.

the very name of YHWH also my the meanings of the characther means lo behold, the cross,wood, behold. if i recall correctly

 

[Drummer4Christ]

Can you source that? Populations around the world attach meanings to names, but do not claim them as titles or description of a person. That would be closer to the purpose of last names such as Barabbus, or son of Abbus.

I prefer to call people by their name, not my pronunciation. Michel from France isn't Michael or Michal or Mikkel or Michiel. They are similar, but not the same.

That's why I mentioned "Immanuel". Jesus was also to be called "Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace" per Isaiah as well. Likewise, Yeshua is not merely a name such as "Mike". It literally means "God saves".

Adam, Eve, Enoch, Noah, Moses, David ect. Are not names but, descriptive titles of who those individuals were. God did not merely change Abram, Jacob, and Saul's name, He bestowed upon them new titles.

 

[Fedusenko]

But isn't that similar to folks calling someone Skink because they rock climb? Its a nick-name... but a name still. That is only with people who know about that trait, though. This is me reasoning it out...

As for Yeshua not just being a name such as Mike; Mike is a short hand for Michael meaning 'Who is like God'.

Can it be said that that Mr. President is a name? Obviously his name is Barack, but maybe also Mr. President. I see both sides, but ... I don't know. I suppose this might just be getting into semantics.

When praying/talking to Him, what do you use?

 

[Drummer4Christ]

As for Yeshua not just being a name such as Mike; Mike is a short hand for Michael meaning 'Who is like God'.

Exactly! That is my point.

When praying/talking to Him, what do you use?

Lord.

EDIT: Or do you mean whether I use Jesus vs Yeshua?

Mostly Jesus. However, I do believe it is important to emphasize Jesus & the early church's Hebrew roots and, how Gentiles were assimilated into the Jewish faith.

What about you?