Life after death
Member
I believe God will forgive a true believer who commit suicide. What is your thought?
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Do you think suicide is unforgivable sin?
- Thread starter Life after death
- Start date
Amen, very well put.
Off topic please start a new thread on that topic. Thank you.
Her name is Bernadette Todd and she's married to a wonderful soul, Jeff Todd. We served together in south Miami-Dade county, FL. She is as gentle a spirit as you might ever find, but her testimony is just such a moving story. It's on one of her videos, but she has given her entire life to sharing Jesus all over North and South America. Praise God! Jeff and Bernadette are just two very simple people who love Jesus.
Jesus loves you.
God bless,
Ted
Even as an unbeliever, I never blamed God for anything.
As a believer, I can't fathom any other believer blaming God for anything.
Believers can "drop their masks" to show they were never believers in the first place, but if you believe how good and merciful God is, you would never blame Him for bad things.
Sometimes it is, but other times we are to "hate the clothing they wear".
Jude 22-23..."And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."
Motive is important.
I am amazed that so many of them are not open to treatment.
God is good.
Riven
Member
I envy you then. When I saw a dead child in a casket, that was enough for me to blame God. When my friend overdosed and I had to see him in the casket, that certainly didn't help. When I discovered a woman that had been dead for three weeks and her body being eaten by all her cats, that wasn't pleasant.
The point is, life isn't all sunshine and rainbows. Is blaming God the right thing to do? Probably not. But maybe try to have a little more understanding for what others may have gone through in this life before passing judgment.
journeyman
Member
We can all testify of the road we were on by our own sins and how those sins are really no different than the ones inflicted on our Savior ((Pro.6:16).)
It can be hard for people who aren't in a right mind to go out for help. When I was in a bad way like that years ago, I prayed. That's all I could do. God sent a servant.
He sure is. He has given us everything to share with those in need.
Life after death
Member
How about righteous people like job who did that?
Life after death
Member
That is always said but people can ask why then God don't stop the devil. You might think you are doing God for God.
But in fact if you read the book of job it is on people like this God wrath was kindled
Life after death
Member
I am not catholic but this is what a very carring and compassionate father said.
Suicide – The Most
Misunderstood of all Deaths
Death is always painful, but its pains are
compounded considerably if its cause is
suicide.
Father RON
ROLHEISER
We tend to think that if a death is self-inflicted it is voluntary in a way that death through physical illness or
accident is not. For most suicides, this isn’t true. A person who falls victim to suicide dies, as does the victim
of a terminal illness or fatal accident, not by his or her own choice. When people die from heart attacks, strokes,
cancer, AIDS, and accidents, they die against their will. The same is true of suicide, except that in the case of
suicide the breakdown is emotional rather than physical of the emotional immune system, an emotional fatality.
This is not an analogy. The two kinds of heart attacks, strokes, cancers, break-downs of the immune-system, and fatal accidents, are identical in that, in neither case, is the person leaving this world on the basis of a voluntary decision of his or her own will. In both cases, he or she is taken out of life against his or her own will. That’s why we speak of someone as a “victim” of suicide. Given this fact, we should not worry unduly about the eternal salvation of a suicide victim, believing (as we used to) that suicide is always an act of ultimate despair. God is infinitely more understanding than we are and God’s hands are infinitely safer and more gentle than our own. Imagine a loving mother having just given birth,
welcoming her child onto her breast for the first time. That, I believe is the best image we have available to understand how a suicide victim (most often an overly sensitive soul) is received into the next life........A proper human and faith response to suicide should not
be horror, fear for the victim’s eternal salvation, or guilty second-guessing about how we failed this person.
Suicide is indeed a horrible way to die, but we must understand it (at least in most cases) as a sickness, a disease, an illness, a tragic breakdown within the emotional immunesystem. And then we must trust, in God’s goodness, God’s understanding, God’s power to
descend into hell and God’s power to redeem all things, even death, even death by suicide.Used with permission of the author, Oblate Father Ron Rolheiser. Currently, Father Rolheiser is serving as President of the Oblate School of Theology in San Antonio, Texas. He can be contacted through his
website, www.ronrolheiser.com. Facebook www.facebook.com/
ronrolheiser.
Does anybody agree with this?
Suicide – The Most
Misunderstood of all Deaths
Death is always painful, but its pains are
compounded considerably if its cause is
suicide.
Father RON
ROLHEISER
We tend to think that if a death is self-inflicted it is voluntary in a way that death through physical illness or
accident is not. For most suicides, this isn’t true. A person who falls victim to suicide dies, as does the victim
of a terminal illness or fatal accident, not by his or her own choice. When people die from heart attacks, strokes,
cancer, AIDS, and accidents, they die against their will. The same is true of suicide, except that in the case of
suicide the breakdown is emotional rather than physical of the emotional immune system, an emotional fatality.
This is not an analogy. The two kinds of heart attacks, strokes, cancers, break-downs of the immune-system, and fatal accidents, are identical in that, in neither case, is the person leaving this world on the basis of a voluntary decision of his or her own will. In both cases, he or she is taken out of life against his or her own will. That’s why we speak of someone as a “victim” of suicide. Given this fact, we should not worry unduly about the eternal salvation of a suicide victim, believing (as we used to) that suicide is always an act of ultimate despair. God is infinitely more understanding than we are and God’s hands are infinitely safer and more gentle than our own. Imagine a loving mother having just given birth,
welcoming her child onto her breast for the first time. That, I believe is the best image we have available to understand how a suicide victim (most often an overly sensitive soul) is received into the next life........A proper human and faith response to suicide should not
be horror, fear for the victim’s eternal salvation, or guilty second-guessing about how we failed this person.
Suicide is indeed a horrible way to die, but we must understand it (at least in most cases) as a sickness, a disease, an illness, a tragic breakdown within the emotional immunesystem. And then we must trust, in God’s goodness, God’s understanding, God’s power to
descend into hell and God’s power to redeem all things, even death, even death by suicide.Used with permission of the author, Oblate Father Ron Rolheiser. Currently, Father Rolheiser is serving as President of the Oblate School of Theology in San Antonio, Texas. He can be contacted through his
website, www.ronrolheiser.com. Facebook www.facebook.com/
ronrolheiser.
Does anybody agree with this?
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D-D-W
2024 Supporter
Not sure I do. I have always considered suicide any death that the decedent did not fight against with every fiber of their being. The God-given instinct is to preserve our own life at almost any cost.
Life after death
Member
Luke 18:10: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11: The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12: I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13: And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14: I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Life after death
Member
Father Ron Rolheiser also said this about suicide.
For centuries, suicide was considered as an act of despair and despair itself was seen as the most grievous sin of all. In many religious circles, despair was seen as the most sinful of all acts and ultimately unforgivable.
Sadly, a strong residue of that remains, suicide is still seen by many as an act of despair, an affront to God and to life itself, an unforgivable relinquishing of hope. Many church people still see suicide as an act of despair and as the unforgivable sin against the Holy Spirit. But this is a misunderstanding. Suicide is not an act of despair and is not an act which cannot be forgiven. That suicide is an act of despair is not what the Christian Churches, and certainly not the Roman Catholic Church, believe or teach.
My purpose here is not to disparage what our churches teach about either suicide or despair, but rather to highlight with more accuracy what they do teach. The same holds true for people who still believe that suicide is an act of despair and an unforgivable sin. I am not disparaging their belief but trying rather to free them from a false fear (based on a misunderstanding) which surely must cause them grief and anxiety vis-à-vis loved ones who have died by suicide.
Suicide is not despair. Dictionaries define despair as the complete lack or absence of hope. But that’s not what happens in most suicides. What does happen?
The person who is taking his or her own life is not intending that act as an insult or affront to God or to life (for that would be an act of strength and suicide is generally the antithesis of that). What happens in most suicides is the polar opposite.The suicide is the result of a mammoth defeat.
There’s a powerful scene in the musical adaption of Victor Hugo’s, Les Miserables. A young woman,Fantine, lies dying. She tells of once being youthful and full of hopeful dreams; but now worn-down by a lifetime of poverty, crushed by a broken heart, and overcome by physical illness, she is defeated and has to submit to the tearful fact that“there are storms we cannot weather”.
She’s right, and anyone who does not accept that truth will one day come to a painful and bitter understanding of it. There are things in this life that will crush us, and surrender isn’t an act of despair and indeed isn’t a free act at all. It’s a humbling, sad defeat.
And that’s the case with most people who die from suicide. For reasons ranging from mental illness to an infinite variety of overpowering storms that can break a person, there’s sometimes a point in people’s lives where they are overpowered, defeated, and unable to continue to will their own living – parallel to one who dies as a victim of a drought, hurricane, cancer, heart disease, diabetes, or Alzheimer’s. There’s no sin in being overpowered by a deadly storm. We can be overpowered, and some people are, but that’s not despair (which can only be willful and an act of strength).
To begin with, we don’t understand mental illness, which can be just as a real and just as death-producing as any physical illness. We don’t blame someone for dying from cancer, a stroke, or a physical accident, but we invariably cast moral shadows on someone who dies as a result of various mental illnesses which play a deadly role in many suicides. Happily, God is still in charge and our flawed understanding, while generally permanently tainting the way someone is remembered in this world, doesn’t in effect salvation on the other side.
Beyond mental illness we can be defeated in life by many other things. Tragedy, heartbreaking loss, unrequited obsession, and crippling shame can at times break a heart, crush a will, kill a spirit, and bring death to a body. And our judgment on this should reflect our understanding of God: What all-loving, merciful God would condemn someone because he or she, like Victor Hugo’s, Fantine, could not weather the storm? Does God side with our own narrow notions where salvation is mostly reserved for the strong? Not if Jesus is to be believed.
Notice when Jesus points out sin he doesn’t point to where we are weak and defeated; rather he points to where we are strong, arrogant, indifferent, and judgmental. Search the Gospels and ask this question: On whom is Jesus hardest? The answer is clear: Jesus is hardest on those who are strong, judgmental, and have no feeling for those who are enduring the storm. Notice what he says about the rich man who ignores the poor man at his doorstep, what he says about the priest and scribe who ignore the man beaten in a ditch, and how critical he is of the scribes and Pharisees who are quick to define who falls under God’s judgment and who doesn’t.
Only a faulty understanding of God can underwrite the unfortunate notion that being crushed in life constitutes despair.
Father Rolheiser is serving as President of the Oblate School of Theology in San Antonio, Texas. He can be contacted through his
website, www.ronrolheiser.com. Facebook www.facebook.com/
For centuries, suicide was considered as an act of despair and despair itself was seen as the most grievous sin of all. In many religious circles, despair was seen as the most sinful of all acts and ultimately unforgivable.
Sadly, a strong residue of that remains, suicide is still seen by many as an act of despair, an affront to God and to life itself, an unforgivable relinquishing of hope. Many church people still see suicide as an act of despair and as the unforgivable sin against the Holy Spirit. But this is a misunderstanding. Suicide is not an act of despair and is not an act which cannot be forgiven. That suicide is an act of despair is not what the Christian Churches, and certainly not the Roman Catholic Church, believe or teach.
My purpose here is not to disparage what our churches teach about either suicide or despair, but rather to highlight with more accuracy what they do teach. The same holds true for people who still believe that suicide is an act of despair and an unforgivable sin. I am not disparaging their belief but trying rather to free them from a false fear (based on a misunderstanding) which surely must cause them grief and anxiety vis-à-vis loved ones who have died by suicide.
Suicide is not despair. Dictionaries define despair as the complete lack or absence of hope. But that’s not what happens in most suicides. What does happen?
The person who is taking his or her own life is not intending that act as an insult or affront to God or to life (for that would be an act of strength and suicide is generally the antithesis of that). What happens in most suicides is the polar opposite.The suicide is the result of a mammoth defeat.
There’s a powerful scene in the musical adaption of Victor Hugo’s, Les Miserables. A young woman,Fantine, lies dying. She tells of once being youthful and full of hopeful dreams; but now worn-down by a lifetime of poverty, crushed by a broken heart, and overcome by physical illness, she is defeated and has to submit to the tearful fact that“there are storms we cannot weather”.
She’s right, and anyone who does not accept that truth will one day come to a painful and bitter understanding of it. There are things in this life that will crush us, and surrender isn’t an act of despair and indeed isn’t a free act at all. It’s a humbling, sad defeat.
And that’s the case with most people who die from suicide. For reasons ranging from mental illness to an infinite variety of overpowering storms that can break a person, there’s sometimes a point in people’s lives where they are overpowered, defeated, and unable to continue to will their own living – parallel to one who dies as a victim of a drought, hurricane, cancer, heart disease, diabetes, or Alzheimer’s. There’s no sin in being overpowered by a deadly storm. We can be overpowered, and some people are, but that’s not despair (which can only be willful and an act of strength).
To begin with, we don’t understand mental illness, which can be just as a real and just as death-producing as any physical illness. We don’t blame someone for dying from cancer, a stroke, or a physical accident, but we invariably cast moral shadows on someone who dies as a result of various mental illnesses which play a deadly role in many suicides. Happily, God is still in charge and our flawed understanding, while generally permanently tainting the way someone is remembered in this world, doesn’t in effect salvation on the other side.
Beyond mental illness we can be defeated in life by many other things. Tragedy, heartbreaking loss, unrequited obsession, and crippling shame can at times break a heart, crush a will, kill a spirit, and bring death to a body. And our judgment on this should reflect our understanding of God: What all-loving, merciful God would condemn someone because he or she, like Victor Hugo’s, Fantine, could not weather the storm? Does God side with our own narrow notions where salvation is mostly reserved for the strong? Not if Jesus is to be believed.
Notice when Jesus points out sin he doesn’t point to where we are weak and defeated; rather he points to where we are strong, arrogant, indifferent, and judgmental. Search the Gospels and ask this question: On whom is Jesus hardest? The answer is clear: Jesus is hardest on those who are strong, judgmental, and have no feeling for those who are enduring the storm. Notice what he says about the rich man who ignores the poor man at his doorstep, what he says about the priest and scribe who ignore the man beaten in a ditch, and how critical he is of the scribes and Pharisees who are quick to define who falls under God’s judgment and who doesn’t.
Only a faulty understanding of God can underwrite the unfortunate notion that being crushed in life constitutes despair.
Father Rolheiser is serving as President of the Oblate School of Theology in San Antonio, Texas. He can be contacted through his
website, www.ronrolheiser.com. Facebook www.facebook.com/
Last edited: