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You are of Your Father the Devil

jg
I am more than sure that this was directed at me. I am more than cool with that. The way I see it is simple.

Jesus said you are with me or your not.

Jesus also said the world will hate you because you are mine.

Now I have admited that perhaps my methods go a little over board, but it is only because I was in a cult before.

You see God saved me from false teachers like Guibox, drew, cp mike, sput, tan ninety and john the baptist.

It was not until I started coming here that God opened my eyes to the Trinity and most important that Jesus is God. I learned that Hell is a real place and that it is eternal, I learned that this doctrine of soul sleep is of the devil.

So it is fitting that a false teacher would start this thread as those words in mark condem him.

Some you false teachers right now are getting upset with me and saying to your self. See, this is what I am talking about.

While the Christians here are saying way to go Oscar, although they won't admit it.

What I don't understand is why are you false teachers Guibox, drew, cp mike, sput, tan ninety and john the baptist even here?

Why not go to a forum where you will be with your kind? People who believe the way you do. I joined a mormon forum and because I was preaching against there TOS, i got banned after 8 post :-? I know your now thinking, Oh they should kick him out of here. Perhaps they will. I pray not, but if it be it be.

One of the things Christians do is pray. I am not sure you guys know this or not. Here is an observation that I have made. You guys Guibox, drew, cp mike, sput, tan ninety and john the baptist. for the most part hang out in oppologetcs and bible study. Thats it. Why don't you guys post in the Christian forums like the prayer forum. I could not find a single post from any of you that has posted there. Why is that? I see the Christians posting there. When was the last time you guys were a source of encoragment?

When was the last time you talked about anything other than hell or the soul?

Really may the Lord Jesus Rebuke you guys until you repent.
 
Look guys and gals, it ALL boils down to ONE thing. And that thing is this: BEWARE of HOW you choose to judge another. We are NOT to judge an individual PERIOD. We ARE CERTAINLY able and SHOULD judge the actions of others, but to offer that they are 'saved' or 'unsaved', of Christ or of the Devil, THIS is how we are NOT to judge one another.

There seems to be this OVERWHELMING understanding now days that it's OK to judge others if they are 'not like us'. That those that have 'different' beliefs are not worthy of our love and compasion. This is EXACTLY what Christ came to teach us. That we ARE NOT to judge our brothers and sisters and that we are ALL brothers and sisters. Some are our brothers and sister IN CHRIST and some are NOT, but that we are ALL BROTHERS AND SISTERS, in this thing TOGETHER is WITHOUT DOUBT when one comes to the understanding of the message of Christ.

I don't know if it's personal pride or something taught by the churches or WHAT it is that makes some think that they ONLY have brothers and sisters in Christ. We are to do WHATEVER we can to help WHOEVER we can WHENEVER we can. That is NOT specific to 'those that have accepted Christ'.

Now, are we to 'hang out' with those that refute the teachings of Our Savior? Probably not a 'good idea'. But we ARE to offer them the love that Christ has offered us REGARDLESS of their beliefs or even in spite or their treatment towards us. Remember, while we were yet ENEMIES of God, He sent His Son who WILLINGLY chose to offer up His life for us. THAT is the example that we are COMMANDED to live by.

MEC
 
oscar3 said:
You see God saved me from false teachers like Guibox, drew, cp mike, sput, tan ninety and john the baptist.
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To steal a line from Gandalf from the Lord of the Rings:

That word comes too oft and easy from your lips.
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For those who elect to not take the higher road of letting their arguments do the talking, the characterization of those with whom they disagree as "followers of Satan" and / or "false teachers" is the only game in town.

Of course, any reader who comes to these forums with an earnest desire to seek truth will likely not be won over by name-calling, but rather by high quality Biblical arguments delivered without the usual tired set of rhetorical assaults.

And, by contrast, those who seek to have their views legitimized by content-impoverished character attacks on those of a differing mind - well, they too will also find what they are looking for.

Which category do you, the reader, fall in?
 
Matthew 7:1-6 1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. 6 Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

Ok, so what does all this mean?

Matthew 7:1-6

7:1 Sometimes these words of our Lord are misconstrued by people to prohibit all forms of judgment. No matter what happens, they piously say, “Judge not, that you be not judged. But Jesus is not teaching that we are to be undiscerning Christians. He never intended that we abandon our critical faculty or discernment. The NT has many illustrations of legitimate judgment of the condition, conduct, or teaching of others. In addition, there are several areas in which the Christian is commanded to make a decision, to discriminate between good and bad or between good and best. Some of these include:

1. When disputes arise between believers, they should be settled in the church before members who can decide the matter (1 Cor. 6:18).

2. The local church is to judge serious sins of its members and take appropriate action (Matt. 18:17; 1 Cor. 5:9-13).

3. Believers are to judge the doctrinal teaching of teachers and preachers by the Word of God (Matt. 7:15-20; 1 Cor. 14:29; 1 Jn. 4:1).

4. Christians have to discern if others are believers in order to obey Pauls command in 2 Corinthians 6:14.

5. Those in the church must judge which men have the qualifications necessary for elders and deacons (1 Tim. 3:1-13).

6. We have to discern which people are unruly, faint hearted, weak, etc., and treat them according to the instructions in the Bible (e.g., 1 Thess. 5:14).

7:2 Jesus warned that unrighteous judgment would be repaid in kind: “For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged. This principle of reaping what we sow is built into all human life and affairs. Mark applies the principle to our appropriation of the Word (4:24) and Luke applies it to our liberality in giving (6:38).

7:35 Jesus exposed our tendency to see a small fault in someone else while ignoring the same fault in ourselves. He purposely exaggerated the situation (using a figure of speech known as hyperbole) to drive home the point. Someone with a plank in his eye often finds fault with the speck in the eye of another, not even noticing his own condition. It is hypocritical to suppose that we could help someone with a fault when we ourselves have a greater fault. We must remedy our own faults before criticizing them in others.

7:6 Verse 6 proves that Jesus did not intend to forbid every kind of judgment. He warned His disciples not to give holy things to dogs or to cast ... pearls before swine . Under the Mosaic Law dogs and swine were unclean animals and here the terms are used to depict wicked people. When we meet vicious people who treat divine truths with utter contempt and respond to our preaching of the claims of Christ with abuse and violence, we are not obligated to continue to share the gospel with them. To press the matter only brings increased condemnation to the offenders.



So to summarize;

What was Jesus calling for when He ordered His followers to “judge not? Did He want us to close our eyes to error and evil? Did He intend that managers forgo critical performance reviews of their employees? Or that news editors and art critics pull their punches? Or that juries refrain from judgment? Should we decline any assessment of others, since none of us is perfect?

No, those would all be mis applications of Jesus teaching. In the first place, He was not commanding blind acceptance, but grace toward others. Since all of us are sinners, we need to stop bothering with the failings of others and start attending to serious issues of our own. His words here extend His earlier expose of hypocrisy. Don't blame or put down others while excusing or exalting yourself, Jesus was saying.

Is there room, then, to assess others, especially when we know we are not perfect? Yes, but only in Jesus way: with empathy and fairness, and with a readiness to freely and fully forgive. When we are called upon to correct others, we should act like a good doctor whose purpose is to bring healing not like an enemy who attacks.
 
oscar said:
Jesus also said the world will hate you because you are mine.
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Is that why you hate us? Anyway I highly doubt any of the “clan†(as we are called) hate you. I would imagine flustered or irritated, but hate is not a feeling personally I have towards you.

You see God saved me from false teachers like Guibox, drew, cp mike, sput, tan ninety and john the baptist.
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If what you say is true, I pray that God leads us to His truth.

Some you false teachers right now are getting upset with me and saying to your self. See, this is what I am talking about.
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I will just leave you with some scripture to think up on:
1 Peter 3:15 Instead, you must worship Christ as Lord of your life. And if you are asked about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. 16 But you must do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak evil against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ. 17 Remember, it is better to suffer for doing good, if that is what God wants, than to suffer for doing wrong!

If we indeed are false teachers God will bring shame to us openly, you do not have to worry about putting us down.

While the Christians here are saying way to go Oscar, although they won't admit it.
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Don’t go by cheering of the Christians on the side lines oscar. Go by what Yeshua would tell you. Here’s a simple incident to keep in your heart and pray upon.

Luke 9:53-55And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.And when his disciples James and John saw [this], they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

Really may the Lord Jesus Rebuke you guys until you repent.
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I appreciate this. Leave the rebuking to the one who knows the hearts of men.

I have said this once and will reiterate it again. We can judge and discern, but let the one who sits on the throne pass the final judgment.
 
Oscar, I would like to know from what authority and support you have the right to say we are 'false teachers' and what we say is 'of the devil'? If it is the scriptures as it should be, then the truth or error of it will be born out.

Unfortunately, in your case oscar, it is not the bible that determines it but your own opinion.

Reformers such as Luther and Tyndale and thousands after have denied the immortality of the soul and that we are resurrected to eternal life and don't go immediately to heaven at death.

Hmmm....Where did they get this from?

Oscar would have you believe they just 'made it up' but the logical and biblical facts support it thoroughly. Now, despite this, oscar would still feel the need to call it 'teachings of the devil'.

I would be more careful, oscar what you call truth - truth and error - error.
Again, our teaching is from the scriptures. You merely have your opinion and your name calling and slander.

I see you falling in the same trap as the Pharisees did in how they viewed 'truth' and 'error'. When we think we have a monopoly on the truth, the truth actually shows us up.

Why don't you let this happen instead of labeling people?
 
I sent this thread to the dead threads for a reason. If this continues to stay 'personal' and not on a general topic. I will delete this thread and give a warning to whoever restarts this thread again.. I sent this there for a reason and what I see is nothing but personal postings about other members. You all been warned before this thread is deleted.. Call it censorship, call it favoritism or just call it whatever you will. But I will delete this topic and hand out warnings, I have no problem with that..

Stay on topic and off the person and/or personalities:

TOS Rules number 4 and 5
 
j,

Some of what you have offered is, in fact, truth. Some, however, is NOTHING other than opinion.

For one, Chirst NEVER shuned His obligation to offer the Word EVEN to those that threatened to KILL Him if He proceeded. Is this NOT what picking up 'our own crosses' represents?

Ours is NOT to value our fleshly lives above the commandments given. We ARE to love others AS we love ourselves. And this does NOT simply pertain to 'fellow church members'. This pertains to ALL others.

Based on the topic, how then are you or anyone else able to judge my heart or ANY other. Each of us is a sinner and this is acceptable information even to you I'm sure. Would that give me the right to judge YOU in each of your sins and accuse you of 'being from your father Satan'? This was the point that I attempted to make in what I offered in my previous post.

We are certainly able to judge the actions of our brothers and sisters, but to attempt to judge their hearts or relationship with the Father or Christ is PURE VANITY.

MEC
 
Reformers such as Luther and Tyndale and thousands after have denied the immortality of the soul and that we are resurrected to eternal life and don't go immediately to heaven at death.

Hmmm....Where did they get this from?
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I'd like to know that too. Where did you get that Tyndale denied the immortality of the soul? Do you have a source for that?
 
D46 said:
I'd like to know that too. Where did you get that Tyndale denied the immortality of the soul? Do you have a source for that?
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Reformers such as Luther and Tyndale and thousands after have denied the immortality of the soul and that we are resurrected to eternal life and don't go immediately to heaven at death.

Hmmm....Where did they get this from?
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This is exactly my point. These fellows love talking about this.Why I ask?
Who is it that made up this false doctrine? It is not God because Jesus Clearly says
''45 Then He will answer them, saying, Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

So if Jesus did not make up this false doctrine of annhialation, it must and can only be of the inspiration of the ''devil''.

How do we know this? Because the Holy Spirit will NOT teach against himself.

So I ask. Who is this Lie from? ''It is from the devil'' So who preaches this lie? Well this person or persons is the devils disciples.

Who teaches that ''45 Then He will answer them, saying, Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Well Jesus said it and so a disciple of Jesus would teach this. So if we teach what Jesus taught, this will make us his disciple.

Now if you guys are teaching contrary to the scriptures and you do, this would make you a false teacher. So Whos desciples are you? I will give you a hint. You are not a desciple of Jesus. (God ) For those false teachers who think Jesus is created and is not God.

The problem is that you false teachers are being driven by the spirit of the antichrist as is evendent in your beliefs and postings.
 
Atone - I agree with you that posts should not be personal. However, if someone takes it on themselves to say things such as:

The problem is that you false teachers are being driven by the spirit of the antichrist as is evendent in your beliefs and postings
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Do you see this as being personal? If so, should not the offender be taken to task rather than punish everyone by locking the thread & preventing another being started?
 
Mutz in answer to your question about this quote:

The problem is that you false teachers are being driven by the spirit of the antichrist as is evendent in your beliefs and postings
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To some here this quote is very accurate, and to others it's not. I have never sided with those who say such things nor do I side with those that defend such claims. I have given warnings out to those that do, and warned those who fought back with the same personal attacks. I see one side and yet I see the other side, as I'm sure every MOD and ADMIN does on this issue. I come out publicly to announce that any further personal attacks on the person or personalities will cause this thread to be shut down, but this time it will be deleted.

But the true question here is why was this topic started? Because someone was told they are following the father of lies and now they wanted to create a thread about it. Am I right? If they felt a personal bash on their spiritual walk or their beliefs, they could have contacted a MOD or better yet an ADMIN. BUT NO. They decide to create a thread about it. Therefore this is nothing but a mud slinging contest on why this and who that. And it was for that reason it was cast into the dead threads..
 
Actually, I thought the thread was asking the question, should one who accuses another of being a child of satan not take care of what comes from their mouth (and heart).

You see there is no-one who can claim absolute understanding in all things. I believe all knowledge and wisdom comes from God. So if God gives one man understanding on one thing and not another, do we blame the man for his lack of understanding or do we accept that God has to this point not revealed to them what is true.

Now I am not saying in this case what is and isn't true, but as soon as we accuse another of being a child of satan whether their theology is right or wrong we stand in the place of judgement which is reserved for Christ alone.

And I would caution any against such a thing.
 
Sitting next to a fire. You can smell the smoke from the fire pit. Trying to keep warm; it's late at night and the air is crisp. A man sits and tells 11 people that he is going to be rejected and killed. This caused shock and awe to all but one stands and rebukes the man for saying such a thing. The man telling the story arises from where he sits and grabs hold of the man, looks him into the eyes and rebuked him saying get behind me Satan for you savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.

If this man Jesus rebukes one of His disciples and tells Satan to get behind him, as though not speaking to this man Peter himself. How much more of it is a sin to say get behind me Satan, when what is not being taught from the Bible is being taught here? Should we not concern ourself with a false teacher if infact we know it's false? This is why I can see both sides. Example: If the Bible teaches that one can be lead by the devil and the cares of this world, then who's to say there is no such thing? You? Me? or God?


Scripture Reference:

Mar 8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
 
Atonement said:
But the true question here is why was this topic started? Because someone was told they are following the father of lies and now they wanted to create a thread about it. Am I right? If they felt a personal bash on their spiritual walk or their beliefs, they could have contacted a MOD or better yet an ADMIN. BUT NO. They decide to create a thread about it. Therefore this is nothing but a mud slinging contest on why this and who that. And it was for that reason it was cast into the dead threads..
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There was, of course, no violation of any rule in the creation of the original thread. If there were, the moderator who made the decision should provide chapter and verse. I ask yet again (the third time, I believe): Why was the original thread placed in the dead threads category - what rule did it violate?

The question of whether it is wise to call another poster a child of the devil is a legitimate question and Atonement appears to presume that it was done to initiate a mud-slinging contest. You all know who the mudlslingers are so they need not be named. I will leave it to those obviously more skilled than I in the art of mudslinging to engage in that behaviour if they wish.

As the careful reader can see, the OP of the original thread simply raised a concern about the possiblilty of sin - the sin of attributing the work of God to Satan, if the "you are of the devil" claim turns out to be false. Are we not allowed to discuss whether certain behaviours are or are not sinful? Which rules does that violate?

The original thread contained an entirely legitimate question and did not contain any "fightin' words". Check it out for yourself.

The reason why the thread was locked remains a mystery unless a good explanation is forthcoming.
 
mutzrein said:
Actually, I thought the thread was asking the question, should one who accuses another of being a child of satan not take care of what comes from their mouth (and heart).
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You are right, of course - read the thread and you will see

mutzrein said:
Now I am not saying in this case what is and isn't true, but as soon as we accuse another of being a child of satan whether their theology is right or wrong we stand in the place of judgement which is reserved for Christ alone.

And I would caution any against such a thing.
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Could not have worded this better myself. The original thread was created to address this very topic - again read the thread and you will see.
 
Drew said:
Could not have worded this better myself. The original thread was created to address this very topic - again read the thread and you will see.
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Drew, occasionally I feel the need to offer encouragement and support to yourself and some other regulars of the forum. I want you to know that I and a number of others on this board - and that would include visitors who don't actively participate - would undoubtedly have nothing but respect for you and the competent manner in which you conduct yourself, often in the face of silly jibes and the inane (though frustrating) rantings of a few adversaries. They (the rantings and the adversaries) are what they are and the sensible ones among us know this.

Don't respond to this post. Just know in your heart that it's true. That's all I wanted to say.
 
Drew Wrote:

Atonement appears to presume that it was done to initiate a mud-slinging contest.
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My responce

And I suspect that you are not spirit-filled, so you have nothing to worry about.
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You see God saved me from false teachers like Guibox, drew, cp mike, sput, tan ninety and john the baptist.
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Is that why you hate us? Anyway I highly doubt any of the “clan†(as we are called) hate you.
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I could probably quote more, if time allowed. But being a poster and a MOD on this site for some years now, you kinda get a drift on how threads like this are going to turn out. Please excuse me for knowing better. I'll let this thread continue untill it becomes personal again, then it will be deleted as stated before.
 
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