The difference between the rapture and the second coming

[digging]

Yes in many places it is but we do have the greatest teacher who used many, many illustration so it is important to also try to see other lessons as well.
Digging

 

[Deborah13]

and take note.

http://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/h/hanegraaff-hank.html

what he does say seems to have a lot of truth.



im not saying all that espouse this are racists. but he has a point. if isreal is for the Hebrews only then well wouldn't god be the one and only that should be the one to restore us to the land not the un? aslo well while I agree that isreal has a right to exist because its our land, but, it was for the jews in the land to make the choice. not the Christians. I don't support it because im a Christian at all. I suppor them because im a jew. I know the sad facts of why isreal must be. only a jew would protect a jew.

I've read up on the origins of the Zionist movement some. What I read said that the Jews began the Zionist movement and appealed to Briton for help. That's what it said in the Aleppo Codex as well. The author interviewed a couple people who were older children in 1946-48 or so that lived in Aleppo. But the Aleppo Jews did not want to return to Israel, most of them did not return when they escaped Syria, most went to North and South America.

 

[Deborah13]

Yes,I have studied all of the escatology views.Pre,post,mid,no trib.And the only one that my heart settled on was pre-trib.It just seemed the most logical with our God's love,grace and mercy.

It is because of God's love, grace, mercy, and mostly because of His justice, that I don't believe He is going to punish the Jews Again for the same crime.

 

[jasoncran]

If you say that then you are not taking the Bible literal.I take the Bible literal when ever possible.

actually you don't.

if you are futurist one doesn't take this literally

those who heard these words literally were standing there.

there shall be some of you standing here that shall not see death until all these things come to pass.

 

[jasoncran]

I've read up on the origins of the Zionist movement some. What I read said that the Jews began the Zionist movement and appealed to Briton for help. That's what it said in the Aleppo Codex as well. The author interviewed a couple people who were older children in 1946-48 or so that lived in Aleppo. But the Aleppo Jews did not want to return to Israel, most of them did not return when they escaped Syria, most went to North and South America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleppo_Codex

that said that? its a type of the tanach. ramban validated that for use.

post the links. what im referring to that we support isreal and sometimes forget that god isn't a respecter of persons. he died for us all. to say that the jew has his lands is harder to support then the futurists admit, im talking about the modern return being in prophecy. god removed isreal from the focus and focus on the world now. it makes no sense to go back from the world to isreal. when if the rapture started today more jews in America would repent then any in the actuall land of isreal. that's a problem for a futurist. also one cant negate the idea that a jew can be an atheist. a gentile who becomes a jew, a jew mix(I am of this).

 

[Deborah13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleppo_Codex

that said that? its a type of the tanach. ramban validated that for use.

post the links. what im referring to that we support isreal and sometimes forget that god isn't a respecter of persons. he died for us all. to say that the jew has his lands is harder to support then the futurists admit, im talking about the modern return being in prophecy. god removed isreal from the focus and focus on the world now. it makes no sense to go back from the world to isreal. when if the rapture started today more jews in America would repent then any in the actuall land of isreal. that's a problem for a futurist. also one cant negate the idea that a jew can be an atheist. a gentile who becomes a jew, a jew mix(I am of this).

Sorry Jason, I had mentioned a couple of months ago that I was reading the book by Matti Friedman.
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-aleppo-codex-matti-friedman/1110792561?ean=9781616202781

When I said The Aleppo Codex, I was talking about this nonfiction book. The author bases a lot of his info. on interviews as well as documents. It is in this book from interviews with people who were alive in 1948. How they and the copy of the Hebrew texts of the scriptures called the Aleppo Codex (which you reference in your post with the wiki link) escaped from Syria during that time when Israel was given statehood.
Anyway, I posted that in support of your statement about so many Jews living in the US.
Around 1948, many Arab countries began persecuting the Jews who had peacefully lived among them for hundreds of years and some them just wanted them gone. Rather than going to Israel they chose the Americas.
In the case of the Aleppo Jews, they said they didn't want to live in the 'socialist' State of Israel because it was not a good place to be a successful businessman. They found NY city and Brazil to be much more in favor of business.
The author, being a Jew himself, I thought was honest about the history as it related to the Codex itself and the Jews of Aleppo.

 

[jasoncran]

Sorry Jason, I had mentioned a couple of months ago that I was reading the book by Matti Friedman.
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-aleppo-codex-matti-friedman/1110792561?ean=9781616202781

When I said The Aleppo Codex, I was talking about this nonfiction book. The author bases a lot of his info. on interviews as well as documents. It is in this book from interviews with people who were alive in 1948. How they and the copy of the Hebrew texts of the scriptures called the Aleppo Codex (which you reference in your post with the wiki link) escaped from Syria during that time when Israel was given statehood.
Anyway, I posted that in support of your statement about so many Jews living in the US.
Around 1948, many Arab countries began persecuting the Jews who had peacefully lived among them for hundreds of years and some them just wanted them gone. Rather than going to Israel they chose the Americas.
In the case of the Aleppo Jews, they said they didn't want to live in the 'socialist' State of Israel because it was not a good place to be a successful businessman. They found NY city and Brazil to be much more in favor of business.
The author, being a Jew himself, I thought was honest about the history as it related to the Codex itself and the Jews of Aleppo.

ok.

 

[jasoncran]

modern day isreal is very socialist, which I don't get that the Christian left hates that and says we ought to send money to the state of isreal whom does the same thing we often decry in the us. to wit, abortion, socialized medicine and civil unions.

 

[reba]

Little off topic?

The difference between the rapture and the second coming

 

[Gary]

The difference between the rapture and the second coming

About the blink of an eye.

 

[TheCurseoftheRodain]

Ok. Which point that I made do you not agree with?

The bible teaches that all are Resurrected/Raptured at the same time. At His Coming.

The bible teaches that Jesus comes once.

Did you know that?

JLB

Actually Jesus comes TWICE - because the first time He returns to take the Church in the "catching away" or Rapture, He does NOT touch His foot to the Earth; when He returns later He sets foot on the Earth.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 and Romans 5:9 both say WE (the Believers) have not been appointed to WRATH, but rather that we are saved FROM WRATH.
Revelation 6 says the Day of the Lord's WRATH has come, and then the tribulation happens (which God calls His Wrath). BUT BEFORE THIS, the Wedding Supper of the Lamb has already begun. Who will be at the Wedding Supper of the Lamb? ALL Believers! Hooray!

 

[Kathi]

Actually Jesus comes TWICE - because the first time He returns to take the Church in the "catching away" or Rapture, He does NOT touch His foot to the Earth; when He returns later He sets foot on the Earth.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 and Romans 5:9 both say WE (the Believers) have not been appointed to WRATH, but rather that we are saved FROM WRATH.
Revelation 6 says the Day of the Lord's WRATH has come, and then the tribulation happens (which God calls His Wrath). BUT BEFORE THIS, the Wedding Supper of the Lamb has already begun. Who will be at the Wedding Supper of the Lamb? ALL Believers! Hooray!

Yes,that is what I believe That will be some feast won't it? Won't Jesus Christ be serving us at that feast?

 

[TheCurseoftheRodain]

I believe He most certainly will be! It's just like Him! If He came to serve us and washed those disciples' feet, in those days, and went to endure the road to and the cross itself, what won't He serve us in? ;)
There will probably be myriad angels serving us as well, for Hebrews 1:14 - they are the ministering spirits sent forth to minister to us, the heirs of salvation! (and in conjunction with Psalm 103:20-21 (even though all these verses also apply down here now - for after all, 1 John 4:17 - does Jesus have angels serving Him now? Then so do we!)) Hallelujah!

 

[TheCurseoftheRodain]

A great end times resource, if anyone is interested, can be found on Kenneth Copeland's website and if you click media at the top and then type in the search field, "Billye Brim" and you will find a host of Revelation explanation through the Scriptures - by far the best teaching, all 100% Scripturally accurate - it's Billye Brim and Gloria Copeland teaching all about the book of Revelation from start to finish. Start watching from the beginning, "Living In The End Of Days" back in June of 2012. It will take a while to watch 'em all, but you'll be blessed!

 

[Kathi]

I believe He most certainly will be! It's just like Him! If He came to serve us and washed those disciples' feet, in those days, and went to endure the road to and the cross itself, what won't He serve us in? ;)
There will probably be myriad angels serving us as well, for Hebrews 1:14 - they are the ministering spirits sent forth to minister to us, the heirs of salvation! (and in conjunction with Psalm 103:20-21 (even though all these verses also apply down here now - for after all, 1 John 4:17 - does Jesus have angels serving Him now? Then so do we!)) Hallelujah!

I have read this once but I do not remember where.It could have been a reference from the Bible.It is when we are raptured God will have an angel with us to make sure that we get to Jesus safely because Jesus knows that this will not be a happy moment for satan and he would like to complicate the whole thing.

 

[TheCurseoftheRodain]

I never heard about that - was this a commentary in a Bible edition or ....? I know we each have at least 1 angel according to Jesus' words. Many times other Believers have seen other Believers' angel, I have heard testimonies of this. It is more likely that we have dozens and dozens of angels working (or would like to be working, if we'll speak the Word of God and give them something to do (Psalm 103:20-21) for us. There is a scene in Revelation where if you multiply out the number of angels that John sees at the Throne it's either 20 trillion angels or 200 trillion angels. If you figure that there are maximum about 4-5 billion Believers right now, that's about 400 angels working for each new Covenant Believer at the least.
In the old Covenant, if you look at the scene where (was it Elijah or Elisha?) the land around the prophet of God has tons of flaming chariots and angels all around. That's just for 1 Covenant dude. They were just waiting for his words, the words of God - the authorization for him to give them commands is in Psalm 103:20-21. Then look at what gives God pleasure (He says Psalm 34:27 that our prosperity is His pleasure, and that our faith in Him, in His Word is what gives Him pleasure - those 2 things cover a lot of ground!).

 

[Kathi]

That is very interesting.Although we have to be careful not to worship the angels like many have.In the Bible the angels have said not to worship them.We will judge the angels in heaven with Jesus.I read a book by Billy Graham.He tells of some missionaries who had seen a couple of very very tall figures that were glowing.The house of one of the missionaries was on fire and the angels were guarding this house.He said this was a true story.

 

[TheCurseoftheRodain]

I believe I saw one of my angels (if there are more than one of course) one time right before going to sleep. But you're right, we absolutely don't worship them or have regard for them, or have conversations with them or anything - those that do that are worshipping a lie - we pray only to God the Father in Jesus' name. Rather just like Romans 5 where it is written that we reign as Kings of Life if we receive (take) the free gift of righteousness and the abundance of grace (favor). Kings give decrees. They don't discuss or suggest, they say it and it's done/carried out.
So in this manner we command the angels; after praying for the Lord to bring you a harvest on the seed you've sown, you bind the Devil and tell him to take his hands off your harvest, reminding him he is rebuked for your sake (because you're a tither (Mal 3:10-12) and then tell the angels of the Lord to go get your harvest and bring it to you right now. And thank God
(If He didn't want us commanding them then He would not say that they are to be commanded by us in Psalm 103 or that they do minister to us the Covenant, being the heirs of salvation in Hebrews 1:14 - right? ;-) ).
I do believe that story too; I heard a good one the Lord did where someone prayed after a huge accident that the Lord would send the angels and He did - people literally physically SHRUNK to get out of a car that was compacted and their lives were saved. Glory to God!

 

[jasoncran]

I don't believe in the fly by jesus idea.
1) this argument presents the idea of two bodies under the blood
2) that jews in church that are raptured and denied what they are promised
3) the jews in the trib and in the millennium are somehow not Christians
4) the gentiles? see #3.
5) the idea of eating in heaven? really, there will be rejoicing but this is a parable. its to show the jews what the marriage that they do on earth and which is a symbolic union of god and the church.
6) if the lord is in heaven and then the earth how can the church be with him in heaven and on the earth when we aren't in bodily shapes yet?

 

[JLB]

actually you don't.

if you are futurist one doesn't take this literally

those who heard these words literally were standing there.

there shall be some of you standing here that shall not see death until all these things come to pass.

The Apostle John was one of those who saw it come to pass and recorded it in what we call the book of Revelation.

I'm sure others witnessed it as well, but didn't record it or their works never made it into the Bible.


JLB