You have to be born.....AGAIN?

[NIGHTMARE]

Any scripture to prove than man is born without a spirit?

Of course not,,,a man is a spiritual man long before they are a flesh man,,,,I do not share that "born again" doctrine belief,,,it is a bad translation,,,which somethimes causes people to miss the lesson Christ was giving.....

 

[mutzrein]

Any scripture to prove than man is born without a spirit?

Of course not,,,a man is a spiritual man long before they are a flesh man,,,,I do not share that "born again" doctrine belief,,,it is a bad translation,,,which somethimes causes people to miss the lesson Christ was giving.....

What? What translation are you using?

Care to share what Jesus' lesson was? Or is it all foolishness anyway?

 

[mutzrein]

This is an interesting conversation. I'm eagerly watching the discussion in here. Most of what Heneni has said so far I agree with. I'm interested to see the continued discourse on this topic. The doctrine of election has never been my strong point in doctrine.

Hey Cyber - where do you stand on election?

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Any scripture to prove than man is born without a spirit?

Of course not,,,a man is a spiritual man long before they are a flesh man,,,,I do not share that "born again" doctrine belief,,,it is a bad translation,,,which somethimes causes people to miss the lesson Christ was giving.....

What? What translation are you using?

Care to share what Jesus' lesson was? Or is it all foolishness anyway?

John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

The word "Again" is # 509, the word is "Anothen", "from above".

Christ said you must be born from above......It will be very hard to understand the lesson without knowing this......Christ gave 2 instructions for getting into the kingdom....

The 1st is you must be born from above or (born of water),,,,,you must be put in the womb of woman a born into the world.....im sure you already know when a woman is about to give birth her water break,,,this is being born from above or born of water....

Then after you are born you must decide who you are going to serve,,,if you chose Christ,,,this is being born of spirit......2 things born of water (woman) then born of spirit (Christ)

The reason Christ said this is because some people chose not to be born of woman but come to earth and start messing around,,,these people have lost there salvation,,,,you can read about them in Genesis 6 and Jude......

 

[mutzrein]

Of course not,,,a man is a spiritual man long before they are a flesh man,,,,I do not share that "born again" doctrine belief,,,it is a bad translation,,,which somethimes causes people to miss the lesson Christ was giving.....

What? What translation are you using?

Care to share what Jesus' lesson was? Or is it all foolishness anyway?

John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

The word "Again" is # 509, the word is "Anothen", "from above".

Christ said you must be born from above......It will be very hard to understand the lesson without knowing this......Christ gave 2 instructions for getting into the kingdom....

The 1st is you must be born from above or (born of water),,,,,you must be put in the womb of woman a born into the world.....im sure you already know when a woman is about to give birth her water break,,,this is being born from above or born of water....

Then after you are born you must decide who you are going to serve,,,if you chose Christ,,,this is being born of spirit......2 things born of water (woman) then born of spirit (Christ)

The reason Christ said this is because some people chose not to be born of woman but come to earth and start messing around,,,these people have lost there salvation,,,,you can read about them in Genesis 6 and Jude......

O really! Pray tell me when the last time was a person CHOSE NOT to be born of woman.

Birth has NEVER been a choice - neither natural (of water) or spiritual (of God).

BTW I still want to know what translation you are using.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Im not using a special translation,,,you can go to the strongs concordance and look up the word "again" it comes from the Hebrew word "above" The word "Again" is # 509, the word is "Anothen", "from above".

Ok the fallen angels,,,instead of being born left there habitat and started impregnating the daughters of Adam......The fallen angels chose to come to earth without being born of woman,,,this is all written have you not read it????????

Here Jude talks about them


4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

6And the angels which kept not their first estate,(which is there first home) but left their own habitation, (a angels habitation is heaven)he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


This is what they did

1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

sorry bro I didnt have more time to go deeper,, Im about to leave but I will follow up,,if not 2night then 2morrow.....

In short these angels knew that Christ was going to be born through the Adamic bloodline so they tryed to pollute it by coming to earth and well sexually seducing the daughters of Adam which made Giants but read it for yourself....hit u later.........

 

[justvisiting]

First you are predestined according to Peter... through the foreknowledge of God. Second, the Son is not the Father... He is the Son. Third, although there is a spiritual rebirth that takes place from accepting Christ, the final fruits only occur when our body is changed and made like His, which is no longer flesh and blood, but a spiritual body.
I would suggest attending a good evangelical church that is grounded in the tenets of the faith.

 

[justvisiting]

This does pertain to being born again. Hope this isn't too long, but it explains itself.
There is a spirit in every man. It's what makes us different from the animals. They have body and soul. We have body,soul (the seat of the emotions), and spirit. The spirit of man in the unsaved is basically dormant and unGodrecognizing. It is quickened or made alive by the joining of the Holy Spirit with our spirit. We are then called sons of God. (spiritual beings housed in flesh), just as Christ was when he was on earth. Job 32:8 But there is A SPIRIT IN MAN: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.
I mentioned this in this post because someone brought it up.
I Cor. 15
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou SOWEST is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou SOWEST, thou SOWEST not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

 

[mutzrein]

First you are predestined according to Peter... through the foreknowledge of God. Second, the Son is not the Father... He is the Son. Third, although there is a spiritual rebirth that takes place from accepting Christ, the final fruits only occur when our body is changed and made like His, which is no longer flesh and blood, but a spiritual body.
I would suggest attending a good evangelical church that is grounded in the tenets of the faith.

Hiya - is this a response for my attention - or someone else?

Blessings

 

[Free]

Im not using a special translation,,,you can go to the strongs concordance and look up the word "again" it comes from the Hebrew word "above" The word "Again" is # 509, the word is "Anothen", "from above".

Not this again--"born again" is the same as "born from above".

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Im not using a special translation,,,you can go to the strongs concordance and look up the word "again" it comes from the Hebrew word "above" The word "Again" is # 509, the word is "Anothen", "from above".

Not this again--"born again" is the same as "born from above".

Ok let me make this simple for you,,,because you seem to be having trouble reading and understand words.......So lets open a dictionary so you can learn somehting....

Here is what "Above" means 1 a : in the sky : overhead <the clouds above> b : in or to heaven

Here is what "again" means 1 a : 2 : another time : once more :

So when you say these two words mean the same thing you simple show your ignorance........

If you chose not to use the Hebrew to help with understanding and knowledge then thats fine,,,but dont :nag :nag :nag me for doing it........

 

[NIGHTMARE]

First you are predestined according to Peter... through the foreknowledge of God. Second, the Son is not the Father... He is the Son. Third, although there is a spiritual rebirth that takes place from accepting Christ, the final fruits only occur when our body is changed and made like His, which is no longer flesh and blood, but a spiritual body.
I would suggest attending a good evangelical church that is grounded in the tenets of the faith.

What is so good about a evangelical church??????????

 

[stovebolts]

Im not using a special translation,,,you can go to the strongs concordance and look up the word "again" it comes from the Hebrew word "above" The word "Again" is # 509, the word is "Anothen", "from above".

Nightmare:
Just a slight correction. ἄνÉθεν is greek, not Hebrew...
Also, as a student, I've found it best to look outside of strongs for a fuller explanation on how a language is used...


Middle Liddell
ἄνÉθεν ἄνÉ
I. adv. of place from above, from on high, Hdt., Trag., etc.; ὕδαÄο ἄνÉθεν γενομένοÃ…, i. e. rain, Thuc.: from the upper country, from inland, id=Thuc.
2. = ἄνÉ, above, on high, Trag.; οἱ ἄν. the living, opp. to οἱ κάÃâ‰, Aesch.:â€â€c. gen., Hdt.
II. of Time, from the beginning, Plat., Dem.: by descent, Theocr.; Äὰ ἄν. first principles, Plat.
2. over again, anew, NTest.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Im not using a special translation,,,you can go to the strongs concordance and look up the word "again" it comes from the Hebrew word "above" The word "Again" is # 509, the word is "Anothen", "from above".

Nightmare:
Just a slight correction. ἄνÉθεν is greek, not Hebrew...
Also, as a student, I've found it best to look outside of strongs for a fuller explanation on how a language is used...


Middle Liddell
ἄνÉθεν ἄνÉ
I. adv. of place from above, from on high, Hdt., Trag., etc.; ὕδαÄο ἄνÉθεν γενομένοÃ…, i. e. rain, Thuc.: from the upper country, from inland, id=Thuc.
2. = ἄνÉ, above, on high, Trag.; οἱ ἄν. the living, opp. to οἱ κάÄÉ, Aesch.:â€â€c. gen., Hdt.
II. of Time, from the beginning, Plat., Dem.: by descent, Theocr.; Äὰ ἄν. first principles, Plat.
2. over again, anew, NTest.

yes you are correct........my bad..........I often use the strongs because it is numbered to the KJ bible and I do alot of reading out of the KJ......But yes I agree knowledge needs to be searched out in more place then one.....wondering where you been.....

 

[stovebolts]

Im not using a special translation,,,you can go to the strongs concordance and look up the word "again" it comes from the Hebrew word "above" The word "Again" is # 509, the word is "Anothen", "from above".

Not this again--"born again" is the same as "born from above".

Ok let me make this simple for you,,,because you seem to be having trouble reading and understand words.......So lets open a dictionary so you can learn somehting....

Here is what "Above" means 1 a : in the sky : overhead <the clouds above> b : in or to heaven

Here is what "again" means 1 a : 2 : another time : once more :

So when you say these two words mean the same thing you simple show your ignorance........

If you chose not to use the Hebrew to help with understanding and knowledge then thats fine,,,but dont :nag :nag :nag me for doing it........

I realize that Free can answer this, but here's my

Here is what "again" means 1 a : 2 : another time : once more :

We are born, and born again. God wants us to be fully integrated beings. Body, mind and soul... It seems to me that one must be born of the flesh to be born from above, thus, within the context of the scripture where ἄνÉθεν is being used, to be born from above, is to be born again since it is obvious that humans are reading that verse ;)

btw
John 3:16
Middle Liddell
μονογενή 1 γίγνομαι
only-begotten, single, Hes., Hdt., etc.; μ. αἷμα one and the same blood, Eur.

1 mono-genh/s, epic and ionic μοÃ…νο-γενήÂ, έÂ

Jesus was born in the flesh...

LSJ
A. the only member of a kin or kind: hence, generally, only, single, “Àαῖ†Hes.Op.376, Hdt.7.221, cf. Ev.Jo.1.14, Ant.Lib.32.1; of Hecate, Hes. Th.426.
2. unique, of Äὸ ὄν, Parm. 8.4; “εἷ ὅδε μ. οá½ÂÃÂανὸ γεγονΆPl.Ti.31b, cf. Procl.Inst.22; “θεὸ ὠμ.†Sammelb.4324.15.
3. μ. αἷμÃnd the same blood, dub. l. in E. Hel.1685.
4. Gramm., having one form for all genders, A.D.Adv. 145.18.
5. name of the foot___^, Heph.3.3.
II. Adv. -νῶÂ, ÆέÃÂεÄαι μ. á¼Âν ἑνὶ ÄÃŒÀῳ grows only in one place, Peripl.M.Rubr.56, cf. 11.
2. in a unique manner, Aët. 15.13,14.

 

[stovebolts]

That's why I said "Slight correction"..

.....wondering where you been.....

Life is busy...

 

[Heneni]

:D Yes the doctrine of election is controversial. It is clear from the OT that god has always had the freedom to elect a people for himself unconditionally. I think that sometimes people find it hard to square an all loving god, who's love is unconditional, with god electing some and not others. But god's love is unconditional, and it also applies to the way he elects a people for himself. Its not to say that god's love is unconditional that he is therefore boxed in and cannot elect a people on whome he bestowes his special favour. It is clear that god has been unconditionally electing a people for himself since the time of the OT.

Whenever the bible talks about election, you will find phrases like, '' I knew you'', ''predestined'', ''elected'', ''chose'', ''called out of'', ''separated''

In the case of Abraham, who was initially an idolater.

''You fathers lived of old beyond the Euphrates, Terah, the father of Abraham and of Nahor, and they served other gods. Then I took your father Abraham from beyond the river and led him through all the land of Canaan, and made his offspring many''

This ''taking'' of Abraham is election.

When god says he knows someone it also means he has elected them. God said:

'' Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do?'' and he answers himself by saying ''No, for I have known him''

That does not mean that god is ignorant of everybody else on the planet it means that god has placed his special attention on Abraham.

Whoever god chooses or elects god gives birth to. He gave birth to the Israeli nation:

''Thus says the Lord, he who created you, O Jacob he who FORMED you, O Israel''

In Isaiah 43 he says ''I am the lord, your holy one, the creator of Israel''

Moses calls them a chosen people.

Deut 14:1

''You are a people holy (meaning set apart) and the Lord has chosen you to be a people for his own possession out of all the peoples on the face of the earth''

And god confirms Israel as his special nation by saying this to pharaoh

''Israel is my firstborn son, and I say to you, let my son go that he may serve me''

Why did god do this? Why did he elect/choose Israel as his special nation?

Deut 4:37
''Because he loved your fathers (Abraham) and chose their descendants after them''

The whole universe belongs to god, so god is not hedged in by a group of people. God did not elect Israel to demonstrate to pharaoh that he is another god in the universe and that the Israelites are his people and he has only rights to them. He has rights to everything, yet he delighted in loving Abraham and in loving Abraham he delighted to choose/elect/birth a nation that would make a name for himself on earth in and amongst the Egyptians and the rest of the world.

But just to show that god is not hedged in, boxed in by choosing Israel as a nation, he goes further and elects out of Israel a group of people.

Isaac and Ishmael were both sons of Abraham, but god elected Isaac, not Ishmael to make a name for himself. Both Esau and Jacob were born from Isaac’s seed, and yet god only chooses Jacob. And Jacob was the least likely candidate for election. His name means deceiver. He didn’t get chosen because he was in any way deserving of it, god chose him because he delights in his freedom to elect.

God is absolutely sovereign when it comes to who he elects, and he shows this by unconditional election. None of the people god chose had any merit to be chosen, it was completely unconditional.

Is there any reason to assume that god still does not elect?

 

[Free]

Im not using a special translation,,,you can go to the strongs concordance and look up the word "again" it comes from the Hebrew word "above" The word "Again" is # 509, the word is "Anothen", "from above".

Not this again--"born again" is the same as "born from above".

Ok let me make this simple for you,,,because you seem to be having trouble reading and understand words.......So lets open a dictionary so you can learn somehting....

Here is what "Above" means 1 a : in the sky : overhead <the clouds above> b : in or to heaven

Here is what "again" means 1 a : 2 : another time : once more :

So when you say these two words mean the same thing you simple show your ignorance........

If you chose not to use the Hebrew to help with understanding and knowledge then thats fine,,,but dont :nag :nag :nag me for doing it........

Lose the attitude. :bigfrown

Firstly, it is not written in Hebrew, it is Greek. Secondly, the phrase "born from above" means to be "born again". Look at the context:

John 3:3-7, "3 Jesus answered him, Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again [anothen] he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus said to him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time [deuteros] into his mother's womb and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born again [anothen]."

Do you notice how Nicodemus answers to Jesus?

 

[NIGHTMARE]

I dont have a attitude with you......Look Christ said you must be born from above,,,,,you dont have to be Solomon to make the connection with the angels who chose not to born from above......


Christ is telling us to have salvation and enter the kingdom you must be born from above,,,the angels that werent born from above lost there salvation and are damned........If you cant follow that then I dont know what to tell ya.....

Yes I caught Nicodemus answer.......and he was to say the least......

 

[Boanerges]

These are just my thoughts on the subjects being discussed here.
Being born again. Never has there been such an important topic that has had such a wide variety of understandings. The following is my take on this and I respect rights of others to disagree.
What does it mean to be born again?

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

God is tripartite- Father, Son and Holy Spirit. God made man in His own image - tripartite - spirit, soul and body.

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

The day Adam ate the forbidden fruit his body did not die nor did his soul. Adam experienced a spiritual death that separated him from God and his children are born with that same condition




God would make a way for His fellowship with man to be restored and this way was prophesied by Ezekiel :

Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Eze 11:20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


There had to be a cleansing of sin and a spiritual rebirth for man and God to once again meet and take those long walks in the garden.
Jesus Himself tells us that we cannot see, perceive or have any part in the Kingdom of God without this spiritual rebirth:

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Unless a man be born of water (the natural birthing process of the body (breaking of the water bag) and the Spirit (the impartation of new spiritual life) He cannot enter into God's Kingdom. What is born of the flesh [(body), mans efforts] cannot please God nor stand in His presence.

We are given a new spiritual man or inner man made (anew) in God's image:
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

This salvation experience or "born again" experience places new life in the believers by spiritual regeneration.
The soul (mind, will, intellect, emotions) must come in agreement with the spiritual revelation given by the Holy Spirit in the Word of God. As this soul is made new (in it's very life force) and every way of thinking it is become renewed and thinks, acts and believes the Word of God in every circumstance- this is the saving of the soul.


Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

As the spirit receives revelation, the mind is renewed and the body follows the thoughts of the renewed mind- this is a man who walks pleasing to God in every area of his life. He is now complete and mature following God's plan and purpose for his life and the power of the Living God flows freely in and through him.

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.




Predestination;
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
The God who knows all knows every heart. He knows all our choices and knows the beginning from the end. His Son died for all but all will not come though He desires them to. He sees a heart that will have Him and He molds every circumstance to bring that person to the place of surrender to Himself. Predestination is according to foreknowledge.

Many blessings in His most wonderful Name,
your brother Larry.