God makes some vessels unto honor, some unto dishonor-- are both God's elect?

[jonahmano]

I didn't. Popular doctrine about God purposely deciding who he will make a believer, and who he will make an unbeliever determined that.

According to this doctrine, the few that get saved are few because God only made a few of them that are programmed ahead of time to be saved with no thought or consideration of what they might want.



...because, according to popular predestination doctrine, God decided beforehand to make them people who will deliberately forsake the Commandments of God, with no choice or opportunity of their own to do otherwise.



And popular predestination doctrine in the church these days say God purposely made them so they would not believe in him and never had a chance to believe.

What is your doctrine then? have you come here to play with the scriptures?

 

[jonahmano]

I didn't. Popular doctrine about God purposely deciding who he will make a believer, and who he will make an unbeliever determined that.

According to this doctrine, the few that get saved are few because God only made a few of them that are programmed ahead of time to be saved with no thought or consideration of what they, or the unbelievers he made, might want.



...because, according to popular predestination doctrine, God decided beforehand to make them people who will deliberately forsake the Commandments of God, with no choice or opportunity of their own to do otherwise.



And popular predestination doctrine in the church these days say God purposely made them so they would not believe in him and never had a chance to believe.

I know the mighty God has all answers for this. Anyways I'm happy that I'm in because the road of faith is not that broad that every man can come in. There is a price to pay and there is a suffering to bear.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I know the mighty God has all answers for this. Anyways I'm happy that I'm in because the road of faith is not that broad that every man can come in.

I call this the 'I'm saved and you're not, and there's nothing I can do about it, that's just the way it is' thinking in the church today.

It goes over great when you're witnessing to people. It brings people to Christ in droves.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What is your doctrine then? have you come here to play with the scriptures?

Doctrine? "I don't need no stinkin' doctrine"

 

[jonahmano]

I call this the 'I'm saved and you're not, and there's nothing I can do about it, that's just the way it is' thinking in the church today.

It goes over great when you're witnessing to people. It brings people to Christ in droves.

hahahahah

Hey man we can do anything you want but we can't go against the scriptures. When the scripture says there is no name by which anyone can be saved except Christ then can we go against it? When then scripture says It's by grace ye are saved through faith and not by works lest any man can boast then can we go against it? When the scripture says Many are called only few are chosen then can we do anything about it?

 

[Deborah13]

I didn't. Popular doctrine about God purposely deciding who he will make a believer, and who he will make an unbeliever determined that.

According to this doctrine, the few that get saved are few because God only made a few of them that are programmed ahead of time to be saved with no thought or consideration of what they, or the unbelievers he made, might want.

...because, according to popular predestination doctrine, God decided beforehand to make them people who will deliberately forsake the Commandments of God, with no choice or opportunity of their own to do otherwise.

And popular predestination doctrine in the church these days say God purposely made them so they would not believe in him and never had a chance to believe.

What is your definition of 'these days'?

 

[Deborah13]

Doctrine? "I don't need no stinkin' doctrine"

Everyone has a 'doctrine' a 'philosophy' that they believe.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Everyone has a 'doctrine' a 'philosophy' that they believe.

I was being funny.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What is your definition of 'these days'?

Presently.

Starting about 500 years ago.

This misunderstanding of Paul's doctrine of grace/works which gives strength to these 'I'm saved and there's nothing you or I can do about it' doctrines began with the reformation.

 

[reba]

I was being funny.

You were ? :tongue

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You were ? :tongue

:tongue back at 'cha, lol!

 

[jonahmano]

You were ? :tongue

No where have your administrative skills gone?

 

[jonahmano]

Presently.

Starting about 500 years ago.

This misunderstanding of Paul's doctrine of grace/works which gives strength to these 'I'm saved and there's nothing you or I can do about it' doctrines began with the reformation.

Why are you so much concerned about doctrines? Why can't you embrace the simplicity of the gospel?

 

[Deborah13]

I was being funny.

Well there I go again....taking things too seriously ! Sorry!

 

[Deborah13]

Presently.

Starting about 500 years ago.

This misunderstanding of Paul's doctrine of grace/works which gives strength to these 'I'm saved and there's nothing you or I can do about it' doctrines began with the reformation.

I just wanted you to state that so those who are reading this thread would correctly understand you.
I know you like to keep replies short but lately we have a lot of new members popping in and out that may not understand these things without reading back through a long thread.
Thanks Jethro for your response.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Why are you so much concerned about doctrines? Why can't you embrace the simplicity of the gospel?

This is funny because that's exactly what I was thinking your doctrine does, lol.

The fundamental problem with your doctrine is that it contradicts plain scripture that tells us God wants all men to be saved, not just a few he purposely made to be saved apart from their own will to be saved, while the rest of mankind is made to perish apart from their own choice to do so because they are neither given the chance to believe nor are they even crafted with the capacity to do so.

I in no way think it's right to say we are to take something on faith and just trust God's so-called wisdom when that wisdom plainly contradicts other plain evidence in the scriptures. I'm not doing that with the scriptures anymore.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Presently.

Starting about 500 years ago.

This misunderstanding of Paul's doctrine of grace/works which gives strength to these 'I'm saved and there's nothing you or I can do about it' doctrines began with the reformation.

I think the reformers actually stressed works quite a bit. Easy believeism came later.

Have you read the works of any of the reformers? If so, who?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I think the reformers actually stressed works quite a bit. Easy believeism came later.

I almost alluded to this in my post, but I'm trying to keep my posts short.

Thank you for making the point. It's important.

Have you read the works of any of the reformers? If so, who?

Honestly, I haven't read any.

I thrive on a lot of second hand knowledge, lol.

 

[By Grace]

Why are you so much concerned about doctrines? Why can't you embrace the simplicity of the gospel?

If I understand you properly, it seems as if you are saying "Doctrine is inferior to the Bible." Is that an accurate summary of what you are saying? Please correct or expand that assumption before proceeding further.

The second question I ask you is "From where do we get doctrines, and how are doctrines decided as truth?"

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I almost alluded to this in my post, but I'm trying to keep my posts short.

Thank you for making the point. It's important.

No problem.

Honestly, I haven't read any.

I thrive on a lot of second hand knowledge, lol.

I think that's fine, we can't all spend the time and energy to read their works. I definitely wouldn't recommend it unless you're 1) Reformed in your soteriology, or 2) really into Church History.