What's new
  • Do not use Chrome Incognito when registering as it freezes the registration page.
  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • No longer will OSAS vx OSNAS be allowed to be debated, argued, or discussed in theology forum. Too much time is required to monitor and rescources used to debate this subject which hasn't been definitively decided in 3,000 years.

Bible Study Christ's Rules & Guidelines

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
21,647
Gender
Male
it's saying not to eat if it offends someone...

Also, he is saying to eat it, if you are going to offend someone by not eating it, unless the person specifically informs you that it was offered to idols.


  • If any of those who do not believe invites you to dinner, and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience’ sake. But if anyone says to you, “This was offered to idols,” do not eat it...



All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify. Let no one seek his own, but each one the other’s well-being.
Eat whatever is sold in the meat market, asking no questions for conscience’ sake; for “the earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness.”
If any of those who do not believe invites you to dinner, and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience’ sake. But if anyone says to you, “This was offered to idols,” do not eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience’ sake; for “the earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness.” “Conscience,” I say, not your own, but that of the other. For why is my liberty judged by another man’s conscience? But if I partake with thanks, why am I evil spoken of for the food over which I give thanks?
Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God, 1 Corinthians 10:23-32




JLB
 

wondering

Supporter
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
12,059
Gender
Female
Also, he is saying to eat it, if you are going to offend someone by not eating it, unless the person specifically informs you that it was offered to idols.


  • If any of those who do not believe invites you to dinner, and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience’ sake. But if anyone says to you, “This was offered to idols,” do not eat it...


All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify. Let no one seek his own, but each one the other’s well-being.
Eat whatever is sold in the meat market, asking no questions for conscience’ sake; for “the earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness.”
If any of those who do not believe invites you to dinner, and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience’ sake. But if anyone says to you, “This was offered to idols,” do not eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience’ sake; for “the earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness.” “Conscience,” I say, not your own, but that of the other. For why is my liberty judged by another man’s conscience? But if I partake with thanks, why am I evil spoken of for the food over which I give thanks?
Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God, 1 Corinthians 10:23-32




JLB
Thanks JLB...
It works both ways...
 
  • Like
Reactions: JLB

Dant02

Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
86
Gender
Male
.
It sounds like you're speaking about belonging to the Kingdom of God.
Christ's believing followers are enrolled as citizens of his kingdom now; in real time-- no delay and no waiting period.

Col 1:13 . . He delivered us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son

Phil 3:20 . .Our citizenship is in heaven.
_
 

Dant02

Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2019
Messages
86
Gender
Male
.
IMO, I don't like using the word rules or regulations as it makes God sound like a ruling tyrant. New babes in Christ, especially Teens don't want to hear there are rules and regulations to follow in order to be a Christian as I feel it puts pressure and frustration on them.
Resistance to God's rules and regulations is a natural reaction to His authority.

Rom 8:7-8 . .The carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

In the passage below, there's a Greek word somewhat uncommon in the New Testament and, I dare say, somewhat unpopular too.

Acts 4:24 . .Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is

The Greek word for "lord" in that passage is despotes (des-pot'-ace) meaning a despot, which Webster's defines as a) a ruler with absolute power and authority, and b) one exercising power tyrannically; viz: a person exercising absolute power in a brutal or oppressive way

When the only God that people see in the New Testament is a loving God, then they are not seeing both sides of the deity coin. Their God is a one-eyed Jack, but the New Testament reveals the other side of His face.

Rom 11:22 . . Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

John 15:10 . . If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.
_
 

wondering

Supporter
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
12,059
Gender
Female
.


Resistance to God's rules and regulations is a natural reaction to His authority.

Rom 8:7-8 . .The carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

In the passage below, there's a Greek word somewhat uncommon in the New Testament and, I dare say, somewhat unpopular too.

Acts 4:24 . .Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is

The Greek word for "lord" in that passage is despotes (des-pot'-ace) meaning a despot, which Webster's defines as a) a ruler with absolute power and authority, and b) one exercising power tyrannically; viz: a person exercising absolute power in a brutal or oppressive way

When the only God that people see in the New Testament is a loving God, then they are not seeing both sides of the deity coin. Their God is a one-eyed Jack, but the New Testament reveals the other side of His face.

Rom 11:22 . . Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

John 15:10 . . If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.
_
Amen.
I like to say that some accept Jesus as their savior,
But not as their Lord.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JLB

for_his_glory

Light in darkness
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
12,487
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
Resistance to God's rules and regulations is a natural reaction to His authority.
Within the conversation we are talking about calling it rules and regulations vs. Commandments and obedience. Of course resistance to God's rules and regulations is a natural carnal reaction to His authority. No one is saying anything different.

Many churches have their own rules an regulations (doctrines) that actually keep those who are seeking kept outside the church's doors as they are not deemed worthy to enter through them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JLB

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
21,647
Gender
Male
Within the conversation we are talking about calling it rules and regulations vs. Commandments and obedience. Of course resistance to God's rules and regulations is a natural carnal reaction to His authority. No one is saying anything different.

Many churches have their own rules an regulations (doctrines) that actually keep those who are seeking kept outside the church's doors as they are not deemed worthy to enter through them.

Good word, sister!


“Traditions”, as in the traditions of men means “teachings of men”.


He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. Mark 7:9


Tradition - Strongs 3862 G - paradosis


  1. giving up, giving over
    1. the act of giving up
    2. the surrender of cities
  2. a giving over which is done by word of mouth or in writing, i.e. tradition by instruction, narrative, precept, etc.
    1. objectively, that which is delivered, the substance of a teaching
    2. of the body of precepts, esp. ritual, which in the opinion of the later Jews were orally delivered by Moses and orally transmitted in unbroken succession to subsequent generations, which precepts, both illustrating and expanding the written law, as they did were to be obeyed with equal reverence



Jesus is making a clear distinction here that their “tradition” or teaching is in opposition to the commandment of God.


On the other hand, Paul in teaching the church to adhere to and maintain the God inspired “traditions” or teachings he has delivered to them.


Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.
2 Thessalonians 2:15




JLB
 

WIP

Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
10,232
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
The title of this thread has not set well with me since it was first posted. Are God's commands really rules and laws or are they guidelines for righteous living?

It is not uncommon that if a parent gives a child constructive instruction about how to do something or not do something they are more likely to listen and follow than if a parent orders them to do something or not do something.

This is the whole idea behind the idea that when a child misbehaves, taking a child aside and having a one-on-one discussion about what the child did wrong and how to avoid it in the future is considered a better parenting tactic than just punishing the child.

Consider the 10 Commandments. I have often explained that they are not designed as rules or laws but rather explanations for how we fail and why we so desperately need a savior. It's like God saying something to the effect, "You think your good? How about these?" and then He goes on with the 10-Commandments.

Am I making any sense?
 

wondering

Supporter
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
12,059
Gender
Female
The title of this thread has not set well with me since it was first posted. Are God's commands really rules and laws or are they guidelines for righteous living?

It is not uncommon that if a parent gives a child constructive instruction about how to do something or not do something they are more likely to listen and follow than if a parent orders them to do something or not do something.

This is the whole idea behind the idea that when a child misbehaves, taking a child aside and having a one-on-one discussion about what the child did wrong and how to avoid it in the future is considered a better parenting tactic than just punishing the child.

Consider the 10 Commandments. I have often explained that they are not designed as rules or laws but rather explanations for how we fail and why we so desperately need a savior. It's like God saying something to the effect, "You think your good? How about these?" and then He goes on with the 10-Commandments.

Am I making any sense?
You're making sense WIP, but I have to disagree on a couple of points.

1. If we follow God's "guidelines" we will, of course, have a better life. God wants this for us, so if we follow them, the outcome will be good because God is good and wants our good also.

However, they are not called commands, commandments, for nothing. They're good for us,,,BUT God does not make requests.
He commands us to live a certain way,,,this way will also be to our advantage...but it's also what is required or a wholly moral God...our lives must reflect that.

It actually goes beyond rules and regulations...they are commands...commandments. We can't forget that God is a wholly moral being.

It's not God saying "you think you're good, how about these",,,no, it's actually God telling us - commanding us - how we should live. I also used to teach kids that the 10 are for our own good and teach us how to live...but as adults we should know that it does go beyond this idea.


2. As to kids. I never was one for explaining to little kids WHY they have to obey. My two kids obeyed because they knew I was doing it for their good and because they knew they had to listen.
Little children can't understand half the things adults tell them.

When they got a little older I'd give them the reason..but by then they knew they'd have to do the action anyway. PUT AWAY YOUR BOOKS means PUT AWAY YOUR BOOKS,,,,no use to discuss it - even adults don't know anything they haven't been thru. (I'm not a tyrant).
 

Nathan12

Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
544
Gender
Male
The title of this thread has not set well with me since it was first posted. Are God's commands really rules and laws or are they guidelines for righteous living?
The title could have been "Christ's Commandments", and that would have reflected the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ did give His Church commandments through the apostles. They are both guidelines and commandments.

Regarding the Ten Commandments, they are there as God's moral and spiritual standards for all human beings. That all have broken those commandments confirms that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. That no one can be saved by trying to obey them is also clear, since perfect obedience is God's only acceptable standard. Therefore all this must lead the sinner to the Savior.
 
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
9,342
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
i think im with nathan12 on this one. Jesus fulfilled the law and was crucified to satisfy humanity's collective sin debt. His resurrection serves a number of purposes, a big one being His (and, through Him, His followers'...) victory over: sin, satan, self, death, and the world. didn't the veil in the Holy of Holies rip apart because of Jesus' victory? I don't have an address for these things...this is just off the top of my head....

oh, and...for a far more in depth, thorough, and Biblically-supported exploration of The Law...check this out: https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/sproul/threefold_law.html
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
21,647
Gender
Male
Are God's commands really rules and laws or are they guidelines for righteous living?

They are guidelines for righteous living.

They are the way of love.

Loving God by loving our neighbor.

They correspond to His commandments that are written in our heart, according to the Spirit of the New Covenant.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3



Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:8-10





JLB
 

DeepWater

Just The Truth
Member
Joined
May 7, 2019
Messages
38
Gender
Male
Interesting topic.

"now that im saved, what do i do next".

Well, if you came to me, and told me this, then i would disciple you until i felt you were ready for the Devil.
That takes a bit of time.
So, i guess that qualifies as something we should ALL do for Jesus, as "when we do it to the least of these, we do it to HIM"

So, i would say that what a young believer should do, first, is find an elder believer, and sit at their feet for about 2 yrs, until they are grounded in this verse :
Hebrews 13:9
This verse is the prime protection against the darkness of legalism.
People who didn't start their Walk with God, under the influence of this verse, 30 yrs later, won't be able to explain what Jesus was teaching and what He had accomplished when He said this...."It IS Finished".
Yet, they can tell you all about what James said, or misuse some verses in Hebrews 10 to insult Grace for the rest of their lives.
So..
Hebrews 13:9
This verse leads to Pauline Theology, and this is HOLY GROUND.....So, i would only teach a new convert what Paul would teach a new Convert, as this is VITAL.
Paul said, "Be ye followers of ME, as i follow Christ".....so, that sounds good to me.
I would keep the newbie beleiver out of Hebrews Chp 4-6-10, or Matthew or James, until they understood "Salvation is by Grace, without works." "justification by Faith" = alone.
Amazing that if you dont learn what Hebrews 13:9 is teaching , early in your "New Birth" experience, you'll end up as a Galatian 1:8, about 95% of the time within 10yrs after you were saved.

So, once that was all established in them , Hebrews 13:9, then i would teach them about "rightly dividing" and finally teach them some things about = "dispensational" teaching.
From there, and all along the way, i would have taught them to understand that the main thing God wants us to DO, beyond Holy Living and really learning the Word, is just one thing...
He wants us to bring more people to the Cross so that He can save them ALL.
He wants us to not end up in Heaven, and we've never led anyone to Christ, or discipled anyone. And so, once the new believer has all that "down pat" and can TEACH IT, then i know they have it, and im done. = The Devil can't confuse them now, so that means he won't get to use them.

The real work, is when we are DOING what Jesus did.
Get them saved, and get them going.

That is the work, thats the REAL end game.



dw
 

for_his_glory

Light in darkness
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
12,487
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
Interesting topic.

"now that im saved, what do i do next".

Well, if you came to me, and told me this, then i would disciple you until i felt you were ready for the Devil.
That takes a bit of time.
So, i guess that qualifies as something we should ALL do for Jesus, as "when we do it to the least of these, we do it to HIM"

So, i would say that what a young believer should do, first, is find an elder believer, and sit at their feet for about 2 yrs, until they are grounded in this verse :
Hebrews 13:9
This verse is the prime protection against the darkness of legalism.
People who didn't start their Walk with God, under the influence of this verse, 30 yrs later, won't be able to explain what Jesus was teaching and what He had accomplished when He said this...."It IS Finished".
Yet, they can tell you all about what James said, or misuse some verses in Hebrews 10 to insult Grace for the rest of their lives.
So..
Hebrews 13:9
This verse leads to Pauline Theology, and this is HOLY GROUND.....So, i would only teach a new convert what Paul would teach a new Convert, as this is VITAL.
Paul said, "Be ye followers of ME, as i follow Christ".....so, that sounds good to me.
I would keep the newbie beleiver out of Hebrews Chp 4-6-10, or Matthew or James, until they understood "Salvation is by Grace, without works." "justification by Faith" = alone.
Amazing that if you dont learn what Hebrews 13:9 is teaching , early in your "New Birth" experience, you'll end up as a Galatian 1:8, about 95% of the time within 10yrs after you were saved.

So, once that was all established in them , Hebrews 13:9, then i would teach them about "rightly dividing" and finally teach them some things about = "dispensational" teaching.
From there, and all along the way, i would have taught them to understand that the main thing God wants us to DO, beyond Holy Living and really learning the Word, is just one thing...
He wants us to bring more people to the Cross so that He can save them ALL.
He wants us to not end up in Heaven, and we've never led anyone to Christ, or discipled anyone. And so, once the new believer has all that "down pat" and can TEACH IT, then i know they have it, and im done. = The Devil can't confuse them now, so that means he won't get to use them.

The real work, is when we are DOING what Jesus did.
Get them saved, and get them going.

That is the work, thats the REAL end game.



dw
Not sure what you mean about being ready for the devil, unless you mean that we learn of his devices he uses to try and steal our faith. We can not fight him on our own as it takes the full armour of God to stand against his wiles as Jesus has already given us the victory over Satan, Ephesians 6:10-18.

There is no time limit to be grounded in the word of God as we are ever learning everyday and stand grounded on what we learn by reading and studying the Bible as the Holy Spirit teaches us directly or works through others to help teach us.

The first part of Hebrews 13:9 is also a reference to 1 John 4:1-6 that we learn to Spiritually discern the spirits that are teaching us as one is truth and the other error. This is how we rightly divide the word of God as many false teachers are out there deceiving those with their enticing words.

What we are called to do is to take the Gospel of God's grace out into the worlds to those who will have ears to hear will accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. The best place for a new babe in Christ to start reading is the book of John as this will explain who Jesus is and our relationship with Him. Then I direct them to the book of Acts as this will help teach them about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

In time their faith by the grace of God in His Son Christ Jesus will grow in understanding all God wants for them to learn. We are ever learning as no one can exhaust all the teachings contained in the Bible, but to know the greatest commandment is to walk in love.
 

DeepWater

Just The Truth
Member
Joined
May 7, 2019
Messages
38
Gender
Male
Not sure what you mean about being ready for the devil,This is how we rightly divide the word of God as many false teachers are out there deceiving those with their enticing words.

What we are called to do is to take the Gospel of God's grace out into the worlds to those who will have ears to hear will accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. The best place for a new babe in Christ to start reading is the book of John

In time their faith by the grace of God in His Son Christ Jesus will grow in understanding all God wants for them to learn. We are ever learning as no one can exhaust all the teachings contained in the Bible, but to know the greatest commandment is to walk in love.
You end your idea of how to disciple a baby Christian with the exact way the Devil hopes will happen to them.
Do you realize this?
All you offered them was to read about Jesus, then to realize the Holy Spirit is in them, and then you let them go with just that, and expect God to take it from there.
Well, thats a fail.
You just created a Christian failure, and its the cults that knock on doors, who just hope they find your disciple.
They will have them reading the book of Mormon or attending a JW church so fast that their head will not just spin, but the world around them also, once these "types" get finished with them.
So, you have just described what happens when the Devil gets the new convert, because the Christian was not up to speed regarding how to train a baby believer.
And what you offered them, is the fasted means possible for them to find themselves lost in the deception and ruined for life.

Listen, it actually matters to God, that we actually create a new believer into a follower of Pauline Theology, 1 Corinthians 11:1. who is grounded in GRACE, and who understands that soul winning is more important then church attendance.
Stuff like that.

So, maybe you can read what i wrote, and add it to your list of things to teach a new believer.
Tho, first, I think you should learn about these things that are on my list, as you cant teach what you dont know or understand.

no offense intended, FHG, but, there are a few gaping holes in your discipleship methodology.
Im glad i didnt meet you, as my teacher, when i was first born again., truly.



dw
 

for_his_glory

Light in darkness
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
12,487
Gender
Female
Christian
Yes
You end your idea of how to disciple a baby Christian with the exact way the Devil hopes will happen to them.
Do you realize this?
All you offered them was to read about Jesus, then to realize the Holy Spirit is in them, and then you let them go with just that, and expect God to take it from there.
Well, thats a fail.
You just created a Christian failure, and its the cults that knock on doors, who just hope they find your disciple.
They will have them reading the book of Mormon or attending a JW church so fast that their head will not just spin, but the world around them also, once these "types" get finished with them.
So, you have just described what happens when the Devil gets the new convert, because the Christian was not up to speed regarding how to train a baby believer.
And what you offered them, is the fasted means possible for them to find themselves lost in the deception and ruined for life.

Listen, it actually matters to God, that we actually create a new believer into a follower of Pauline Theology, 1 Corinthians 11:1. who is grounded in GRACE, and who understands that soul winning is more important then church attendance.
Stuff like that.

So, maybe you can read what i wrote, and add it to your list of things to teach a new believer.
Tho, first, I think you should learn about these things that are on my list, as you cant teach what you dont know or understand.

no offense intended, FHG, but, there are a few gaping holes in your discipleship methodology.
Im glad i didnt meet you, as my teacher, when i was first born again., truly.



dw
You have misunderstood everything I said. I never said to shove a Bible in their hand, give them some scriptures to read then let them fend for themselves. It's totally the opposite which you have accused me of doing.

New babes in Christ need leadership, discipline, teachers that have been called of God to teach them about God's salvation by His grace through that of Christ Jesus in whom we have faith in and forgiveness of sin. They need to learn about their relationship with Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That is why I suggested they read the book of John and Acts as this will help them with their learning of who Jesus is in their life and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. These are the things we need to be teaching a new babe in Christ.

BTW, we are not followers of Paul, but that of Christ who taught Paul, just like all the Disciples of Christ that have penned their witness and testify of what Jesus has already orally taught. None of us can save anyone nor bring them to Christ as it is Christ alone that draws others to Him by the Holy Spirit as we also being disciples of Christ teach the Gospel of God's mercy and grace to those who will have ears to hear.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JLB

Please consider donating

Total amount
$737.00
Goal
$4,080.00
Top