RED BEETLE said:
Calvinism is the way to go.
It is what the Bible teaches.
Check out my video attack on the subtle form of Arminianism known as The Three Points of Common Grace.
You can watch the videos, they are titled, "The Monty Collier Report", at this link:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=30213
Red Beetle
Has anyone ever wondered how God could take delite in making people come to Him against their wills, by this so called "regeneration". They are really nothing more than brainwashed. when they come to Him, it is only because they had no choice. When in reality they would realy prefer to continue hating Him. When the truth is to be told, they don’t really love Him, because love is dependant on choice. His converts' warm feelings toward Him are in truth, delusions that are not realy their own fealings; they are only God's own fealing for Himself implanted into the one who realy does not want them. This is equal to taking a prisoner, brainwash him or put a spell on him or even fill him with certain drugs that make him pliable, tell him to say, " I love you". Does that give you the same feeling as when your wife or child says it? And why not? Because free will has been eliminated. The priosoner is only saying what you are making him say.
Furthermore, why must we preach the gospel in order for people to be saved? If man plays no part at all in his conversion, why must he hear the gospel to be saved? A true Calvinist could never say that persuasive preaching influences the unregenerate person to yield to God, because the unregenerate person will always use his freedom to resist God (Piper, p. 9, prgh. 6). Thus the only way an unregenerate person becomes regenerate is if God sovereignly bestows upon him His irresistible grace. So all the persuasive preaching in the world won’t make a bit of difference in the saving of anyone. In fact, to even attempt to persuade someone is an attack on God’s supposed sovereign grace in salvation, because to do so implies that salvation rests, in part, on the hearer and also rests, in part, on the preacher.
According to true Calvinists, our preaching cannot have any persuasive power over one who is totally depraved, and if it does, then we must admit that unregenerate man can do something (be persuaded) that leads to his salvation.
If it is true that man’s free will plays no part in his salvation, if man has nothing to do with his repentance because the ability to repent is only God’s gift, then why did Paul often reason with the Jews from the Scriptures to prove that Jesus was the Messiah (e.g., see Acts 17:2-4)? Why did he attempt to “persuade men†(2 Cor. 5:11) and beg people to be “reconciled to God� Wouldn't that be futile if it is only up to Gods sovereignity to be saved?
Clearly, Paul believed that what he said and did affected the results of his evangelism, because people’s wills played a part in their salvation.
Again, If it is true that man’s free will plays no part in his salvation, if man has nothing to do with his repentance, a preacher’s attempt to persuade an unregenerate man would be an admission that man plays a part in his repentance, and it would be an affront to God’s sovereigntyâ€â€if no man can be saved apart from God’s irresistible grace. In fact, to try to persuade an unregenerate person to yield to Christ is to mislead him into thinking that he is not so totally depraved after all, because he can choose to repent!
If people must hear preaching in order to be saved, then people (and preachers) play a part in their salvation, because preaching persuades them to do something, and thus they must have free wills that can choose to repent. This is just one more proof that salvation is not solely the work of God. Man must play a part, otherwise there would be no need for preaching.
Calvinists attempt to answer this particular objection by saying that preaching the gospel is simply
a means God uses in saving people. I must ask then, “Is it a meaningless means or a meaningful means?†If it is a meaningless means, then why do you call it a means? If something is a means to something else, then it serves a purpose to a certain end. There is no such thing as a meaningless means.
If it is a meaningful means, then it serves some purpose that needs to be served to reach the desired ends. According to Scripture, preaching the gospel is an essential means (see Rom. 10:14), because by it God’s message is communicated to people who, if they are to be saved, must believe God’s message and repent. Thus, people’s salvation is dependent on preachers preaching and hearers responding.
If salvation is supposedly a sovereign act of God who bestows on some people His irresistible grace, why don’t Calvinists simply stand in front of unregenerate audiences and recite nursery rhymes? Then they could prove the truth of their doctrine of irresistible grace as people are sovereignly born again. Yet I notice that Calvinists try to appeal to the minds and hearts of their hearers in order to persuade them to repent and believe, something their audiences, by definition, can’t do unless God sovereignly regenerates them. The preaching of Calvinists contradicts what they say they believe.
If Calvinists are consistent with their theology, what is the gospel that they should proclaim? Should they deceive their audiences, calling on them to repent and believe in Christ, misleading them into thinking that they can do something in regards to their salvation, thus strengthening their listener’s pride and increasing their spiritual darkness? Or do they tell them the “truth†that they are so depraved that they are incapable of submitting to God, and unless God shows them His irresistible grace, they can never be saved? How does “faith come from hearing†(Rom. 10:17) that?
Obviously, such a “gospel†leaves nothing for the hearer to cling to in faith. That is why Calvinists keep their unique doctrines secret from the unregenerate, only to reveal them at a later time to Christians when they are ready to receive the “truth.†Truly, the five points of Calvinism are the “family secret.†Even though they are supposedly the foundational truths of salvation, they dare not be revealed to the unsaved. This, by itself, shows the fallacy of Calvinism. Calvinists intuitively know thatf they tell unregenerate people the “truth,†they will have no converts. So they preach a deceptive Arminian gospel, hope for a response, and later let their converts know “what really happened.â€Â
Excerpts by David Servant ©2007