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Obama decries Quran-burning, violent responses

You're comparing apples and oranges, as I said before. The fight for human rights equality was a civil matter not a spiritual matter. MLK fought for the civil rights of Black Americans. He, as a Christian, had already obtained equality in Christ. Yes, there was hatred and violence and a long road of bitter suffering, but (for the most part) the Black community was sinless in this area. They were the ones persecuted. They did not incite violence. They did not provoke those who committed violence against them. Their ashes were turned into beauty. Christ is glorified through the actions of the peaceful promoters of equality.

This pastor has done nothing but bring shame and dishonor on the name of Christ. Christ receives no glory by his event. Muslim hearts all around been hardened towards the Gospel of Christ. Islam is not the enemy. Satan is the enemy. Islam is simply a religion Satan stands behind (or a tool he uses to achieve his purposes). However, if you ever listen to the testimonies from ex-Muslims turned Christians, they have described how the Lord used Islam to bring them to Himself. Islam is simply a tool. The only way to defeat Satan is through Jesus Christ--Love. "Our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers of this earth."

And the statement this pastor is making is about human rights as well. If you look at the links Lewis posted you will clearly understand that this is a human rights issue as well.

"They did not incite violence. They did not provoke those who committed violence against them. "

Well, it depends on how you look at it. They knew if they went out on the streets marching it was going to bring violence. They did not go out on the streets thinking everyone was going to start cheering them on, giving them flowers and saying what great people they were. They knew their marches would "provoke" violence, arrests, and possibly even deaths, but they did it because their message was more important than the violence they knew it would bring. However, the question is did the violence really come from them or from the hard hearts of the people that inflicted the violence? I would say from the hard hearts. The marchers were just making a public exposure of the violence that already existed on a daily basis. This violence was already going on even when they were not marching but your regular folks did not see it. These marches forced middle America to see. The pastor also made a public exposure of what has been there all along. That violence from the muslims was not anything exceptional or new. It is what the koran teaches--violence and death.


"This pastor has done nothing but bring shame and dishonor on the name of Christ. "
I would say the ones bringing shame and dishonor on the name of Christ are those who are asking Christians and Americans to join hands with muslims and who are denying the truth about what islam teaches. This pastor was simply alerting people to what the koran is about. He was trying get people to see the truth. Others are trying to get people to believe the lie that islam is a religion of peace compatible with Christianty and the American culture.

"Muslim hearts all around been hardened towards the Gospel of Christ. "
Many muslim hearts were hardened long before this book burning. It was not burning the book that hardened the hearts. The pastor was saying this book hardens hearts so it should be burned, and he proved his case.

I agree when we witness to a muslim we should show them love, but when showing love to each other we need to speak the truth. Joining in the mantra that islam is peaceful and good and should be treated as such, only does harm to our future generations. The Bible says to flee from that which is evil. The teachings of islam are evil. We need to stay away from it and tell our children to stay away. We have no problem at all saying the teachings of North Korea are evil or bad but somehow we have to sugar coat islam and tell our children it is produces good people just like Christianty. Why do we have double standards and why can`t we be more truthful as a society? As I see it, North Korea is no worse than islam. In fact, North Korea may be a pain in her neighbors` sides, but if I burned her constitution today on TV, I don`t think you would find North Korea gathering up any foreigner they could find and buthering them. So is North Korea better? In that regard I would say yes since their Constitution is like their "holy book". They worship their leader and government.
 
It's amazing how many "Christian" people do not use the Scriptures to back up what they are saying and doing. They make general statements about Islam and burning the Koran (an idol) without knowing what God says about it in His Word. Maybe it is because they dont trust there Bibles, because there Modern Bible's have been altered and words changed. I also say this, i'm not against women interpreting the Bible, but it is usually best not to debate Biblical issues with women, it is best if the woman gets her understanding from a Pastor or her husband. I'm not for women as leaders over men as Paul makes clear in His epistles.

Rot, Foetid rot and dollops of heiferdust!
 
And the statement this pastor is making is about human rights as well. If you look at the links Lewis posted you will clearly understand that this is a human rights issue as well.

"They did not incite violence. They did not provoke those who committed violence against them. "

Well, it depends on how you look at it. They knew if they went out on the streets marching it was going to bring violence. They did not go out on the streets thinking everyone was going to start cheering them on, giving them flowers and saying what great people they were. They knew their marches would "provoke" violence, arrests, and possibly even deaths, but they did it because their message was more important than the violence they knew it would bring. However, the question is did the violence really come from them or from the hard hearts of the people that inflicted the violence? I would say from the hard hearts. The marchers were just making a public exposure of the violence that already existed on a daily basis. This violence was already going on even when they were not marching but your regular folks did not see it. These marches forced middle America to see. The pastor also made a public exposure of what has been there all along. That violence from the muslims was not anything exceptional or new. It is what the koran teaches--violence and death.


"This pastor has done nothing but bring shame and dishonor on the name of Christ. "
I would say the ones bringing shame and dishonor on the name of Christ are those who are asking Christians and Americans to join hands with muslims and who are denying the truth about what islam teaches. This pastor was simply alerting people to what the koran is about. He was trying get people to see the truth. Others are trying to get people to believe the lie that islam is a religion of peace compatible with Christianty and the American culture.

"Muslim hearts all around been hardened towards the Gospel of Christ. "
Many muslim hearts were hardened long before this book burning. It was not burning the book that hardened the hearts. The pastor was saying this book hardens hearts so it should be burned, and he proved his case.

I agree when we witness to a muslim we should show them love, but when showing love to each other we need to speak the truth. Joining in the mantra that islam is peaceful and good and should be treated as such, only does harm to our future generations. The Bible says to flee from that which is evil. The teachings of islam are evil. We need to stay away from it and tell our children to stay away. We have no problem at all saying the teachings of North Korea are evil or bad but somehow we have to sugar coat islam and tell our children it is produces good people just like Christianty. Why do we have double standards and why can`t we be more truthful as a society? As I see it, North Korea is no worse than islam. In fact, North Korea may be a pain in her neighbors` sides, but if I burned her constitution today on TV, I don`t think you would find North Korea gathering up any foreigner they could find and buthering them. So is North Korea better? In that regard I would say yes since their Constitution is like their "holy book". They worship their leader and government.


The Qur'an no more incites violence than does the OT. When you decide to take verses out of their contexts you can prove anything from any book.
 
Nine people were killed because people believe a book that tells them to murder those who disagree with them.
A crime Christianity cannot claim to be free from either.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Britton_%28doctor%29
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gunn_%28doctor%29
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Tiller
Barnett Slepian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Link Between American Evangelicals and Ugandan Gay-Execution Movement Scrutinized -- Daily Intel
Religious Groups Demand Debate on Uganda Anti-Homosexuality Bill | Africa | English

I'm not defending the actions of Muslims as I'm sure you will probably accuse me of I'm saying that based on behavior the two religions are INDISTINGUISHABLE in regards to the blood-lust the followers manifest.

It's only through the two religions intentionally distinguishing themselves calling themselves "Christian" or "Muslim" that there is any difference at all.
 
Who cares if he did not commit an illegal act under the Constitution. So many hearts were turned away from Christ through his words and deeds! We are Christians before we are Americans, this world is not our home, we are foreigners here. We are citizens of the Kingdom of Christ, first and foremost.
Well said.
 
Exactly how dose burning a book prove 'A' hates 'B'?
Fire is the ultimate symbol of mindless violence. It is in the very nature of fire to utterly destroy - to mercilessly reduce something to smoke and ashes. So it is a very different thing to burn a Koran than to toss one in the trash can.

Furthermore, let there be no mistake - a sacred text, like a flag, is a symbol denoting the people who order their lives around its precepts. So when you burn a sacred text, you are effectively saying that the world will be better off without the very people that the text symbolizes.

Of course, those who support this Koran-burning are going to say otherwise - that it is an entirely legitimate expression of free speech. And there is the problem - one cannot prove that this is not the case, even though it is manifestly clear what is really going on. What is really going on is that a carefully coded message of hate is being dressed up in the seemingly legitimate apparel of a legitimate act of 'free speech'.

This is a little like the "Barak Hussein Obama" thing. Those who use this phrase can say "that's simply his real name", when they know full well what is going - they are trying to connect Mr. Obama to a perceived shadowy world of Islamic militancy.
 
Fire is the ultimate symbol of mindless violence. It is in the very nature of fire to utterly destroy - to mercilessly reduce something to smoke and ashes. So it is a very different thing to burn a Koran than to toss one in the trash can.

Furthermore, let there be no mistake - a sacred text, like a flag, is a symbol denoting the people who order their lives around its precepts. So when you burn a sacred text, you are effectively saying that the world will be better off without the very people that the text symbolizes.

Of course, those who support this Koran-burning are going to say otherwise - that it is an entirely legitimate expression of free speech. And there is the problem - one cannot prove that this is not the case, even though it is manifestly clear what is really going on. What is really going on is that a carefully coded message of hate is being dressed up in the seemingly legitimate apparel of a legitimate act of 'free speech'.

This is a little like the "Barak Hussein Obama" thing. Those who use this phrase can say "that's simply his real name", when they know full well what is going - they are trying to connect Mr. Obama to a perceived shadowy world of Islamic militancy.
As you say it does not and and cannot prove the 'A' hates 'B'. So what if it could?

Dave claimed to hate those who hate the Lord, seems lots of folks around here think they are better than Dave. But thats another thing.

Isnt it more realistic, to say this guy hates the koran ?

That certainly requires far less conjecture.





'
 
Who cares if he did not commit an illegal act under the Constitution. So many hearts were turned away from Christ through his words and deeds! We are Christians before we are Americans, this world is not our home, we are foreigners here. We are citizens of the Kingdom of Christ, first and foremost.

Well said.


How many 'hearts were turned away from Christ' ?

How do you know this?

Personally I think' more hearts are turned away from Christ ' when any and every excuse is made for the likes of those murderers.
 
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People are not turned away from Christ because someone burns a Koran, that is silly talk. Did Jesus "kiss up" to the false teachers of His time so as not to turn them away from God? Jesus called them snakes and enraged them to the point that they wanted to murder Him. As christians we are to TELL THE TRUTH and then let happen whatever will happen. The truth is that the man who burned the Koran did not CAUSE nine people to be killed anymore than you leaving your keys in your car would cause a thief to steal your car. I do not agree with what the man did, however his actions brought something to the surface, the West is acting like cowards in the face of Eastern religious fanatics that want to conquer us, not good! Why should we apologize for an American burning a book that HE OWNED simply because it was a copy of their religion when they disrespect every religion on earth by trying to kill and conquer all who are not Muslim? The West is acting like a bunch of cowards.
 
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Comments violating ToS edited out of post

People are not turned away from Christ because someone burns a Koran, that is silly talk. Did Jesus "kiss up" to the false teachers of His time so as not to turn them away from God? Jesus called them snakes and enraged them to the point that they wanted to murder Him. As christians we are to TELL THE TRUTH and then let happen whatever will happen. The truth is that the man who burned the Koran did not CAUSE nine people to be killed anymore than you leaving your keys in your car would cause a thief to steal your car. I do not agree with what the man did, however his actions brought something to the surface, the West is acting like cowards in the face of Eastern religious fanatics that want to conquer us, not good! Why should we apologize for an American burning a book that HE OWNED simply because it was a copy of their religion when they disrespect every religion on earth by trying to kill and conquer all who are not Muslim? The West is acting like a bunch of cowards.

If your remarks or actions by you enable a murder to take place you are often considered an accessory after the fact. What this man did could have no GOOD consequences and yet he went ahead and did it anyway. At the very least he is an idiot, at the most an accessory to murder.
 
If your remarks or actions by you enable a murder to take place you are often considered an accessory after the fact. What this man did could have no GOOD consequences and yet he went ahead and did it anyway. At the very least he is an idiot, at the most an accessory to murder.
Now you're showing desperation kiwi.
 
perhaps i should i have burned the quran when i was in country, keep in mind we have several bases in kabul that the media seldom covers.
 
I just find it interesting how much emotionally charged religious factions spread the seed of violence in the world whether directly or indirectly.
 
I support truth. I have spent over 30 years of my life studying Islam and it's offshoot groups. I actually know what I am talking about.

Since you say you are a brother in Christ, I am disappointed in your answer. Could it be you have spent more time focusing on islam than Christ and it is time to get back to your roots and first love? 30 years is a long time to focus on another god. Could it be after 30 years you have become sympathetic or even brainwashed with their cause?

I also believe in truth, and the truth is muslims do persecute Christians. And as a Christian I must place my loyalty to my brothers and sisters in Christ above worshippers of other gods. If someone is persecuting my brother or sister, that is a part of my body and the body of Christ. Therefore, I cannot sympathize with or support their beliefs. I can sympathize and support them as fellow humans, but not their beliefs. Once one starts persecuting my brothers and sisters in the name of another god, that is where a line is drawn for me, and I think it should be a line drawn by all Christians. We`ve got to get our loyalties and priorities straight. Are we for the kingdom of God or political correctness? If we are truly to be " a good soldier of Jesus Christ" as 2 Tim. 2:3 states then a soldier must be fiercely loyal. A good solider does not waver between both sides. He fights for one side only. You say you want the truth, then it is before you. The Bible is all you need. We don`t even have to read the koran to see its fruit. Wherever you find muslims in the world, you find horrific violence in the name of islam. Connect the dots. Violence and islam go hand in hand.

As a sister to a brother, I strongly suggest you choose sides and stop meddling in your studies of islam. It`s a waste of time. Use that time to focus on the One, True and Living God!
 
Since you say you are a brother in Christ, I am disappointed in your answer. Could it be you have spent more time focusing on islam than Christ and it is time to get back to your roots and first love? 30 years is a long time to focus on another god. Could it be after 30 years you have become sympathetic or even brainwashed with their cause?

I also believe in truth, and the truth is muslims do persecute Christians. And as a Christian I must place my loyalty to my brothers and sisters in Christ above worshippers of other gods. If someone is persecuting my brother or sister, that is a part of my body and the body of Christ. Therefore, I cannot sympathize with or support their beliefs. I can sympathize and support them as fellow humans, but not their beliefs. Once one starts persecuting my brothers and sisters in the name of another god, that is where a line is drawn for me, and I think it should be a line drawn by all Christians. We`ve got to get our loyalties and priorities straight. Are we for the kingdom of God or political correctness? If we are truly to be " a good soldier of Jesus Christ" as 2 Tim. 2:3 states then a soldier must be fiercely loyal. A good solider does not waver between both sides. He fights for one side only. You say you want the truth, then it is before you. The Bible is all you need. We don`t even have to read the koran to see its fruit. Wherever you find muslims in the world, you find horrific violence in the name of islam. Connect the dots. Violence and islam go hand in hand.

As a sister to a brother, I strongly suggest you choose sides and stop meddling in your studies of islam. It`s a waste of time. Use that time to focus on the One, True and Living God!
What do you mean by "a line drawn?" What do you mean by being "a good soldier" and "fights for one side?"

Mat 5:11 "Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.

Mat 5:40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.

Luk 6:29 To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either.

Joh 15:20 Remember the word that I said to you: 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours.

Rom 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them.

(All from the ESV.)

And 2 Tim 2:3, in context: 2Ti 2:3 Share in suffering as a good soldier of Christ Jesus.
 
As an American and a person of the Western part of the world it is embarrassing to see a general in our armed forces apologizing to the Muslim world because one of our citizens burned HIS COPY of their religious book while the Muslim world disrespects every religion in the world and seeks to conquer all. I am also embarrassed by those who call themselves christians and who come to the defense of a religion that will kill a woman because she is raped and also is the major cause of many of the present wars in the world. Whether or not the man who burned his book did wrong is a small deal, defending a move of satan to take freedom from the world is a very big deal. Anytime you find yourself defending a move of satan, for whatever the cause, you need to reexamine whether or not you are really on the side of God, you cannot serve two masters, is it Islam or Christ?
 
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