Bible Study Question: Did Jesus Christ Have Two Natures?

[netchaplain]

It's inside influence. We don't "see" the spirit of disobedience, but it IS a spirit and it IS connected, directly, to Satan, the prince of the power of the air:

Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

There is no avoiding the connection, that "sin is of the devil."

The prince of the power of the air is Satan, who is the spirit that works (exacerbates) in those who are unregenerate. He cannot work what he desires in those who are Christ's, only in the natural man.

Satan sinned first in the angelic realm, but Adam and Eve were first in the human realm!

 

[netchaplain]

Jesus was human in every physical aspect except in the mind and in the human nature. Nowhere do we read in Scripture that Jesus had man's human nature, but it is said that He has His own divine nature.

 

[Chopper]

Well well, you'll never guess that I think I've changed my mind on the two natures of Jesus the Son of God. I was studying....
Philippians 2:5 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."


My favorite Hebrew & Greek Theologian, Professor Dr. Kenneth Wuest translates these four verses. In short, he says, "The translation so far could read, "emptied Himself, having taken the form of a bondslave." From what I understand from reading Dr. Wuest, Jesus gave up SOME Deity (V.6 form of God) in order to be made in the likeness of men or man.

I became convinced because of Dr. Wuest's explanation of the whole process of Jesus leaving the Godhead and becoming a man thru the birth of Mary. He said this, of which I liked...."He was not a man but God, although He had assumed human nature yet without its sin." Meaning that Jesus was not totally man, He was the God/Man.

With all Dr. Wuest's Greek to English explanation, I got lost very quickly. Thankfully, he gives a translation at the end of each verse. Here is what he says about verse 6....Translation: Who has always been and at present continues to subsist in that mode of being in which He gives outward expression of His essential nature, that of Deity, and who did not after weighing the facts, consider it a treasure to be clutched and retained at all hazards, to be equal with Deity (in the expression of the divine essence);

Here is what Dr. Wuest says about verse 7....Translation: But emptied Himself, having taken the outward expression of a bondslave, which expression came from and was truly representative of His nature, entering into, a new state of existence, that of mankind.

So, as it looks right now, I'm leaning toward the Son of God having two natures, Deity & human. (human without sin)

 

[chessman]

I'm leaning toward the Son of God having two natures, Deity & human. (human without sin)

I get the shivers thinking about all The Son of God emptied Himself of to become The Son of Man. Now that's love!

 

[netchaplain]

Well well, you'll never guess that I think I've changed my mind on the two natures of Jesus the Son of God. I was studying....
Philippians 2:5 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

One way too put it is that Jesus was a spirit being in heaven as the Word and Son of God and then His spirit being took on a physical body. The spirit being of Jesus was never created like angels and mankind, so that alone starts a trail of a different kind altogether, IMO.

Jesus was of the same essence as the Father in His spirit being (for angels and man are also spirit beings, but man with a body) before and after His earthly life. When the Word became flesh it isn't said that He was no longer the Word, He did not change in His spirit, He was still and always will be the Word of God and Son of God regardless of where He is or what He does. I believe it's still a matter of understanding a definition of the word "nature."

The Word of God (Jesus, Son) cannot change in His essence--being God, for God does not change!

I had to edit this in by Gill: "Or "nevertheless emptied himself"; not of that fullness of grace which was laid up in him from everlasting, for with this he appeared when he was made flesh, and dwelt among men; nor of the perfections of his divine nature, which were not in the least diminished by his assumption of human nature, for all the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in him bodily; though he took that which he had not before, he lost nothing of what he had; the glory of his divine nature was covered, and out of sight; and though some rays and beams of it broke out through his works and miracles."

 

[JLB]

who is the spirit that works (exacerbates) in those who are unregenerate.

The spirit of death.



JLB

 

[netchaplain]

The spirit of death.

Hi JLB - God's blessings to you! I believe I know what you mean, but death is not a spirit but a power. You could say the spirit (Satan) which "had the power of death" (Heb 2:14).

 

[Douglas Summers]

From what I understand from reading Dr. Wuest, Jesus gave up SOME Deity (V.6 form of God) in order to be made in the likeness of men or man.

Hi Chopper, not deity did he give up (Emmanuel), But Judgement (for the time being).(Matt. 5:17-18). Two advents. First as a servant.(Matt. 20:28) (John 3:16-21). Second Advent, With judgment. (2 Pet. 3:1-14) (Rev. 14:6-7).

As The Christ, He received human worship (Matt. 14:33; 28:9; ). He forgave sin (Mark 2:5-7) (Luke 7:48-50). The Christ was the God of the OT in human flesh. In order to save mankind from the penalty of the Law, there had to be a human body prepared for sacrifice for a Holy God to justify and satisfy the law. If Christ so chose to, He could have bring Himself off of the cross if it was His desire. (Heb. 10:1-18)

 

[Sparkey]

People may ask, "What are the nine Gifts of the Spirit?"

You're familiar with the Gifts of the Holy Spirit as taught by the Holy Spirit thru the Apostle Paul to Gentiles? Yes? Of course you are. Paul likes making lists as do I, and I like analysis, as does Paul. So here's a collaborative order to a list that you may not have seen quite this way before. I'll tell you why I find this useful later but for now notice how GotHS (Gifts of the Holy Spirit) may be grouped:

The 'Nine Manifestation Gifts' may be found listed for us in I Corinthians 12:7–11 [ESV]:

The 3 listed 'Manifestations of Revelation'

• Word of wisdom.
• Word of knowledge.
• Prophecy

The 3 listed 'Manifestations of Power'

• Faith.
• Gifts of healing.
• Working of miracles

The 3 listed 'Manifestations of Utterance'

• Discerning of spirits.
• Divers kinds of tongues
• The Interpretation of tongues

I like listing them in that order, because for me, it's a memory trick. It helps me remember them better when they are categorized well. The reason that I suggest committing the 9 Manifestation Gifts to memory is to facilitate study. We are commanded to rightly divide the word of truth. This only happens when we are familiar enough to have the word written on our hearts by the Spirit of God. It's a process. What I'm trying to suggest for your endevour and for our study here, Chopper, is that you consider the man, The Christ, the Anointed One, the Lover of our Souls, as a man who is anointed by the Holy Spirit - as seen and testified to by the greatest OT prophet himself, The Baptist, John. Look at The Holy One thru that lens. Try to see the gifts of the HS as they operate through Him. It's a worthy exercise. More on that later. For now, simply recall that John actually saw the Spirit of God descending on Him like a dove. It was a very revealing revelation. John practically fell on his face for that one. Can you imagine?

But consider the man that John saw. Think about him being filled utterly and without measure. Consider the wealth of gifts that Jesus had. We know of the 9 that Paul listed for us and that's very helpful as a study guide. Just to get you started, "What was his first miracle?" Water into wine? Okay, that one is a given. He operated a Manifestation of Power, the working of miracles. But just before the Crucifixion we find him cursing a tree. What was that? I believe Jesus used the gift of prophesy there . That Manifestation of Revelation just bubbled up outta him. He spoke forth the Word of God under unction. But going back to the start of his ministry, what happened when he saw a disciple under a fig tree? Huh? Could that have been a manifestation of Word of Knowledge, an Utterance gift? Seems right to me. Gifts of Healing? You bet'cha. Interesting that when Paul speaks to the Gentiles about this the word "gift" is plural. There are gifts of healing. But I digress.

So now, what have we been doing or trying to do? Nothing except being diligent to search out Spirituals per Paul's instruction. I'm showing you a student's (disciple) learning device that I've tested and found true. It helps me reconcile the 'two natures' although I do NOT like that term; imprecise mixture of modern psychological terms with Biblical terminology and then what? Iron mixed with clay? Shall we cross-index the entire Physician Desk Reference to King James as well as the various Study References? Heaven forbid .

Paul told us to "Seek Spirituals," that is, to zealously run them down as if in a veritable race.

Be-chasing The Love. Be-Boiling yet The Spirituals (pneumatika G4152). Rather Yet that ye-may-be-Before-Averring. Sound Greek to you? It's from an Interlinear. Here it is again (slightly different): be ye pursuing ! be ye being-zealous ! for the-spiritual things | ye-may-be-prophesying

We are told to chase love down as if we are in a veritable race. We are the greyhound bounding after that Love-wabbit! We are then told to "boil-over" for Spiritual gifts. To be zealous with a hot and burning (earnest) desire. But, for the sake of the Body of Christ, rather that we Prophecy. I'm put in mind of the OT "Valley of Bones" and what we were told to do. We are the bones, we are also the prophet (if you are one given to hear this). We are to prophecy - to speak forth the Word of God which is able to save our souls and transform from glory to Glory.

<It is by my Spirit>, saith the LORD and THIS is just a part our Way-provided...
as taught to and shared by Sparrow. Jesus IS The Way. He is the Word and He is the Provided.​

 

[jaybird]

Mark 9 17-19
17 And someone from the crowd answered him, “Teacher, I brought my son to you, for he has a spirit that makes him mute. 18 And whenever it seizes him, it throws him down, and he foams and grinds his teeth and becomes rigid. So I asked your disciples to cast it out, and they were not able.” 19 And he answered them, “O faithless generation, how long am I to be with you? How long am I to bear with you?

IMO Jesus was disappointed as if He was expecting a different result, the disciples to heal the boy with their faith in the Most High, the way Jesus did works.

 

[Sparkey]

as if He was expecting a different result

Yes, I believe you're correct there. He hopes the best for us. Jesus perfectly showed us the Father who IS love. We are even told that he didn't speak his own words but rather spoke the Word his heavenly Father gave him.

Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things...

 

[Chopper]

Hi Chopper, not deity did he give up (Emmanuel), But Judgement (for the time being).(Matt. 5:17-18). Two advents. First as a servant.(Matt. 20:28) (John 3:16-21). Second Advent, With judgment. (2 Pet. 3:1-14) (Rev. 14:6-7).

As The Christ, He received human worship (Matt. 14:33; 28:9; ). He forgave sin (Mark 2:5-7) (Luke 7:48-50). The Christ was the God of the OT in human flesh. In order to save mankind from the penalty of the Law, there had to be a human body prepared for sacrifice for a Holy God to justify and satisfy the law. If Christ so chose to, He could have bring Himself off of the cross if it was His desire. (Heb. 10:1-18)

Thank you Douglas for your reply. You are right, in that Deity was still in our Savior. Some of what Deity was held by Jesus before His incarnation, He gave up to become a servant. One part of that was His knowledge of when He would come back. Jesus became a Servant to His Father, being obedient to Him even though He was equal in the Godhead.

Jesus indeed could have called Angels to rescue Him from the cross but He submitted to the Father's will. Praise His Name that He continued to the finish. "It is finished" He said.

 

[smaller]

Not in his paternal line.
In the man Adam all have sinned, not in the woman Eve all have sinned.

The quite unavoidable conclusion is that the body of Jesus was an organic compilation of both Adam and Eve, exceptionally human. His Body Seed was carried in Eve, certainly. She is a Word picture of the 'inner man.' And Jesus, therein, carried, through her and the lineage of Israel. Gen. 3:15

Jesus was called the Son of Mankind because He was born the seed of the woman. Jesus was the Only Begotten Son of God. He was not a son of the man, Adam. Jesus did not have two fathers. He was the son of a woman and God. There is only room for one mother and one father.

Unfortunately for the sight above, Eve had progeny from only Adam, and that progeny eventually became, in part, the people called Israel, from which Jesus' Body came through. There really isn't any logical or reasonable way to remove Adam from the equation of Mary.

Gen 3:15 and enmity I put between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; he doth bruise thee--the head, and thou dost bruise him--the heel.'

Hey! I just quoted that too! I think we see similar. I just can't logically remove Adam from Luke 3:38, wherein is a very important footnote, that Adam was the son of God. I see no reason whatsoever to deride Adam, seeing that basis.

 

[smaller]

The prince of the power of the air is Satan, who is the spirit that works (exacerbates) in those who are unregenerate. He cannot work what he desires in those who are Christ's, only in the natural man.

Oh, I wouldn't be too sure about that: 2 Cor. 12:7 shows otherwise. So does 1 John 3:8. Blaming and accusing the natural man for the working of sin, which is of the devil, is actually one of the devil's side line occupations.

Satan sinned first in the angelic realm, but Adam and Eve were first in the human realm!

Satan was a murderer from the beginning, presumably his beginning. John 8:44. There is a fairy tale notion in freewill land that Satan was once a Holy angel, who went south with some bad decisions. But that is only a tale. It doesn't exist as a scriptural fact. John 8:44 are the facts about Satan, from Jesus.

As this all relates to "human nature" the "human nature" is NOT ALONE. There is mankind and there is the god of this world, also in their minds.

And, if we are "tempted" in mind the math is pretty clear to us about the "location" of Satan as well. We are just a little dull in that regard.

Jesus didn't have that same problem, that we all do, presumably because He Is God.

It is also interesting to NOTE that it was God who bound everyone to disobedience to start with, precisely for a Divine Reason:

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

There is the picture of the 'human nature.' It's everyone/the person and the disobedience we are all bound to that is NOT US. Romans 7:17-21, Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2, Eph. 6:11-12, 1 John 3:8, etc.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Here is my thinking on a hypostatic union. When Christ was on His way to the cross, if a hypostatic union was present in Jesus, He wouldn't have gone to the cross because nothing human (nature) would be allowed to propitiate for our sins.

hmmm, I don't really know what you are saying. But if you are saying that Jesus wasn't fully human and fully divine on the cross, I'd disagree. Jesus has two natures. One fully human and one fully divine. Jesus is still fully human and fully divine even now. He's our man in heaven. http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/jesus-is-still-human

Hebrews 1: 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

Jesus died as a man. God cannot die. But there was never a moment where Jesus the man wasn't fully God nor was there a time (after being conceived) that Jesus as God wasn't (and still is) fully man. It's a mystery how Jesus can be fully human and divine but then we can't know everything as God is beyond our comprehension in so may way. Yet, He was and is fully both. Even on the cross.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Where did you get that Jesus wasn't human? Jesus had a human body thru Mary giving birth to Him. The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary and Jesus was conceived. We have the Holy Spirit, we have Jesus with a divine nature, with ONLY a human body, not a human nature. I feel that to say that Christ Jesus, the Son of God, had a human nature is to contaminate His holiness. Again, is there clear biblical proof of a human nature?

If Jesus was fully human he had a human nature. And the Bible says He was fully human. Your position on this was deemed by the early church as a heresy. Jesus had to be fully human and fully God to offer himself as the perfect sacrifice for sin. Hebrews make this clear.

 

[Papa Zoom]

For Edward and others, this is my position on whether or not Jesus had two natures.

Colossians 2:9 "For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily." And Colossians 1:19 "For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell." When Jesus was FULL of deity and FULL of God, there is no room for anything human other than a body. Lets look at Christ's body....Colossians 1:22 "He has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him." And Hebrews 10:5 "Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, "Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me." And Hebrews 10:10 "And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

1. Colossians 2:9 There simply is no room for a human nature in Christ Jesus since He is FULL of deity.
2. Colossians 1:19 Again, fullness is fullness!
3. Colossians 1:22 "We are reconciled thru His body of flesh." which He obtained thru the Spirit thru Mary. Please note that there is no mention of a human nature it is solely His body of flesh!

This next verse may possibly be my most important qualifying statement of Scripture against a human nature in Christ Jesus. As I was considering my position, I believe that the Spirit of Christ Jesus gave me this next verse.
4. Hebrews 10:5 "A body have you prepared for me." I don't see a human nature here.
5. Hebrews 10:10 Offering of His Body, no human nature here.

Case closed.

Jesus had a complete human nature. That's what made him human. He was not just a body. That's just a piece of meat. If Jesus wasn't fully human, he couldn't accomplish what he did on the cross. To be fully human must mean he had a human nature. Here's some background. http://www.ligonier.org/blog/does-jesus-have-two-natures-or-one/

 

[Papa Zoom]

I understand Deb. My whole argument hinges on just what is a human nature? From my understanding, you can't have a human nature that is free from sin. A human nature comes from Adam to us, and it is sinful. Therefore, a human nature is a Human sin nature and Jesus did not have a sinful nature.

Someone will have to explain to me, with Scripture, how it was that Jesus was able to have a human nature without being tainted by sin.

you most certainly can have a human nature that is free from sin because that is exactly what Jesus possessed and that fact is why he could be the perfect sacrifice for sin. He didn't die as God as God cannot die. He died as man. He was the perfect man. Fully man which includes our human nature but without sin.

What you seem to be suggesting is that Jesus was incapable of sinning. If so, how could he then even be tempted? Jesus was not just a body, he was (and is) one person, two natures.

 

[Edward]

Well well, you'll never guess that I think I've changed my mind on the two natures of Jesus the Son of God. I was studying....
Philippians 2:5 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."


My favorite Hebrew & Greek Theologian, Professor Dr. Kenneth Wuest translates these four verses. In short, he says, "The translation so far could read, "emptied Himself, having taken the form of a bondslave." From what I understand from reading Dr. Wuest, Jesus gave up SOME Deity (V.6 form of God) in order to be made in the likeness of men or man.

I became convinced because of Dr. Wuest's explanation of the whole process of Jesus leaving the Godhead and becoming a man thru the birth of Mary. He said this, of which I liked...."He was not a man but God, although He had assumed human nature yet without its sin." Meaning that Jesus was not totally man, He was the God/Man.

With all Dr. Wuest's Greek to English explanation, I got lost very quickly. Thankfully, he gives a translation at the end of each verse. Here is what he says about verse 6....Translation: Who has always been and at present continues to subsist in that mode of being in which He gives outward expression of His essential nature, that of Deity, and who did not after weighing the facts, consider it a treasure to be clutched and retained at all hazards, to be equal with Deity (in the expression of the divine essence);

Here is what Dr. Wuest says about verse 7....Translation: But emptied Himself, having taken the outward expression of a bondslave, which expression came from and was truly representative of His nature, entering into, a new state of existence, that of mankind.

So, as it looks right now, I'm leaning toward the Son of God having two natures, Deity & human. (human without sin)

I think you're right, Brother. However, I'm sure Jesus had his memory intact. He knew He was God before being born here through Mary. I'm sure that helped His morale while in the flesh!

 

[smaller]

I think you're right, Brother. However, I'm sure Jesus had his memory intact. He knew He was God before being born here through Mary. I'm sure that helped His morale while in the flesh!

One of the most humorous short statements in the Bible:

Luke 24:
18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
19 And he said unto them, What things?

Really Jesus? I mean they just crucified Him, He's now resurrected and plays a what things card? That is just an incredible statement. Did He forget or what?

What things?