You're not blessed because you don't tithe.

[Corn Pop]

By all means, put some money in the collection plate, if you like to see the lights stay on and the water running. But fulfill your spiritual "tithe" by following Jethro's example. There are always opportunities that present themselves -- if not, pray that they do. God has always been faithful, ALWAYS, to lead someone my way who needs some help. You can really blow their minds sometimes when you know in faith that God is sending them, you see them coming, and you bless them before they ask and let them know God has His eye on them and loves them.

That should fall under donations, not tithes. Some churches are tithe and say its a God commandment to give 10%, and other churches are donation, freely give what you want.

And lets be honest, i dont think there is a single church out there that does not just pay the bills, some may not get enough donations and struggle, while others may recieve multitudes more and extend, but not only do they extend, they start to become filthy, they start giving High Priest Jesus money to themselves, paying salarys, buying luxury items for the church, and so on.

 

[Blake]

I just don't see the use in knowing how to give correctly, if we aren't willing to give at all. Let's not get hung up on the semantics of it all, but rather be cheerful givers.

 

[Corn Pop]

Remember when Moses struggled as a leader, and was overwhelmed having to deal with his flock. What did he do?. Did he start charging tithe and paying himself for having to work for God?. He worked for free.

Moses,Jesus,Paul,John and so on whoever you find in scripture all ministered for free.

Thats right, they all found more people to donate there FREE time, that lightened the work load. He didnt pay himself a million bucks to stand there and talk, and build himself a stadium to fit 50000.

 

[Blake]

But I absolutely haven't been talking about stadiums and millions of bucks. I'm talking about giving your own money away to help someone else. That is working for free.

 

[Corn Pop]

But I absolutely haven't been talking about stadiums and millions of bucks. I'm talking about giving your own money away to help someone else. That is working for free.

Personally giving to someone else who needs the help is good. At least you know its going to good use and not secretly in a wolfs pocket for personal gain.

I went to a church once and gave nothing because i knew its not going to Gods will. The venue was flash, it had massive 1000 inch TV screens and i seen the pastor pre driving a brand new audi. I knew for a fact they did not need my money nor was profit going to charity or helping people in need. It was going to a higher salary. Im not stupid, i know how clubs and organisations work. Just look at Government, the nations broke but they give themselves pay raises, thats how organisations and so called "charitys" work, just like corps and business who write everything off.

 

[YosefHayim]

And the priest opened it up and said, "you cheap..."

Yeah I know. I guess he wasn't satisfied with my real tithe!

 

[Corn Pop]

Yeah I know. I guess he wasn't satisfied with my real tithe!

Say siver or gold i do not have, but what i have i say to you freely, in the name of Jesus, Wake up.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

There is really no reason to get upset over what other people do with their money.
Our relationship with Jesus is personal and so all we do is personal between Him and us.
If we have it in our hearts to share our money with those in need, God will make it happen.

As for church organizations, if you go to one they need to be supported.
But not at the expense of by passing a poor person because you did not put money aside for the poor.
That's your choice, one way or the other.

 

[Corn Pop]

There is really no reason to get upset over what other people do with their money.
Our relationship with Jesus is personal and so all we do is personal between Him and us.
If we have it in our hearts to share our money with those in need, God will make it happen.

As for church organizations, if you go to one they need to be supported.
But not at the expense of by passing a poor person because you did not put money aside for the poor.
That's your choice, one way or the other.

Its called no faith. Why do churches or organisations need to be supported?. Do they not trust God can build a house?. Little faith. They have put there faith in money and not God. They like the man who was too afraid to sell everything and trust God would provide. They trust money will keep the doors open and not God. Little faith.

 

[WIP]

Its called no faith. Why do churches or organisations need to be supported?. Do they not trust God can build a house?. Little faith. They have put there faith in money and not God. They like the man who was too afraid to sell everything and trust God would provide. They trust money will keep the doors open and not God. Little faith.

They do trust God. That's why it isn't a requirement to pay admission to attend a service, keep the lights on, provide indoor plumbing, heat in the winter, AC in the summer, maintain the building and grounds, and manage the supported missions. The financial support required to do these things doesn't just mysteriously appear on the doorstep. Members and others in attendance provide this support when they contribute to the offering plate during services. There's no required minimum or maximum.

How do you suppose the early church managed? Let's see what Scripture tells us.

Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need. So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved. Acts 2:44-47 NKJV

Those of us that resist participating should consider what they did. They sold everything they had and gave it to the Church to distribute as it saw fit. Here we are arguing about giving a small portion of what we have.

 

[Edward]

Giving 10% of your income to the local church has no scriptural backing.

True that Brother. In the OT times it was ours and we tithed 10%. For us new covenant NT believers...it's all the Lords. That is scriptural.

Remember though, God doesn't change. So if you tithe nowadays, God will still honor His words and pour out blessings.

 

[Sparkey]

The above statement sounds like you are: I'm selfish, but you also hate the fact that you hate to tithe:

You quoted my entire post and then said, "The above statement..."

Sorry, but I don't understand your comment. Better punctuation might help? Unsure. Maybe you could explain more about what my statement(s) sound like to you? What do I hate? I hate the fact that I hate to tithe? I'm guessing that you didn't quite understand me. That's okay. It happens.

It's also possible that you just used my post as a springboard toward your thought? That's fine too. But I don't know how to relate to your comment. Do you know what you meant? I don't. Not really.

It seems that I should have worded my initial post better. Mostly I was talking to the OP who knows me fairly well and has been previously initiated into my, ahhhh, rather unique and somewhat baroque style of writing oftentimes used to sometimes produce tension, exuberance, and dramatic grandeur of expression.

 

[Sparkey]

God will still honor His words and pour out blessings.

-AND- :amen

We all have a very personal deal with God. He writes on our hearts as is His due. We want Him to. Because we know that He is good and we understand that he does not need us to tell Him our hearts. Yet He listens. Still, He knows us even better than we do. So if I wanted earthly reward, or if I merely thought that's what I wanted, and if you, on the other hand, wanted to continue to sacrifice here on earth and postpone things (rewards) a bit so that you too could obtain greater reward? Meaning, if we really trusted Him and what He says? (And I know that you do)

Then we know that Blessings Will Come. We have His Word on that fact. Blessings will come, both now, and also more importantly, in the eternal. And that's good. That's even better, as I'm sure you will agree, because it's eternal reward that way and it lasts forever and won't perish like mere earthly reward.

Hmmmm... when we are talking about blessing? There is no "slice of the pie" that needs to be portioned out, some to ye and some to me. All of His children are His. We are all given reward according to our works. So then? If God loves a cheerful giver? And if you just happen to be a little on the poor side, like me? The math of the Widow's Might (Mite) might help. Just a bit, I'll fetch. My Business math calculus teacher used the Widow's Mite as an apt example for compounding interest.

View attachment 7407

​

That would make the initial investment (Principle) set at approximately ¼ ¢.

And in his teaching he said, "Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes and like greetings in the marketplaces and have the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at feasts, who devour widows' houses and for a pretense make long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation."
[Mar 12:38-40 ESV]​

Notice first how they LIKE to walk around long robes. Why? People who like to wear long robes are not fit for manual labor. So by wearing long flowing robes, the Scribes of Jesus time instantly tell any who care to look that they are above all that. Manual labor is beneath them. What? Should I sully my robe just because you want me to? I think not.

They also get preferred seating at public arrangements like in the synagogues, and the celebrations of the Jewish Feasts. We've already heard what James thinks about that. He doesn't like it and says categorically that God is no respecter of persons. See Acts 10:34 and Romans 2:11 as well as James 2:1-13, but you have no need that I tell you this. Then we are taught (b/c 'in His teaching it is said:') that they devour widow's houses and that is just part off what earns the greater condemnation.
see http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Mark 12.38-44 for more

But then, as the instruction continues, we hear about the Widow's Mite. Jesus isn't teaching compounding interest formulas. But he does say that he will come with heavenly reward for those faithful.

... And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. And he called [unto him] his disciples, and saith unto them, "Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: For all [they] did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, [even] all her living."
[Mar 12:41-44 KJV]​

So now, if we are only talking about blessing being poured out like the Chase Manhandling Bank-robbers then the interest of the Widow's Mite would be, given 4% interest, compounded quarterly, over a period of 2000 years? Well, that's where the calculator comes in.

View attachment 7407 ​

P=0.0025 (two times 1/8th of a cent)
r= 0.04 (4% interest rate)
n=4 (number of months for Quarterly compounding)
t=2,000 (tine in years)

Amount = P (1+(r/n)^(4x2000)
Amount = 0.0025 (1 + (0.04 / 4) ^ (8000)

My batteries on my calculator are missing (I took them out after my last math class - so they would not leak) and online calculators say, "Enter realistic numbers," when I try to do the math there. So I don't know the answer. Probably somebody here does or can express it well... but my point is that Jesus will bless and pour out more than what we might expect if we were to trust David Chase and his ilk.

Jeremiah 29:11

Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile an account of the things accomplished among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word,…
Luke 1:1

​

But before we leave this, I also notice that Jesus condemned because they 'devour' houses. What's up with that? When I search Google it is suggested that oftentimes Scribes also acts as lawyers and offer their 'service' to help settle disputes.

Quoting BibleTruthOnline, "So many people had
them invovled in legal matters, and managing their money! [sic]

Scribes are a great occupation! You are an authority on God and
his words and can clarify them unlike God can, you are a lawyer
and can influence decision making, and you are a personal banker
in the trusted position of handling money of other people.

WOW! Who would have thought these scribes are so nice and helpful?
​

 

[turnorburn]

i like the way its put here..

II Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.

When your obeying his word things just seem to fall into place..

I Samuel 22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

tob

 

[Corn Pop]

They do trust God. That's why it isn't a requirement to pay admission to attend a service, keep the lights on, provide indoor plumbing, heat in the winter, AC in the summer, maintain the building and grounds, and manage the supported missions. The financial support required to do these things doesn't just mysteriously appear on the doorstep. Members and others in attendance provide this support when they contribute to the offering plate during services. There's no required minimum or maximum.

How do you suppose the early church managed? Let's see what Scripture tells us.

Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need. So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved. Acts 2:44-47 NKJV

Those of us that resist participating should consider what they did. They sold everything they had and gave it to the Church to distribute as it saw fit. Here we are arguing about giving a small portion of what we have.

My dear friend WIP. In that scripture you quoted the sold everything and divided among all who needed what and went house to house breaking bread and the numbers were added. Another scripture says all gave to Peter, and he gave to all who needed what for there journey.

I dont know a church that its members have services at each others houses, or divides the tithe back to all its members who maybe struggling, one member is rich and another poor the church should look after its members. Divide so everyone can pay bills. Not people giving and cant eat for a week while the church is loaded. It doesnt give back and divide equally.

You can have a 50000 member chuch and people just have service at each others houses. You dont have to pack them all in a single building and cry broke. The Church is spiritual. You see, i could go your place and fellowship and offer a gift, thrn go eugenes, then rebas and so on. Just an example.

 

[JohnDB]

I work for a living. A construction electrician usually gets laid off/fired a lot.

So I usually save half of every paycheck.
But my wife and I give well over 20% of our income on a regular basis. Tithing/tenth is merely training wheels of giving.
Now sure your church you attend should get some of your returns to God but most churches here are luxurious by standards around the world. But I have a heart for missions.

I gave ALL of me to God. That's all I've been, all I am and all I'm going to be. That means He can have all the money we make...and He is responsible for taking care of us. I have more than enough. I am God's slave and go when and where I'm told. I am owned...property of God. If I want control back and all the consequences thereof (shudder) its possible. Just not recommended.

This isn't a "give to get" scheme for our needs. It is with a freedom which comes from faith that we do this.

 

[Corn Pop]

I work for a living. A construction electrician usually gets laid off/fired a lot.

So I usually save half of every paycheck.
But my wife and I give well over 20% of our income on a regular basis. Tithing/tenth is merely training wheels of giving.
Now sure your church you attend should get some of your returns to God but most churches here are luxurious by standards around the world. But I have a heart for missions.

I gave ALL of me to God. That's all I've been, all I am and all I'm going to be. That means He can have all the money we make...and He is responsible for taking care of us. I have more than enough. I am God's slave and go when and where I'm told. I am owned...property of God. If I want control back and all the consequences thereof (shudder) its possible. Just not recommended.

This isn't a "give to get" scheme for our needs. It is with a freedom which comes from faith that we do this.

It dont worry me who gives what and how much, its not my business, you could give 100%. I just have compassion some people are blind and giving to the wrong person who is really a thief.wrong

 

[JohnDB]

Giving because you have a generous heart is never wrong. But giving a drunk a drink is.
We don't buy murderers, who have not changed, a means of killing more effectively.

Jesus beat the money changers twice to try to save them...not to get revenge. Big difference though many won't see it that way.

Some are just going to be greedy. I can't stop them. I've not been charged with trying either. I've got my own issues to worry with surrounding my small family without additional worries about another's sins.

But if I see a need I help....without finger wagging or brow beating....as a good steward of someone else money should.

 

[Edward]

-AND- :amen

We all have a very personal deal with God. He writes on our hearts as is His due. We want Him to. Because we know that He is good and we understand that he does not need us to tell Him our hearts. Yet He listens. Still, He knows us even better than we do. So if I wanted earthly reward, or if I merely thought that's what I wanted, and if you, on the other hand, wanted to continue to sacrifice here on earth and postpone things (rewards) a bit so that you too could obtain greater reward? Meaning, if we really trusted Him and what He says? (And I know that you do)

Then we know that Blessings Will Come. We have His Word on that fact. Blessings will come, both now, and also more importantly, in the eternal. And that's good. That's even better, as I'm sure you will agree, because it's eternal reward that way and it lasts forever and won't perish like mere earthly reward.

Hmmmm... when we are talking about blessing? There is no "slice of the pie" that needs to be portioned out, some to ye and some to me. All of His children are His. We are all given reward according to our works. So then? If God loves a cheerful giver? And if you just happen to be a little on the poor side, like me? The math of the Widow's Might (Mite) might help. Just a bit, I'll fetch. My Business math calculus teacher used the Widow's Mite as an apt example for compounding interest.

View attachment 7407

​

That would make the initial investment (Principle) set at approximately ¼ ¢.

And in his teaching he said, "Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes and like greetings in the marketplaces and have the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at feasts, who devour widows' houses and for a pretense make long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation."
[Mar 12:38-40 ESV]​

Notice first how they LIKE to walk around long robes. Why? People who like to wear long robes are not fit for manual labor. So by wearing long flowing robes, the Scribes of Jesus time instantly tell any who care to look that they are above all that. Manual labor is beneath them. What? Should I sully my robe just because you want me to? I think not.

They also get preferred seating at public arrangements like in the synagogues, and the celebrations of the Jewish Feasts. We've already heard what James thinks about that. He doesn't like it and says categorically that God is no respecter of persons. See Acts 10:34 and Romans 2:11 as well as James 2:1-13, but you have no need that I tell you this. Then we are taught (b/c 'in His teaching it is said:') that they devour widow's houses and that is just part off what earns the greater condemnation.
see http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Mark 12.38-44 for more

But then, as the instruction continues, we hear about the Widow's Mite. Jesus isn't teaching compounding interest formulas. But he does say that he will come with heavenly reward for those faithful.

... And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. And he called [unto him] his disciples, and saith unto them, "Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: For all [they] did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, [even] all her living."
[Mar 12:41-44 KJV]​

So now, if we are only talking about blessing being poured out like the Chase Manhandling Bank-robbers then the interest of the Widow's Mite would be, given 4% interest, compounded quarterly, over a period of 2000 years? Well, that's where the calculator comes in.

View attachment 7407 ​

P=0.0025 (two times 1/8th of a cent)
r= 0.04 (4% interest rate)
n=4 (number of months for Quarterly compounding)
t=2,000 (tine in years)

Amount = P (1+(r/n)^(4x2000)
Amount = 0.0025 (1 + (0.04 / 4) ^ (8000)

My batteries on my calculator are missing (I took them out after my last math class - so they would not leak) and online calculators say, "Enter realistic numbers," when I try to do the math there. So I don't know the answer. Probably somebody here does or can express it well... but my point is that Jesus will bless and pour out more than what we might expect if we were to trust David Chase and his ilk.

Jeremiah 29:11

Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile an account of the things accomplished among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word,…
Luke 1:1

​

But before we leave this, I also notice that Jesus condemned because they 'devour' houses. What's up with that? When I search Google it is suggested that oftentimes Scribes also acts as lawyers and offer their 'service' to help settle disputes.

Quoting BibleTruthOnline, "So many people had
them invovled in legal matters, and managing their money! [sic]

Scribes are a great occupation! You are an authority on God and
his words and can clarify them unlike God can, you are a lawyer
and can influence decision making, and you are a personal banker
in the trusted position of handling money of other people.

WOW! Who would have thought these scribes are so nice and helpful?
​

Sometimes when I tithe I can't help but to think of the blessings which may come my way (only human), but then, I'm always reminded of Lazarus and the rich man. Sure I need and want the blessings now, but think, do I really? I'd rather do my suffering here and not make draws on my rewards in heaven.

If a blessing does not come through for me now, will it really matter to me? Probably not, I'll live through it somehow. And I always do so far, lol.

 

[WIP]

My dear friend WIP. In that scripture you quoted the sold everything and divided among all who needed what and went house to house breaking bread and the numbers were added. Another scripture says all gave to Peter, and he gave to all who needed what for there journey.

I dont know a church that its members have services at each others houses, or divides the tithe back to all its members who maybe struggling, one member is rich and another poor the church should look after its members. Divide so everyone can pay bills. Not people giving and cant eat for a week while the church is loaded. It doesnt give back and divide equally.

You can have a 50000 member chuch and people just have service at each others houses. You dont have to pack them all in a single building and cry broke. The Church is spiritual. You see, i could go your place and fellowship and offer a gift, thrn go eugenes, then rebas and so on. Just an example.

In our church we have funds to help those in need and we would love to help. But those in need must swallow their pride to let us know and that, my friend, is not so easy for them to do. One of the most difficult things I find is to know those in need in my area. I know they are out there but they aren't presenting themselves to us. So we, as a church, give to support missions that we believe help those in need. We are a small congregation of only 30 families at last count but we support over a dozen organizations that specialize in helping others get food, shelter, clothing, and spread the word of God. We try to do something. Can we do more? I'm sure we can as can you. There's power in numbers. By contributing to your church there is more to go around. Unless of course, your church is lining is pockets instead. Our pastor only gets a $26,000.00 salary and he pays his own retirement fund by choice. We offered more but he won't accept it. It bothers me when I hear about pastors with huge salaries. I can't help but wonder where their priorities really are.

Obviously, I'm not you and I am not in your shoes but putting myself in your place, I'd want to ask myself if I am using what I perceive as corruption in the church as an excuse not to provide support. Do I just attend services and not get involved in the inner workings? In our church for example, the congregation is an integral part of the process. We are all involved one way or another. Some serve on the church council, some serve by sharing their talents for music in both instrumental and vocal, some serve by sharing their talents by greeting everyone as they enter, some serve by participating in different church organizations such as our quilting group that makes quilts to give to the poor, etc. Our church is run by our congregation. There are costs that go along with that but in the end our goal is to use what God provides as efficiently as we can toward spreading His gospel in whatever way He would have us do.