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You are of Your Father the Devil

Drew

Member
From the gospel of Mark:

"I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." He said this because they were saying, "He has an evil spirit."

NT Wright (British theologian) comments (I added bolding)

Jesus does, though, add a warning, which has often been
misunderstood. What is this 'unforgivable sin' in verse 29?

His critics had painted themselves into a corner. Once you label what
is in fact the work of the Holy Spirit as the work of the devil,
there's no way back
. It's like holding a conspiracy theory: all the
evidence you see will simply confirm your belief.

I am extremely resistant to thinking or, worse, saying or writing, that someone is "of the devil". Some people on these forums do it all the time.

Are you guys not at all concerned that you may effectively be attributing the work of God to the devil. If you say that Fred is of the devil, and you turn out to be wrong, - Fred is actually bought through Jesus' blood - are not you effectively describing the work of God (the salvation of Fred) as a work of the devil?
 
Yeah, I think people should be more careful about what they say to others.
 
However, there's a big difference between saying that what Jesus does is of the devil and saying that any wickedness is of the devil. Of course, if we can't prove (by God's word) that something someone says is of the devil, we shouldn't say it, and whatever God's word says IS proof even if people choose not to believe it.
 
I'm not sure you have the right interpretation of those verses. The unpardonable sin cannot be committed today. Because the unpardonable sin was against Jesus. The Pharisees were attributing the miracles of God to Satan..... below will help to explain it better.....


The case of the "unpardonable sin / unforgivable sin" or "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" in the New Testament is mentioned in Mark 3:22-30 and in Matthew 12:22-32. The term blasphemy may be generally defined as "defiant irreverence." We would apply the term to such sins as cursing God or willfully degrading things relating to God. It is also attributing some evil to God, or denying Him some good that we should attribute to Him. This case of blasphemy however is a specific one, called "the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" in Matthew 12:31. In Matthew 12:31-32 the Pharisees, having witnessed irrefutable proof that Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, claimed instead that the Lord was possessed by the demon "Beelzebub" (Matthew 12:24). Now notice that in Mark 3:30 Jesus is very specific about what exactly they did to commit "the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit."



This blasphemy then has to do with someone accusing Jesus Christ (in person, on earth) of being demon-possessed. There are other ways to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, but this was "THE" blasphemy that was unpardonable. This means that this unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit cannot be duplicated today because Jesus Christ is not on earth but seated at the right Hand of God; however, the Holy Spirit still accomplishes supernatural things through His servants. Although there is no unpardonable sin today, we should always keep in mind there is an unpardonable state-the state of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in unbelief. Remember, John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have eternal life." The only condition when someone would have no forgiveness is if that someone is not among the 'whoever believes in Him.'"
http://www.gotquestions.org/unpardonable-sin.html


It appears that the situation of this unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit existed only while Christ was ministering on earth. The unpardonable sin, like the one in Matthew 12, cannot be committed today. We are not able to attribute to Satan the miracles of God, as performed by Jesus Christ.

However, when people reject Jesus Christ and His gift of eternal life, they are in a sense committing the unpardonable sin of unbelief. Anyone who desires to be saved by God's grace, has not committed the unpardonable sin. However, a person who lives in rejection and unbelief until his death, will not be pardoned. This person will spend an eternity in hell apart from God. 2 Corinthians 7:10 says, "Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death." Those who sincerely desire God's forgiveness will receive it! All you need to do is to believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose three days later. Then you confess and repent of your sins ans ask Jesus into your life as your Lord and Savior. You are then saved by grace through faith.
I don't have the link to this one sorry.


I agree with a host of biblical scholars that this unique circumstance cannot be duplicated today. The Pharisees had seen proof of Christ's deity. But instead of acknowledging Jehovah God, they attributed the supernatural power to Satan instead of the work of the Holy Spirit.
Christ is not in the world as He was then. Although the Holy Spirit still accomplishes supernatural things through His servants, they are merely representatives of the King. The circumstances of Matthew 12 make it impossible for this sin to take place today. This incident, I might add, is the only one in which a sin is declared unforgivable. The Bible states, "Whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Romans 10:13). No invitation to salvation carries with it an exception clause, "unless you have committed the unpardonable sin."
No matter how evil our sins, there is pardon for them. God forgave David for his adultery, dishonesty, and murder (2 Samuel 12:13, Psalm 51). Simon Peter's denial of our Lord accompanied by profanity was forgiven (Matthew 26:74-75). The apostle Paul was forgiven of his preconversion merciless persecution of Christians (Acts 9:1). Just about every possible sin is listed somewhere in the New Testament. And every one of them falls into the category of forgivable.


Although there is no unpardonable sin today, there is an unpardonable stateâ€â€the state of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in unbelief. The Bible refers to this in terms of having a hard heart. The hardening of the heart is not a one-time act. It is the result of a gradual progression in which sin and the conviction of the Holy Spirit are ignored. The hardened heart has no desire for the things of God. But if you have a desire in your heart for God, as expressed through concern that you have committed some sort of unpardonable sin, you do not have a hardened heart. Your concern confirms your innocence. God always welcomes those whose hearts are sensitive toward Him.

http://www.intouch.org/myintouch/explor ... 29541.html
 
reply

I know what you are saying is true, but what about someone who is a believer that does deny Christ after he is saved? How do you interpret Hebrews 6:4-6? Also 1 John 5:16-17? I use to believe OSAS, but I really do think one lose their salvation under the conditions of Hebrews 6:4-6, but I don't think this happens very much. And one of the conditions is that one must be spirit-filled according to what is written in Hebrews. Also, if we continue to live in sin, there is a danger lurking that it could lead to denial of Jesus Christ. But this has to be done publically in front of witnessess.



May God bless, golfjack
 
Hi Judy:

I never intended to suggest that calling someone a child of the devil was committing the unpardonable, although I fully understand that someone might think that this is what I was doing.

I think that we still need to be exceedingly cautious about suggesting that someone is a follower of Satan. If it turns out that we are wrong, then we are indeed attributing a work of the Father to the Devil - if Fred is actually a child of God, and not a follower of Satan, then to call him a child of Satan is, to use your words "denying Him (God) some good that we should attribute to Him". I hope this is clear: if Fred's eternal salvation has been bought with Christ's blood, then to claim that Fred is a follower of Satan is to "deny him some good (the salvation of Fred) that we should attribute to Him."

Some of you may think I am a "liberal" type of Christian. Whether or not I meet some kind of definition to that effect, I know one thing - I am scared of the thought of having to face God and explain how I attributed His sacrificial work on the cross to the Devil, even if such an act does not technically meet the criteria of being an unpardonable sin.

I have a feeling that as I flip through my Bible and explain to Him how this technically is not the unpardonable sin, He won't be all that impressed.
 
I agree with a host of biblical scholars that this unique circumstance cannot be duplicated today. The Pharisees had seen proof of Christ's deity. But instead of acknowledging Jehovah God, they attributed the supernatural power to Satan instead of the work of the Holy Spirit.

Judy-I know the subject of tongues has been discussed many times. However, if someone today attributes this gift(in all cases) to that of the devils works, I believe it to be an unpardonable sin. I see no difference in this today or 2000 years ago. Blasphemy is blasphemy regardless the time span and this is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:2 (KJV) He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:6 (KJV) And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

How did Paul know they received the Holy Ghost? He heard them speak with tongues. To attribute this miracle with the work of Satan is the unpardonable sin spoken of and I believethe warning is just as much in affect today as then.
 
Re: reply

golfjack said:
I know what you are saying is true, but what about someone who is a believer that does deny Christ after he is saved? How do you interpret Hebrews 6:4-6? Also 1 John 5:16-17? I use to believe OSAS, but I really do think one lose their salvation under the conditions of Hebrews 6:4-6, but I don't think this happens very much. And one of the conditions is that one must be spirit-filled according to what is written in Hebrews. Also, if we continue to live in sin, there is a danger lurking that it could lead to denial of Jesus Christ. But this has to be done publically in front of witnessess.



May God bless, golfjack

Here is what John MacArthur says about that subject.

Does Hebrews 6:4-6 teach that a true believer can lose his salvation?

Answer

No. In that passage, the writer of Hebrews is speaking to the unsaved who have heard the truth and acknowledged it, but who have hesitated to embrace Christ. The Holy Spirit warns them, “You had better come to Christ now, for if you fall away it will be impossible for you to come again to the point of repentance.†They were at the best point for repentance–full knowledge. To fall back from that would be fatal.

Because they believe the warning is addressed to Christians, many interpreters hold that the passage teaches that salvation can be lost. If this interpretation were true, however, the passage would also teach that, once lost, salvation could never be regained. There would be no going back and forth, in and out of grace. But Christians are not being addressed, and it is the opportunity for receiving salvation, not salvation itself, that can be lost.

The believer need never fear he will lose his salvation. He cannot. The Bible is absolutely clear about that. Jesus said, “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand†(John 10:27-29; see also Rom. 8:35-39; Phil. 1:6; and 1 Pet. 1:4-5).

If you are in Christ, rejoice. Your salvation is secure forever.

here is another link to that question...... http://www.middletree.net/hebrews6.asp
 
reply

Well, that is one man's opinion Judy. What is your take on it? What I said was taught to me at Rhema Bible institute by the late Kenneth Hagin. John Mcarthur I believes has taken his beliefs from Calvanism, which to me don't hold any matter when it comes to this topic. Also, he is flat out wrong about his take on Charismatics. When He talks about the Holy Spirit Gifts, he doesn't haven't a clue what he is talking about. Therefore, you have your earthly teachers and I have mine. For sure, your teachers are just as saved as mine. And I suspect that you are not spirit-filled, so you have nothing to worry about.



May God bless, golfjack
 
Judy said:
Here is what John MacArthur says about that subject.

Does Hebrews 6:4-6 teach that a true believer can lose his salvation?

Answer

No. In that passage, the writer of Hebrews is speaking to the unsaved who have heard the truth and acknowledged it, but who have hesitated to embrace Christ. The Holy Spirit warns them, “You had better come to Christ now, for if you fall away it will be impossible for you to come again to the point of repentance.†They were at the best point for repentance–full knowledge. To fall back from that would be fatal.


If you are in Christ, rejoice. Your salvation is secure forever.

here is another link to that question...... http://www.middletree.net/hebrews6.asp

Heb 6:4 reads For the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit and have tasted of the good word of God and the powers of the age to come and then have fallen away . . .

There is no way to soften the 'fear and trembling' contained in this passage - MacArthur fails I think - to hold in paradox the passages you mention that speak about the eternal security of the believer with Heb 6: 1-8.

In Christ: Stranger
 
Ok, then maybe Spurgeon can help you out... I will only post part of it it is to long to post the whole thing. But you can read the rest here.
http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0075.htm

Moreover, to fall away is not to commit sin. under a temporary surprise and temptation. Abraham goes to Egypt; he is afraid that his wife will be taken away from him, and he says, "She is my sister." That was a sin under a temporary surpriseâ€â€a sin, of which, by-and-by, he repented, and God forgave him. Now that is falling; but it is not falling away. Even Noah might commit a sin, which has degraded his memory even till now, and shall disgrace it to the latest time; but doubtless, Noah repented, and was saved by sovereign grace. Noah fell, but Noah did not fall away. A Christian may go astray once, and speedily return again; and though it is a sad, and woeful, and evil thing to be surprised into a sin, yet there is a great difference between this and the sin which would be occasioned by a total falling away from grace.
Nor can a man who commits a sin, which is not exactly a surprise, be said to fall away. I believe that some Christian menâ€â€(God forbid that we should say much of it!â€â€let us cover the nakedness of our brother with a cloak.) but I do believe that there are some Christians who, for a period of time, have wandered into sin, and yet have not positively fallen away. There is that black case of Davidâ€â€a case which has puzzled thousands. Certainly for some months, David lived without making a public confession of his sin, but, doubtless, he had achings of heart, for grace had not ceased its work: there was a spark among the ashes that Nathan stirred up, which showed that David was not dead, or else the match which the prophet applied would not have caught light so readily. And so, beloved, you may have wandered into sin for a time, and gone far from God; and yet you are not the character here described, concerning whom it is said, that it is impossible you should be saved; but, wanderer though you be, you are your father's son still, and mercy cries, "Repent, repent; return unto your first husband, for then it was better with you than it is now. Return, O wanderer, return."
Again, falling away is not even a giving up of profession. Some will say, "Now there is So-and-so; he used to make a profession of Christianity, and now he denies it, and what is worse, he dares to curse and swear, and says that he never knew Christ at all. Surely he must be fallen away." My friend, he has fallen, fallen fearfully, and fallen woefully; but I remember a case in Scripture of a man who denied his Lord and Master before his own face. You remember his name; he is an old friend of yoursâ€â€our friend Simon Peter! he denied him with oaths and curses, and said, "I say unto thee that I know not the man." And yet Jesus looked on Simon. He had fallen, but he had not fallen away; for, only two or three days after that, there was Peter at the tomb of his Master, running there to meet his Lord, to be one of the first to find him risen. Beloved, you may even have denied Christ by open profession, and yet if you repent there is mercy for you. Christ has not cast you away, you shall repent yet. You have not fallen away. If you had, I might not preach to you; for it is impossible for those who have fallen away to be renewed again unto repentance.
But some one says, "What is falling away?" Well, there never has been a case of it yet, and therefore I cannot describe it from observation; but I will tell you what I suppose it is. To fall away, would be for the Holy Spirit entirely to go out of a manâ€â€for his grace entirely to cease; not to lie dormant, but to cease to beâ€â€for God, who has begun a good work, to leave off doing it entirelyâ€â€to take his hand completely and entirely away, and say, "There, man! I have half saved thee; now I will damn thee." That is what falling away is. It is not to sin temporarily. A child may sin against his father, and still be alive; but falling away is like cutting the child's head off clean. Not falling merely, for then our Father could pick us up, but being dashed down a precipice, where we are lost for ever. Falling away would involved God's grace changing its living nature. God's immutability becoming variable, God's faithfulness becoming changeable, and God, himself being undeified; for all these things falling away would necessitate.
 
reply

Judy, I am sorry that I mis-labeled you, but thought you did not pray in tongues, which is evidence of being filled with Holy Spirit. You see Tongues is a free gift like Salvation, but one must ask for it. The gifts of the Spirit are distributed by God as He sees fit. You see, You see, If you want to receive the power of God to heal, you must be spirit-filled. As far As spurgeon goes, he is just one the reformers who believed in Calvinism, and you must know I don't subscribe to that because to me, it is not Biblical.



May God bless, golfjack
 
Re: reply

golfjack said:
Judy, I am sorry that I mis-labeled you, but thought you did not pray in tongues, which is evidence of being filled with Holy Spirit. You see Tongues is a free gift like Salvation, but one must ask for it. The gifts of the Spirit are distributed by God as He sees fit. You see, You see, If you want to receive the power of God to heal, you must be spirit-filled. As far As spurgeon goes, he is just one the reformers who believed in Calvinism, and you must know I don't subscribe to that because to me, it is not Biblical.



May God bless, golfjack

I think we have hi-jacked Drew's topic enough. If you would like to start your own topic please do so.
 
Drew
Since I percieve you addressed this thread to me :wink: I will atleast give my two cents worth.....

Lets look at the context of this Scripture

13 And He went up on the mountain and called to Him those He Himself wanted. And they came to Him. 14 Then He appointed twelve, that they might be with Him and that He might send them out to preach, 15 and to have power to heal sicknesses and to cast out demons: 16 Simon, to whom He gave the name Peter; 17 James the son of Zebedee and John the brother of James, to whom He gave the name Boanerges, that is, "Sons of Thunder"; 18 Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, Thaddaeus, Simon the Cananite; 19 and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him. And they went into a house.
20 Then the multitude came together again, so that they could not so much as eat bread. 21 But when His own people heard about this, they went out to lay hold of Him, for they said, "He is out of His mind."
22 And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, "He has Beelzebub," and, "By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons."
23 So He called them to Himself and said to them in parables: "How can Satan cast out Satan? 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 And if a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26 And if Satan has risen up against himself, and is divided, he cannot stand, but has an end. 27 No one can enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. And then he will plunder his house.
28 "Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation"- 30 because they said, "He has an unclean spirit."


OK Drew
There was such A huge multitude of people gathered that He and His apostles were kept too busy to eat. Hearing of His activities, His own people felt that He was out of His mind, and sought to take Him away. Doubtless they were embarrassed by the zeal of this religious fanatic in the family.

Tell me if this is not true; that a man who is on fire for God seems deranged to his contemporaries. The more like Christ we are, the more we too will experience the sorrow of being misunderstood by relatives and friends. If we set out to make a fortune, men will cheer us. If we are fanatics for Jesus Christ, they will jeer us. How many of you guys and gals can relate?

The scribes did not think He was insane. They accused Him of casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons. The name Beelzebub means “lord of dung flies†or “lord of filth.†This was a serious, vile, and blasphemous charge!
OK, First Jesus refuted it, then pronounced the doom of those who made it. If He were casting out demons by Beelzebub, then Satan would be working against himself, frustrating his own purposes. His aim is to control men through demons, not to free them from demons.

A kingdom, a house, or a person divided against himself cannot endure. Continued survival depends upon internal cooperation, not antagonism.

So Drew. Let me ask you or better yet tell why I called this priest a child of satan or of the devil. I used this scripture to rebuke him in Jesus name.

Lets look at John 8
43 Why do you not understand My speech? (whos speech? Gods speech, his word) Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, ( Why can't this preist listen to the what the word of God clearly teaches? )and the desires of your father you want to do. (what desires is Jesus speaking about? May I suggest earthly desires such as Homosexuality for one)He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. (Now is this not interesting. He speaks lies from his own resources. What lies are these. I will name two. That Jesus is a liberal and that Homosexuality is not a sin.... and whom does Jesus say he gets his resources from ? I will tell you. The father of lies, the devil himself.... This is a black and white issue)

Lets continue here...The scribes’ accusation was therefore preposterous. In fact, the Lord Jesus was doing the very opposite of what they said. Sound familiar as in with this preist. His miracles signified the downfall of Satan rather than his prowess. That is what the Savior meant when He said, “No one can enter a strong man’s house, and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. And then he will plunder his house.â€Â
Satan is the strong man. The house is his dominion; he is the god of this age. People often don't know this or don't want to fess up to this fact because its uncomfortable. Liberals especially hate this....His goods are the people over whom he holds sway. Jesus is the One who binds Satan and plunders his house. We can't do it unless Jesus does it through us.....At Christ’s Second coming, Satan will be bound and cast into the bottomless pit for one thousand years. The Savior’s casting out of demons during His ministry on earth was a forecast of His eventual complete binding of the devil.This is not to say there are no demons today, because trust me there are some lurking in this 123 forum.....
In verses 28–30, the Lord pronounced the doom of the scribes who were guilty of the unpardonable sin. In accusing Jesus of casting out demons by demonic power, when it was actually by the power of the Holy Spirit that He did it, they in effect called the Holy Spirit a demon. This is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. All kinds of sin can be forgiven, but this particular sin has no forgiveness. It is an eternal sin.

Can people commit this sin today? I agree with Judy... I don't think so. It was a sin committed when Jesus was on earth performing miracles Look at the context. Since He is not physically on earth today, casting out demons, the same possibility of blaspheming the Holy Spirit does not exist. If anything this is affirming Jesus Diety as this sin is against the third part of the trinity. You do believe in the trinity, right Drew?

People who worry that they have committed the unpardonable sin have not done so. The very fact that they are concerned indicates that they are not guilty of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. I can tell you for a certain that I have seen demon possessed people set free who done and said things that would shock you including human Sacrifice and are now serving the Lord Jesus Christ... Now I do not hold to the OSAS because I believe people can refuse there salvation or reject it. But ''NO ONE WHO IS A CHILD OF GOD CAN EVER LOOSE IT'' because it is a free gift. The only way is to give the gift back. Would a true child of God do this? NO... I know I sound like i contridcted myself, but think about... Just think about it.

So Drew. Would I call this priest a child of Satan? Yes!!!!!!
If he repented I would be the first to embrace him, pray with him, welcome him to my home for thanksgiving and would love to fellowship with him. But while he is here in ''my house'' , teaching heresy, and with an unrepentant heart, who welcomes sin and has made sin his friend and is at peace with it, I will not sit back and do nothing.

Like I said.. A kingdom, a house, or a person divided against himself cannot endure. Continued survival depends upon internal cooperation, not antagonism.


I know this is long, but its important that I defend my position along with Oscars, Solos and any other Christian on this board whom I have seen use these scriptures to defend the Gospel of Jesus Christ...
 
jgredline said:
I know this is long, but its important that I defend my position along with Oscars, Solos and any other Christian on this board whom I have seen use these scriptures to defend the Gospel of Jesus Christ...

Using those scriptures to defend one's position is one thing. HOW those scriptures have been used and the aggressive and derogatory tone behind them, however, is quite another.
 
jgredline said:
So Drew. Would I call this priest a child of Satan? Yes!!!!!!
If he repented I would be the first to embrace him, pray with him, welcome him to my home for thanksgiving and would love to fellowship with him. But while he is here in ''my house'' , teaching heresy, and with an unrepentant heart, who welcomes sin and has made sin his friend and is at peace with it, I will not sit back and do nothing.

I know this is long, but its important that I defend my position along with Oscars, Solos and any other Christian on this board whom I have seen use these scriptures to defend the Gospel of Jesus Christ...

I think Drew's OP has been born out of the cavalier way that phrase has been bandied about and applied. Some have used this phrase simply because some of us deny eternal torment.

Now I don't recall anything in the bible about even Christ calling the Sadducees 'followers of the devil' for rejecting resurrection. However, we, who challenge a doctrine with myriads of clear biblical evidence have this moniker applied to us.

Let's really look at the facts here...

By providing biblical evidence, we have disputed (or at the very least shown that either option could be valid) that God is not a blood thirsty monster to allow trillions of years of fiery torture (which to the outsider seems like an incredibly horrific view of God) to show that God allows sin to take its natural course and be destroyed along with the world.

Then some come along on this forum and basically consign us to hell for teaching 'doctrines of demons' even though everything we say can be biblically supported. We are called 'children of the devil' for biblically putting God's character in a loving, just and merciful manner, all of which these things He is.

This is the biggest problem some of us have. It is not fair or Christian to slap this label on someone simply because you can't refute their evidence.

We could say the exact same thing about those who believe in eternal torment if you really wanted to get logical.

The question Drew is putting forth is: why do we have the right to say this to others based on OUR interpretation of what we perceive to be 'false doctrine'? Nobody is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Nobody is denying the deity of Christ. Why should we be condemned by some on this forum in such a manner then?
 
Judy said:
Ok, then maybe Spurgeon can help you out... I will only post part of it it is to long to post the whole thing. But you can read the rest here.
http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0075.htm

quote]

Yes - he may not have buckled as I perceive others have when confronted by this 'hard saying of scripture'. Rest assured that I place the truth of scripture above my personal comfort.

In Christ: Stranger
 
Based on what i've been reading, people just want to be treated with respect. Condemn their doctrine but don't take it to a personal level and don't defend those who do.
Some people think they are rejected and reviled because they speak the truth; this is deceptive thinking when you speak the truth in a condescending way.
You aren't rejected and disliked because you are like Jesus when this happens, you are rejected and rebelled against because of ego, pride, immaturity and fruitlessness. People really need to get that straight.

I've never seen quite as much strife as i've wittnessed on this board over the past weeks. Theres a lot of head knowledge and no actual fruits of the spirit.
I think it takes wisdom, maturity, and humility to lead things in the right direction and debate only the topic. We need to esteem others better than ourselves, as people. That doesn't mean you have to compromise your beliefs one bit!
Anyway, thats my opinion based on what i've been observing. Good night
 
I agree 100% with destiny and couldn't have put my thoughts any better.

The only question I have for this discussion is, I do not understand how the 'unpardonable sin' can no more be committed? This sin is to have been committed against the (work) of the Holy Spirit and not against Yeshua. To reason that since Yeshua is in heaven at the right hand of God, hence this sin cannot be possible seems faulty. Scripture does not read “one who blasphemes the Son of God commits unpardonable sin†but “blasphemes the Holy Spiritâ€Â. I don’t think that anyone denies that Holy Spirit is actively working in every Christian’s life. Now if anyone can call this work to be of the devil isn’t he blaspheming against the Holy Spirit? Does this work directly have to be performed by Yeshua to become unpardonable, because scripture doesn’t suggest so.

So I beg to differ on the statement that the unpardonable sin cannot be committed anymore.

Personally, I agree that one should judge and discern but passing judgment should be left to God and Yeshua. We are called to be priests and saints of God not judge and jury.
 
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