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Is Christ coming in our life time or is it history
- Thread starter Larry H
- Start date
endtimesdeut32/70AD
Member
Many who believe in the early date of revelatiin and the fullfilled peespectives find the fulfillment of the 1000 yrs in the lifespan of jesus 70 yrs with a particular ephasis of the aposolic generation from @30-@70 Ad. The battle of Gog/magog could thus describe the bar kochabah revolt of @ 100 yrs after the cross....
The 1000 yrs ending @70 AD can be subtantiated in at least 2 literal time 1000 yr time periods, as well as being a phrase symbolizing a trial that has just past, ps:90:4,, or the "day" of a man's given lifespan.
By the way, which of the churches listed as addressees are yiu or any of us a participant or congregant????
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I'm sure anyone who has not been Baptized in the Holy Spirit can come up with just about anything in scripture.
JLB
endtimesdeut32/70AD
Member
I think they were among the ones who twisted Pauls letters as they also did the scriptures.
But tat didn't answer the question as to which of the originally addressed first century churches you are associated with.
Can you answer; what occurred @1000 yrs before the ross and @1000 yrs before 70AD in national Israels history?
2ndly, If we allow that Jesus accomplished thae latter 40 yrs of his 70 yr allotted lifespan under law in a spiritual body and through the indwelling of his followers, How much short of 1000 is 70yrs?? If Jesus is referred to as the second Adsm in 1cor 15 and Rom 3,4 how could Jesus fulfill and redeem the life of mankind effected by ignorance and the tempter??
K
King James
Guest
Tribulation will be over by May 14, 2018 or earllier unless the current Israel is no the real one. If it isn't, then we may be looking at about 1,000 years from now.
Speculating what Jesus would/could accomplish if He lived another 40 years is the seed bed of Heresy.
Do you claim Jesus Christ has come already and the resurrection is past?
JLB
endtimesdeut32/70AD
Member
you do have a way of avoiding interaction and questions.
It is not speculation but affirming what was propecied about his ckming. Isaiah 61:2,3 for example talks about the beauty of the lives of the believers to replace the ashes and sorrow of the loss of the temple. Thus the "day of vengeance is associated with the destruction of the temple and against his and the believers enemies. It is part of the acceptable year or lifespan of the lord!!! A persons "day" is the same as his "year" or lifespan which under mosaic law was 70-80 yrs. Furthermore 40 yrs coincides with the age of David during his reign and the length of both his and solomons reign. Fulfilled TRUTH is the opposite of heresy.!!!!
I'm confused; I thought it was an agreed upon belief that Jesus rose from the dead, but you imply that he wasn't alive at the tme of 70 ad which is only the length of a generation. (Heb 3:10)
Its great to have these topics.
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Sinthesis
Member
This is numerically interesting. I'm not sure I'm buying what your selling, but it is interesting. I love parallels.
... the beauty of the lives of the believers to replace the ashes and sorrow of the loss of the temple.
Claiming that Isaiah is speaking here about "replacing the ashes and sorrow of the loss of the temple, then yes I do agree that you are confused.
as you have admitted - I'm confused;
The Spirit of the Lord was upon Jesus to preach the Gospel, which has nothing to do with the temple.
"The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed; 19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord." 20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21 And He began to say to them, "Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing." Luke 4:18-21
"The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me, Because the Lord has anointed Me To preach good tidings to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives, And the opening of the prison to those who are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, And the day of vengeance of our God; To comfort all who mourn, 3 To console those who mourn in Zion, To give them beauty for ashes, The oil of joy for mourning, The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; That they may be called trees of righteousness, The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified." Isaiah 61:1-3
Was Titus destroyed? No
Was the Roman army destroyed? No
Again, I agre with you that you are confused, as you claim.
I will ask you again, Do you claim to believe that Jesus Christ has returned already and that the resurrection is past?
If you are ashamed at what you believe, then I don't blame you because after all it's Heresy.
Not only that it is like a cancer, as it is written -
16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:16-18
These fine people that God has raised up to start and run this Forum have for good reason forbidden the teaching of such heresy for the very reason that like a cancer it is best to remove it before it spreads.
So, I can see why you don't answer the question because it is a shameful thing to try and overthrow the faith of some, especially those who are seeking a safe place to grow and learn the Truth of God's word.
JLB
endtimesdeut32/70AD
Member
Under the laws of Hebrew parralelism, the acceptable year of the lord is inseperable from the 'day' of vengeance of our God. Jesus closed the book to emphasize the positive acceptence and belief in him.
Jesus affirmed this principle in john 3 saying that he had not come to condemn the world, but to save the world, and that he who didn't believe in (accept) him (or the reality of living trancendant father and maker of life) was 'condemned' already. They were under the law of sin/death ( or law of moses) or in ignorance. Did the jews all believe, or did they continue to believe in Moses? Was a 'vengeance' and accounting of ones life prophecied and neccessitated to cease the persecution and oppression from the disbelieving majority in deut 18:15-19 and Acts 3:22-24? as also described in deut 32 and Isaiah 59.
In john 5:24,25 the principle is further supported that he who believed (accepted; Is 61)had already crossed over fro m death to life and would not come into condemnation, wrath, vengeance. (IS 61:3) When,?? the time then was when the dead were hearing the voice of the son of msn and living.
Re: the romans as the enemy. There is a difference in deut 32 and Isaiah 59 between 'the enemy" (Deuteronomy 32:27,42; Isaiah 59:19) also called 'our enemies' in deut 32:29 which are the romans; AND "MINE enemies of Deuteronomy 42:41 (compare Is 65:5, Heb 9:28) and Isaiah 59:18. who are the remaining disbelieving unaccepting from those of mosaic covt Israel and enemies of the gospel of his generation addressed as 'Jeshurun' earlier in Deut 32:15.
The carnage continued among both groups of people about 60 yrs later.
Thanks for the topic.
Jesus affirmed this principle in john 3 saying that he had not come to condemn the world, but to save the world, and that he who didn't believe in (accept) him (or the reality of living trancendant father and maker of life) was 'condemned' already. They were under the law of sin/death ( or law of moses) or in ignorance. Did the jews all believe, or did they continue to believe in Moses? Was a 'vengeance' and accounting of ones life prophecied and neccessitated to cease the persecution and oppression from the disbelieving majority in deut 18:15-19 and Acts 3:22-24? as also described in deut 32 and Isaiah 59.
In john 5:24,25 the principle is further supported that he who believed (accepted; Is 61)had already crossed over fro m death to life and would not come into condemnation, wrath, vengeance. (IS 61:3) When,?? the time then was when the dead were hearing the voice of the son of msn and living.
Re: the romans as the enemy. There is a difference in deut 32 and Isaiah 59 between 'the enemy" (Deuteronomy 32:27,42; Isaiah 59:19) also called 'our enemies' in deut 32:29 which are the romans; AND "MINE enemies of Deuteronomy 42:41 (compare Is 65:5, Heb 9:28) and Isaiah 59:18. who are the remaining disbelieving unaccepting from those of mosaic covt Israel and enemies of the gospel of his generation addressed as 'Jeshurun' earlier in Deut 32:15.
The carnage continued among both groups of people about 60 yrs later.
Thanks for the topic.
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endtimesdeut32/70AD
Member
There is a threadin the carm forums in the preterist sectiin of the religious movements forum section.
1000 yrs are as a day and a ' day' is as 1000 yrs. A day also refers to the length of a persons lifespan as can a 'year" Thus 1000 yrs can be a term referring to a persons lifespan.
As you noted, there are several overlapping parrallels including literal '1000' yr time periods. all of which culminate around that time.
See Isaiah 60:22 for a (I believe Messianic) reference to a child becoming 1000.
P.S. I see th forum has some knowledgable minds.
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The reason for their faulty perception here is that in Hebrew thought the messiah would come "once" to the temple and restore the kingdom to Israel.
They didn't understand that The Messiah would come first as the "Lamb" only to return as "The Lion" and take "vengeance" upon His enemies.
That is why He stopped at the phrase - the acceptable year of the Lord
19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord." 20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21 And He began to say to them, "Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing."
It was not time for the vengeance of God. That time will be fulfilled when He returns.
JLB
tim-from-pa
Member
Ya know, King James, I hope you are right. I want to get this all over and done with!
endtimesdeut32/70AD
Member
You'll have to provide suppprt for that perspective.
As far as it not being time for the vengeance of god, what did John say to the scribes and pharisees? Who told you to flee the wrath to come? Jesus said thst the blood of the prophets since the world began would be poured on that generation, meaning within the 40 yr "froward" generation.of Deut 32. Note again the warning of Peter in Acts 3: 22-24 of their needing to give account with their lives for disbelieving at the time of his and their visitation. Did Peter misunderstand?
Numerous other affirmations of the vengeance coming uponthe disbelievers and haters.of the christians from that generation could be and have been cited. The "gap" between Isaiah 61:2,3 is nonexistent other than it being postponed to the end of Jesus' lifespan to allow as many as would, to come to faith, before the vengeance and wrath was poured out.
Your response is remained in disagreement. The previous post is reaffirmed in stating that Isaiah 61 is fulfilled in continuity during the first century.
Thanks again for the topic; but again, this countering of statements attemps no resolution. Restating your dogma and present understandings as fact does nothing to attempt to understand the different viewpoint.
If you seek information, preteristarchive hasa lot of various perspectives.:
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You'll have to provide suppprt for that perspective.
As far as it not being time for the vengeance of god, what did John say to the scribes and pharisees? Who told you to flee the wrath to come? Jesus said thst the blood of the prophets since the world began would be poured on that generation, meaning within the 40 yr "froward" generation.of Deut 32. Note again the warning of Peter in Acts 3: 22-24 of their needing to give account with their lives for disbelieving at the time of his and their visitation. Did Peter misunderstand?
Numerous other affirmations of the vengeance coming uponthe disbelievers and haters.of the christians from that generation could be and have been cited. The "gap" between Isaiah 61:2,3 is nonexistent other than it being postponed to the end of Jesus' lifespan to allow as many as would, to come to faith, before the vengeance and wrath was poured out.
Your response is remained in disagreement. The previous post is reaffirmed in stating that Isaiah 61 is fulfilled in continuity during the first century.
Thanks again for the topic; but again, this countering of statements attemps no resolution. Restating your dogma and present understandings as fact does nothing to attempt to understand the different viewpoint.
If you seek information, preteristarchive hasa lot of various perspectives.:
The Scriptures provide the truth and The Holy Spirit leads and guides the believer into the truth.
2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Thessalonians 5:1-9
He came the first time to give His life for us that we might obtain salvation through the blood He shed on the cross. This is the work of the sacrificial Lamb.
When He returns then He will take vengeance on His enemies, as it is written -
5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 2:5-8
when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Did you get that?
when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven...
Do you understand what that word revealed means?
It means "uncovered", "made known", "manifested", it means He will be seen.
What is He going to do?
... in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God.
That is why He "closed the book" and didn't speak the last part of Isaiah's prophecy because the vengeance part of that word was not fulfilled yet!
As it is written -
12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
The belief and teaching that Jesus has returned and the resurrection is past is HERESY!
JLB
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
Like Paul defined it here for us -
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Claiming this has happened is Heresy!
JLB
As you can see from the above mentioned conversation. I answered your question using scripture. Scripture that Paul taught us in his letter to the Thessalonians.
Again from this scripture we see -
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again...
So also shall we die and raise again when He returns -
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
We will physically die, which means our bodies will die.
Our bodies will be in the ground or dust of the earth.
They will remain there until Jesus returns at the end of the age.
As Jesus taught -
29 Now there were seven brothers. And the first took a wife, and died without children. 30 And the second took her as wife, and he died childless. 31 Then the third took her, and in like manner the seven also; and they left no children, and died. 32 Last of all the woman died also. 33 Therefore, in the resurrection, whose wife does she become? For all seven had her as wife." 34 And Jesus answered and said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage...
nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Again, saying this event whereby Jesus has returned and the resurrection of the dead is past is Heresy!
Here is what Paul wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit about those who teach as a practice heresies -
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
JLB
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