Your Choice: Circumcision or Concision

[Jethro Bodine]

Maybe By Grace will come back and give us his take on how James 2:24 NASB doesn't contradict Romans 3:28 NASB(?)

I think the way the cults interpret the James passage is what creates a contradiction between the two.

 

[By Grace]

Lol, you misunderstand.

I was hoping you'd explain why the cults are wrong in thinking that James 2:24 NASB is somehow contradictory to Paul's Romans 3:28 NASB. Apparently, you thought I am in agreement with their interpretation of James 2:24 NASB that creates that contradiction, but I am not. They do indeed misunderstand what James was saying when he said a man is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. I was asking you to explain the mistake they are making. The mistake I in no way make myself.

Thank you.

I needed to "push my point" in order to get a clear understanding of what you were saying. Indeed, I misunderstood what you were attempting to do. So let that be a lesson to all of us, that due to the anonymous nature of boards such as this one, and because we cannot see the facial expressions or hear the tones of voice of another, which give us clues to meaning we are left with words on our monitors, and sometimes the emoticons are insufficient to express emotions and inflections.

So, yeah, I am sorry that I misunderstood you, also. We begin afresh

 

[By Grace]

See, ByGrace? The very subtle counterfeit, is way more dangerous than an "In your face" cult.

Please explain what you mean by using that term, and for further clarification, I request that you name those cults of which you post.

Meanwhile
.

Titus 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. ​

 

[By Grace]

Maybe By Grace will come back and give us his take on how James 2:24 NASB doesn't contradict Romans 3:28 NASB(?)

I think the way the cults interpret the James passage is what creates a contradiction between the two.

They take the verse and attempt to make it stand on its own without any context to support it. That is why one of my apologetic axioms is "Any verse ripped from its context is a pretext 100% of the time". Please look at this below:

James2: 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
(Originally from Genesis 15: 6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness)
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

If I am not mistaken, this verse from Genesis 15 is repeated at least three times in the NT by Paul. Therefore, it MUST be important, right? And since that is the case, we have no other choice in our understanding of Scripture to use our systematic theology in a manner that is both true to the words and intentions of the verse as originally written, AND at the same time do not make Paul contradict James. The reason for that is if we make the author of 13 New Testament Epistles the Apostle Paul write contradictory things, we are therefore poking non-existent holes in the entirety of Scripture.

In Hebrews 11 is the "Hall of Faith" of the OT saints and Rahab is listed there. So it is important to look at that to see two important facets about her personality and of her deeds. Therefore I ask anyone to to tell me what is most important for the writer of Hebrews about her?

Hebrews 11: 31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.​

(I made it easy because I color coded it)

As a result, Hebrews makes the faith of Rahab the most prominent thing her act, and not her hiding of the spies in (Joshua 2) which is a deed, by definition (I am of the opinion that she retired from or quit prostitution when she believed, and that appellation is given as a tribute to the transforming grace of God in her life so that all would remember from where she came. But opining that is an argument from silence. ) As a result, it is proper to say that the work that she did was the FRUIT of her faith, but not its FOUNDATION. It demonstrated to all that she was a redeemed Daughter of Zion.

All of this is to demonstrate that the cults uniformly ignore the facts about Rahab.

26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.​

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. (2001). (Jas 2:26). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

NEVER in Scripture does it say "Works save you", but it is equally clear that works demonstrate a pre-existing faith, and are the fruits of faith.

Does that answer satisfy you?