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Is Christ coming in our life time or is it history

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Larry H said:
Greetings

Most Christians consider as I did that the coming or Parousia of Christ is future. However in my research I found some interesting stuff labeled preterism. The idea changed my way of looking at the NT. That Christ did come in judgment on the Jewish Nation in AD 70 as prophesied in Matthew Chapter 24. I suppose many have come across this theology surfing the web.

Nonetheless my findings of a third coming is not over so far. There are two schools of thought on the preterist view. Full Preterism and Partial Preterism; at the time I’m standing on a fence.

Full Preterist believe all prophecy fulfilled in the first century, and Partial Preterist considers most but no all prophecy fulfilled in the first century.

There are unbelievers that can see the writing on the wall of a first century return, their argument goes like this. “He said He was coming and it was a no show.â€

Larry H
Click to expand...
Lets see if we can stay on topic!
 
Larry H said:
Greetings

Most Christians consider as I did that the coming or Parousia of Christ is future. However in my research I found some interesting stuff labeled preterism. The idea changed my way of looking at the NT. That Christ did come in judgment on the Jewish Nation in AD 70 as prophesied in Matthew Chapter 24. I suppose many have come across this theology surfing the web.

Nonetheless my findings of a third coming is not over so far. There are two schools of thought on the preterist view. Full Preterism and Partial Preterism; at the time I’m standing on a fence.

Full Preterist believe all prophecy fulfilled in the first century, and Partial Preterist considers most but no all prophecy fulfilled in the first century.

There are unbelievers that can see the writing on the wall of a first century return, their argument goes like this. “He said He was coming and it was a no show.â€

Larry H
Click to expand...

Larry,

I would like to hear what you believe in light of your post, specifically your comment -

That Christ did come in judgment on the Jewish Nation in AD 70 as prophesied in Matthew Chapter 24.

Please share with me what you believe the key verse's in Matthew 24 that led you to believe this.

Thanks JLB
 
Originally Posted By Sinthesis,

The correct answer is both. The correct answer to the OP is 'both'. Can you reconcile?
Click to expand...


Exactly! Jesus IS, WAS, and IS TO COME! He isn't exclusively 'WAS' (preterist), He isn't exclusively 'IS TO COME' (futurist), and He isn't exclusively 'IS.'


Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, saith the Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."


The prophecies preterists and futurists (& dispensationalists) argue over indeed apply to the generation in which the New Testament was written.......... as well as every generation since. It is neither futurist in character, nor is it preterist. A futurist (dispensationalist), or a preterist, knows only one-third of who Christ is.


Revelation 1:3 "Blessed is he that readeth, [at any, and all times] and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand."

Revelation 22:7 "Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings [ALL sayings] of the prophecy of this book."

The time is ALWAYS at hand!


"My words shall never pass away... the time is [always] at hand."
 
Can a preterist please tell me where these people are..................... .

1 Thessalonians 4:14
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
 
Where are these, that shine forth as the sun!

n2thelight said:
Can a preterist please tell me where these people are..................... .

1 Thessalonians 4:14
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Click to expand...

People who have died in Christ, are in fact with the Lord.

However, I would ask preterist' this question along with you -

Where are these, that shine forth as the sun!

39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

A good example of the righteous shining forth as the sun is found in Matthew 17, in the account of Jesus on the mount of transfiguration.

and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.

So with that said, I would ask the preterist', where are these that are shining forth as the sun, if Jesus has in fact returned.


Furthermore, why are the lawless people and criminals and such still walking around on earth, when Jesus said clearly -

The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

and again -

49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

Here is what we must ask ourselves -

51 Jesus said to them, "Have you understood all these things?"

Do we understand these things?

Do we understand that when Jesus returns, ALL the lawless people will be gathered up and be cast into the fire, which will leave only the righteous who will shine forth as the sun.
Look around, we are awaiting that Glorious Day!

JLB
 
We are these, that shine forth as the sun!

Verse 1

This little light of mine I'm gonna let it shine
This little light of mine I'm gonna let it shine
This little light of mine I'm gonna let it shine
Let it shine/Let it shine/Let it shine

Verse 2
V. 1
Everywhere I go/I'm gonna let it shine
Everywhere I go/I'm gonna let it shine
Everywhere I go/I'm gonna let it shine
Let it shine/Let it shine/Let it shine

V. 2
Hide it under a bushel Oh no!/I'm going to let it shine
Hide it under a bushel Oh no!/I'm going to let it shine
Hide it under a bushel Oh no!/I'm going to let it shine
Let it Shine/All the time/Let it shine/Oh yeah!

Verse 3
V. 1
Jesus gave me the light/I'm gonna let it shine
Jesus gave me the light/I'm gonna let it shine
Jesus gave me the light/I'm gonna let it shine
Let it shine/Let it shine/Let it shine

V. 2
Don't let the Satan blow it out/I'm going to let it shine
Don't let the Satan blow it out/I'm going to let it shine
Don't let the Satan blow it out/I'm going to let it shine
Let it Shine/All the time/Let it shine/Oh yeah!​

Have you understood all these things?
 
Christ could come in our lifetime or afterwards. He came the first time when He came in the flesh as a baby, who was Jesus, the only begotten Son of God, the Messiah Savior of all who repent and receive Him
 
I'm sure Larry you will be able to work it out......consider that there is more than one way for someone to 'see Jesus sitting at the right hand of God'. The unbelieving who condemned him to death were forced to 'see' their mistake when their position and city was destroyed. It was painful negative proof that they were wrong. To see can also can be to understand or realize.

Jesus said to him, "http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/matthew/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-84You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/matthew/26.html#fn-descriptionAnchor-vhereafter you will see http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/matthew/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-85THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/matthew/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-86COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.

Digging
 
Sinthesis said:
We are these, that shine forth as the sun!
Verse 1

This little light of mine I'm gonna let it shine
This little light of mine I'm gonna let it shine
This little light of mine I'm gonna let it shine
Let it shine/Let it shine/Let it shine

Verse 2
V. 1
Everywhere I go/I'm gonna let it shine
Everywhere I go/I'm gonna let it shine
Everywhere I go/I'm gonna let it shine
Let it shine/Let it shine/Let it shine

V. 2
Hide it under a bushel Oh no!/I'm going to let it shine
Hide it under a bushel Oh no!/I'm going to let it shine
Hide it under a bushel Oh no!/I'm going to let it shine
Let it Shine/All the time/Let it shine/Oh yeah!

Verse 3
V. 1
Jesus gave me the light/I'm gonna let it shine
Jesus gave me the light/I'm gonna let it shine
Jesus gave me the light/I'm gonna let it shine
Let it shine/Let it shine/Let it shine

V. 2
Don't let the Satan blow it out/I'm going to let it shine
Don't let the Satan blow it out/I'm going to let it shine
Don't let the Satan blow it out/I'm going to let it shine
Let it Shine/All the time/Let it shine/Oh yeah!​
Have you understood all these things?
Click to expand...

I understand you have no scripture to answer the words of Jesus Christ.

JLB
 
JLB said:
I understand you have no scripture to answer the words of Jesus Christ.

JLB
Click to expand...

Jesus Christ didn't ask the question; you did. If you don't understand that in sharing the Gospel you are shining with the reflected light of the Son of God, then you must not have ears to hear.
 
Sinthesis said:
Jesus Christ didn't ask the question; you did. If you don't understand that in sharing the Gospel you are shining with the reflected light of the Son of God, then you must not have ears to hear.
Click to expand...


EDITED

39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

Show me where Paul or John or any of those that preached the Gospel in the New Testament, Shined forth as the Sun.

The example of this is given to us as a record of what this means -

and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. Matthew 17:2

Jesus walked in the example of what it means to shine forth as the sun.

No where in scripture do we find that this was fulfilled.

This event coincides with the wicked being gathered up by the angels and cast into the fire, whereby only the righteous will be left!

The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

So once again, the scriptures show the fallacy of the false teachings of the man-made doctrines of preterism!

So once again, you have no scriptures to validate anything you say.


JLB
 
Pastor Dave said:
As for Partial Preterism, I don't see how there is any such thing. The word "preterism" comes from the Latin word "praeter", which means "past", or "in the past". So how can any view which says that things are yet future, be "preterist"?
Click to expand...

All Christians are preterist.
We only vary by degree.

Every Christian believes at least SOME Last Days Prophesy was fulfilled in the first century, for the Bible records such fulfillment:

Acts 2:14-18
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.

Peter Infallibly claims that what they were witnessing before their very eyes on that day was indeed the FULFILLMENT of the prophet Joel's LAST DAYS prophesy.

So, to your point that people can't believe in the fulfillment of SOME last days prophesy while still holding to a future to us consumation is demonstrable false.

All Christians are preterist.
We only vary by degree.


And Hello everyone :)
 
31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:


If there are still wicked people on this earth, then Jesus has not returned.


JLB
 
No, It could mean the wicked on this Earth are just not living in His Kingdom. The problem is the narrow and exclusive way Jesus' return is commonly defined. Multiple definitions of 'return' can logically each have their own fulfillment, without transgressing into multiple returns. This technique is more common in eschatology than you might think.
 
JLB said:
If there are still wicked people on this earth, then Jesus has not returned.


JLB
Click to expand...

Yet Revelation 22 describes a reality POST return of Christ where Wicked people are alive on earth just outside the gates of the New Jerusalem:
Revelation 22:14-15
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments,[g] that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But[h] outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
 
Rev33 said:
Yet Revelation 22 describes a reality POST return of Christ where Wicked people are alive on earth just outside the gates of the New Jerusalem:
Revelation 22:14-15
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments,[g] that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But[h] outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
Click to expand...

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. Revelation 20:7-9

After the 1000 years!


JLB
 
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