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What was Paul teaching in 2 Thessalonians 2?

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Nathan12

Nathan12

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INTRODUCTION: Paul wrote 2 Thessalonians 2 to ease the minds of the Christians at that time who had been needlessly alarmed by a rumor that the Rapture had already occurred. Which would have meant that Christ had left these Thessalonians behind, even though they expected to be gathered up at His coming (which was always regarded as imminent). Therefore Paul showed them that there is a definite sequence of events before the Rapture and the revelation of the Antichrist (which comes after the Rapture). There is no mention of the Tribulation in this passage, which is clear evidence that the Rapture occurs before the Tribulation, while the Tribulation occurs after the Antichrist takes control of the world for 42 months (Revelation 13).

THE RAPTURE IS AN ESTABLISHED BIBLE TRUTH
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him [NOTE: The word “coming” (Greek parousia) is used here for the Rapture, and it is also used in verse 8 for the Second Coming of Christ. This passage itself establishes that the Rapture and the Second Coming are two distinct events]
THE DAY OF CHRIST IS THE DAY OF THE RAPTURE
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [NOTE: The Day of Christ is NOT the Day of the Lord (LORD). The Day of the Lord corresponds to the Great Tribulation. Only the Received Text has “the day of Christ” in this verse, and it will not be found in the modern versions]
THE GREAT APOSTASY MUST COME BEFORE THE RAPTURE
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,.. [NOTE: We are currently seeing the Great Apostasy within Christendom. Its culmination is not too far distant. The Emergent Church and Ecumenism are manifestationS of the falling away. Christendom will be absorbed into Mystery Babylon through the Ecumenical Movement, which asserts that all religions are valid]
THE ANTICHRIST COMES AFTER THE FALLING AWAY
...and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; [NOTE: It is a part of God's plan to allow the Antichrist to manifest himself to the unbelieving world. But His power and authority will be limited to 42 months only. Therefore the Pope or the Papacy cannot be the Antichrist]
THERE MUST BE A TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM FOR THE ANTICHRIST
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. [NOTE: Orthodox Jews in Israel are currently working on plans for the construction of the third temple in Jerusalem very soon. This temple must be standing in order for the prophecies concerning the Antichrist to be fulfilled]
PAUL HAD BEEN TEACHING THESE THINGS BEFORE WRITING THIS
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? [NOTE: There are several passages in the New Testament which speak of the Rapture. It is in fact the Resurrection/Rapture and the culmination of salvation for the Church. All the saints will be glorified at the Resurrection/Rapture]
THERE IS A SPECIFIC TIME FOR THE REVELATION OF THE ANTICHRIST
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. [NOTE: Just as there was a specific time for the revelation of the Christ (Jesus of Nazareth), there is a specific time for the revelation of the Antichrist, a renegade Jew claiming to be God and Christ]
THE HOLY SPIRIT IS RESTRAINING THE REIGN OF THE ANTICHRIST
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:... [NOTE: The Mystery of Iniquity is the reality of God allowing Satan and his evil spirits a degree of freedom even though Christ has destroyed the power of the devil. God has also assigned 3 ½ years to Satan and the Antichrist to do their worst on earth. After that they will be cast into the Lake of Fire at the right time]
THE HOLY SPIRIT MUST BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY FIRST
...only he who now letteth [restrains] will let [restrain], until he be taken out of the way. [NOTE: Since the true Church is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, when the divine Restrainer is taken out of the way, the Church is also taken out of the way, which means that they are in Heaven while Satan rules on earth for 3 ½ years. This is the strongest proof that the Rapture occurs before the Tribulation. The words “church” and “churches” will not be found in Revelation 4-18]
THEN THE WICKED ANTICHRIST WILL BE REVEALED
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed... [NOTE: The Antichrist is the epitome of wickedness, evil, and blasphemy on earth. A man totally controlled and possessed by Satan]
BUT THE ANTICHRIST WILL BE DESTROYED BY CHRIST AT HIS SECOND COMING
...whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:[NOTE: The Second Coming of Christ will be at least seven years after the Rapture. The first 3 ½ years will consist of the Tribulation. The last 3 ½ years will be the Great Tribulation]
THE ANTICHRIST IS EMPOWERED BY SATAN TO DO MIRACLES
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, [NOTE: Revelation 13 provides more insight and details regarding this. Satan does have the ability to perform counterfeit miracles through the Antichrist and the False Prophet]
THOSE DECEPTIVE MIRACLES ARE MEANT TO DECEIVE THE UNRIGHTEOUS
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [NOTE: This portion of Scripture is meant to be a warning to those who are not saved. If they reject Christ and the Gospel, they will not be saved, but they will be deceived thoroughly and then damned]
GOD WILL SEND STRONG DELUSION ON AN UNBELIEVING WORLD
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [NOTE: God desires the salvation of all mankind, but those who resist God, resist the Gospel, and resist the Holy Spirit will be placed under a strong delusion. It is a dangerous thing to resist the Holy Spirit when the Gospel is preached]
THOSE WHO SUBMIT TO THE ANTICHRIST WILL BE DAMNED
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. [NOTE: This is made clear in Revelation 14:9-11: And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast [the Antichrist] and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.]
 
Nathan12 said:
There is no mention of the Tribulation in this passage, which is clear evidence that the Rapture occurs before the Tribulation, while the Tribulation occurs after the Antichrist takes control of the world for 42 months (Revelation 13).
Click to expand...

There is no mention of a Rapture in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, as what is written is the coming of the beast out of the sea and out of the earth that even now is working its iniquity. This iniquity will come to full fruition shortly after the sounding of the seventh trumpet of God's wrath before Christ returns.

God's wrath during the first six trumpets sounding is poured out into the world as it affects those who have rejected Christ in hopes that none would perish and turn back to God before Christ returns on the last day. During this time we are kept by God who has sealed us by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.

If by this pretrib theory that the saints are out of here before the son of perdition/last antichrist comes on the scene then what would be the purpose of all his lying signs and wonders that will deceive the nations. What would be the purpose of the mark of this beast since there are no saints that would be forced to take it or die.Why would Satan have to be bound for a time if all the saints are suppose to be in heaven. See, this theory does not line up with the full context of the scriptures as these 1800's teachers first taught this theory and made the scriptures to say what they want them to say. Even if I was looking at this with a carnal logical mind it still doesn't add up.
 
Nathan12 said:
THE RAPTURE IS AN ESTABLISHED BIBLE TRUTH
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him [NOTE: The word “coming” (Greek parousia) is used here for the Rapture, and it is also used in verse 8 for the Second Coming of Christ. This passage itself establishes that the Rapture and the Second Coming are two distinct events]
Click to expand...


Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-8


  • Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him.


Here we see the gathering together unto the Lord, which is the resurrection and rapture. Paul plainly taught this in his first letter to the Thessalonians.



  • For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15



Paul’s teaching is clear. The resurrection, rapture and the destruction of the antichrist all occur at His coming. This is taught in both the first and second letters that Paul wrote to the Thessalonians.


  • And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.



These three distinct things occur at His coming:


The resurrection.
The rapture.
The destruction of the antichrist.



JLB
 
Nathan12 said:
Please read the first verse very slowly and carefully.
Click to expand...

I've read it hundreds of times in the past 40 years and still there is no mention of a pretrib Rapture of the church as what is written is about the son of perdition. The day of Christ has always been at hand from the time He ascended up to heaven and returns on the last day in the air as every generation has been looking for this day.
 
ezra said:
we must remember even though we have studied things out theory is what WE ALL HAVE
Click to expand...

I disagree as what we have is the Holy Spirit, not theories, that reveals all the hidden mysteries of what has already been written of what God wants us to know. 1 Corinthians Chapter 2.
 
ezra said:
disagree all you like
Click to expand...

May I ask why you disagree with what I've said. Is it not scriptural that only the Holy Spirit teaches us all truths? Religious theories are only speculations without sound Biblical doctrine.
 
for_his_glory said:
I've read it hundreds of times in the past 40 years and still there is no mention of a pretrib Rapture of the church
Click to expand...
You may have read it a hundred times but with a preconceived bias. That is not reading it. So let's examine that verse: Now we beseech you, brethren, [1] by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [2] by our gathering together unto him...

So let's examine those two phrases separately:
[1] What is this "coming of the Lord"? It is clearly spelled out in John 14:1-3, in which He says "I WILL COME AGAIN":
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Do you see any mention of a Tribulation, or do you hear the words of comfort "Let not your heart be troubled"?

[2] What is this by our gathering together unto him...
Does it not correspond to and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also? Does it not correspond to Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words? (1 Thess 4:17,18)

Again, words of comfort, not dire warning of the Tribulation. And yet you continue to insist that 2 Thess 2:1 is not about the Rapture. I don't mean to be rude, but that is called wilful blindness.
 
for_his_glory said:
May I ask why you disagree with what I've said. Is it not scriptural that only the Holy Spirit teaches us all truths? Religious theories are only speculations without sound Biblical doctrine.
Click to expand...
did i say i disagreed? or did i say we all had our theories/ interpretations .dont get so defensive goodness
 
JLB said:
These three distinct things occur at His coming:
The resurrection.
The rapture.
The destruction of the antichrist.
Click to expand...
That would be a physical and spiritual absurdity, since you have failed to take into account the Marriage of the Lamb, which must (1) precede the Second Coming and the destruction of the Antichrist, and (2) must have all the saints present in Heaven, since the Church is the Bride of Christ (which becomes the Lamb's Wife, Rev 19). And that can only be if the Church has already been raptured at a previous "coming".

Your problem is trying to apply "coming" (parousia) to one event because the same word is used for the Rapture and the Second Coming. But there is no compelling reason to indulge in absurdities.
 
Nathan12 said:
You may have read it a hundred times but with a preconceived bias. That is not reading it. So let's examine that verse: Now we beseech you, brethren, [1] by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [2] by our gathering together unto him...

So let's examine those two phrases separately:
[1] What is this "coming of the Lord"? It is clearly spelled out in John 14:1-3, in which He says "I WILL COME AGAIN":
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Do you see any mention of a Tribulation, or do you hear the words of comfort "Let not your heart be troubled"?

[2] What is this by our gathering together unto him...
Does it not correspond to and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also? Does it not correspond to Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words? (1 Thess 4:17,18)

Again, words of comfort, not dire warning of the Tribulation. And yet you continue to insist that 2 Thess 2:1 is not about the Rapture. I don't mean to be rude, but that is called wilful blindness.
Click to expand...

by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [2] by our gathering together unto him...

This is a fact that we know Christ will return as scripture states on the last day, John 5:28, 29; 6:40, but you refuse to believe these scriptures as you have been brainwashed by these pretrib teachers.

I believe what John 14:1-3 says, but still does not say when He will return. It takes the full context of the scriptures to know it happens on the last day after the seventh trumpet has sounded. At that time the son of perdition will come and ware out the saints of God. Jesus said let not your heart be troubled as all these things must come first before His return. We are not to fear that which has to come as we are sealed by the Holy Spirit and need not fear them who can kill the flesh.

Your point #2 does correspond as we will be gathered up to Jesus in the air, but still nothing about a pretrib Rapture as scripture states on the last day.

We as a child of God need not a dire warning of the tribulations to come during the seven trumpets sounding as we are already sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption as this is what we comfort each other with. What we need to be doing is warning non-believers about the tribulations that must come first as we take the Gospel message out into the world.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Willful blindness only comes to those who allow themselves to be blinded by feel good messages that come from the pulpit as they do not search the scrptures for themselves.
 
ezra said:
did i say i disagreed? or did i say we all had our theories/ interpretations .dont get so defensive goodness
Click to expand...

First you said; "we must remember even though we have studied things out theory is what WE ALL HAVE."

I disagreed with that as I said we have the Holy Spirit that teaches us all things.

Then you said "disagree if you like".

What I am disagreeing with is you disagreeing of what I said that the Holy Spirit teaches us all things. Theories are only speculations, not scripture.

BTW, I never get defensive as I will not give Satan any place in my life.
 
Nathan12

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Daniel is prophesying about the son of perdition we read about in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 that will reign terror on the saints of God for 3 1/2 years as he wears them out.

Here is my question to you. You say Christ returns for His Bride before the son of perdition comes, then who are these saints that he will wear out?
 
Nathan12 said:
That would be a physical and spiritual absurdity, since you have failed to take into account the Marriage of the Lamb, which must (1) precede the Second Coming and the destruction of the Antichrist, and (2) must have all the saints present in Heaven, since the Church is the Bride of Christ (which becomes the Lamb's Wife, Rev 19). And that can only be if the Church has already been raptured at a previous "coming".

Your problem is trying to apply "coming" (parousia) to one event because the same word is used for the Rapture and the Second Coming. But there is no compelling reason to indulge in absurdities.
Click to expand...


Cmon brother.


It’s undeniable.


The resurrection and rapture occur at the coming of the Lord.


  • For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


The destruction of the antichrist also occurs at His coming.

If fact the antichrist is destroyed by the brightness of His coming.


  • And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8


Please stop teaching God’s people things that are not biblical.


Please!


Nothing good can possibly come from teaching The Lord’s bride unbiblical fairy tales.


Three distinct things occur at His coming.


  1. The Resurrection
  2. The Rapture
  3. The destruction of the wicked; especially the antichrist

Please read these words of scripture -


  • And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8



JLB
 
for_his_glory said:
... who are these saints that he will wear out?
Click to expand...
The book of Daniel has nothing to say about the Church, but much to say about the Jewish saints. These saints are the believing Jewish remnant during the reign of the Antichrist. And these attacks on the Jewish saints correspond to "the time of Jacob's [Israel's] trouble". This is a unique period in history, such as never was, nor ever will be.

Here is what we read in Daniel 12:1: And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people [the Jews]: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
And this corresponds to what we read in Jeremiah 30:5-8: For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace. Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:
 
for_his_glory said:
as you have been brainwashed by these pretrib teachers.
Click to expand...
you crack me up there are many pre trib teachers that could stand nose to nose with in scripture to prove their point. they have just as much right in belief as you do.. BTW i lean more toward mid trib. BUT in the end it will all happen the way God wants it to
 
Nathan12 said:
The book of Daniel has nothing to say about the Church, but much to say about the Jewish saints. These saints are the believing Jewish remnant during the reign of the Antichrist. And these attacks on the Jewish saints correspond to "the time of Jacob's [Israel's] trouble". This is a unique period in history, such as never was, nor ever will be.

Here is what we read in Daniel 12:1: And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people [the Jews]: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
And this corresponds to what we read in Jeremiah 30:5-8: For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace. Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:
Click to expand...

Daniel gives prophecy again as Daniel 12:1 is also referenced in Rev 12 as the birth pains begin as at that time the war in heaven begins between Michael and his angels and Satan and his angels as Satan and his angels are cast down to the earth and gives power to the beast out of the sea and out of the earth. Rev 13. The one out of the earth is the last antichist being the son of perdition. This is the time of trouble/ Jacob's trouble.

What we read in Jeremiah 30:5-8 is also referenced in what Jesus said in Matthew 24:6-8, revealed to John in Rev 12:1-6 as being the beginning of birth pains/beginning of sorrows and also what Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 5:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 speaking about the tribulation at the sounding of the seventh trumpet when the son of perdition begins his deceitful reign with lying signs and wonders for 3 1/2 years.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

When the son of perdition/last antichrist takes his literal seat in Jerusalem he will rule over every nation on every continent. So no, it is not Jewish saints that as you believe are separate from the Gentile saints as all Jew and Gentile are all the children of God as we are all the branches of the vine that is Christ Jesus.
 
ezra said:
you crack me up there are many pre trib teachers that could stand nose to nose with in scripture to prove their point. they have just as much right in belief as you do.. BTW i lean more toward mid trib. BUT in the end it will all happen the way God wants it to
Click to expand...

I've stood nose to nose with some pretrib teachers and after sharing with each other they realized it is a false deception they teach. Brainwashed might not be the right word to use, but even I use to believe all their teachings until I realized none of what they teach lines up with the scriptures.
 
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