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Nicolaitans?

ezrider

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In the book of Revelation, the Nicolaitans are mentioned with respect to two of the churches. But, little else is mentioned of them. What were their deeds that God hates? Is there anyone who has studied Josephus or the early church history that might be able to offer any insight?

thx
 

for_his_glory

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God spoke this warning to two Churches in Revelations. One being the Church at Ephesus and the Church at Pergamos. The Nicolaitans were a Gentile heretic sect that converted over to Judaism to dominate others with their heretic teachings.

Irenaeus, Hippolytus, Epiphanius, and Theodoret mentioned this group, and stated that the deacon Nicolas was the author of the heresy and the sect. The Nicolaitanes are the followers of that Nicolas who was one of the seven first ordained to the diaconate by the apostles. They lead lives of unrestrained indulgence as in eating things offered to idols. The teaching of the Nicolaitans was to dominate the people leading them astray from that of what Jesus taught and this goes against the teachings of Jesus, Matthew 20:25-28.

Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

Rev 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

Act 6:5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:
 

Doulos Iesou

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In the book of Revelation, the Nicolaitans are mentioned with respect to two of the churches. But, little else is mentioned of them. What were their deeds that God hates? Is there anyone who has studied Josephus or the early church history that might be able to offer any insight?

thx
Here is a quote from Irenaeus.

"The Nicolaitanes are the followers of that Nicolas who was one of the seven first ordained to the diaconate by the apostles. They lead lives of unrestrained indulgence. The character of these men is very plainly pointed out in the Apocalypse of John, [when they are represented] as teaching that it is a matter of indifference to practice adultery, and to eat things sacrificed to idols."
 

Jethro Bodine

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If my memory serves me correctly, the Nicolaitans considered that the flesh counted for nothing, so anything done by the flesh was of no consequence.
 

TOG

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If my memory serves me correctly, the Nicolaitans considered that the flesh counted for nothing, so anything done by the flesh was of no consequence.

That's what the Gnostics believed, and according to the Wikipedia article about them, the Nicolaitans were a Gnostic group. The article says that the early church fathers had some interesting things to say about them.

The Nicolaitanes are the followers of that Nicolas who was one of the seven first ordained to the diaconate by the apostles. They lead lives of unrestrained indulgence. The character of these men is very plainly pointed out in the Apocalypse of John, [when they are represented] as teaching that it is a matter of indifference to practice adultery, and to eat things sacrificed to idols. -- Irenaeus

[Nicolas] had an attractive wife, and had refrained from intercourse as though in imitation of those whom he saw to be devoted to God. He endured this for a while but in the end could not bear to control his incontinence.... But because he was ashamed of his defeat and suspected that he had been found out, he ventured to say, "Unless one copulates every day, he cannot have eternal life." -- Epiphanius
(Source)

According to Clement of Alexandria, Nicolas, whom the movement is named after, may not have been such a bad man. Clement says Nicolas lived a chaste life and that things he said were taken out of context by the Nicolaitans.

The TOG​
 

turnorburn

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Where Satan's seat was/is..

Revelation 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Today Satan's seat is located in Rome..

tob
 

Doulos Iesou

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Where Satan's seat was/is..

Revelation 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Today Satan's seat is located in Rome..

tob
It's in Rome?
 

turnorburn

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When Jesus comes He will destroy Antichrist with the spirit of His mouth and where will He find him.. i suppose it depends on whom you think Antichrist is

II Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

tob
 

Doulos Iesou

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When Jesus comes He will destroy Antichrist with the spirit of His mouth and where will He find him.. i suppose it depends on whom you think Antichrist is

II Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

tob
2 Thessalonians is talking about the Man of Lawlessness, only 1 John talks about the "antichrist," where he plainly says who this is.

For instance, you identify this as one person, when John does no such thing.

Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18 (ESV)

Notice, the first usage of the word antichristos is without a definite article, and later used as antichristoi the plural form saying that many have come at the present. The Greek adverb nyn basically means "at the present" or "now."

So we have something that is more than one person, and they were present at the time of John's writing.

Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. 1 John 2:22 (ESV)

Now if that last passage wasn't specific enough, this one surely is. You ask me who I think the antichrist is? Well I agree with John's answer, it is he who denies the Father and the Son. That's who the antichrist is.
 

turnorburn

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Does your church practice these maneuvers to attract converts..

The Inquisition is an institution of the Roman Catholic religion. It was developed to stem "heresy"--including the gospel of salvation as found in the Bible. The Inquisition was zealously carried out by Romish Inquisitor-Generals, priests, and monks. And oh yes, they had the support of the secular authorities. Know ye not that the Dark Ages were dark because the papacy was at the height of its monstrous glory--ruling over kings and queens and encouraging recusancy towards any ruler that did not bow to the devil/papacy? Romanism is the Devil's religion, therefore papists do the works of the Devil. Only the Devil could incite men to do the deeds recounted by Samuel Clarke in his book Martyrology circa 1651. Papists have tortured and killed Christians for centuries. These are grievous crimes that are loathsome to even list but multitudes endured these for the gospel's sake. Christian friend, if YOU were before the Inquisition and they wanted you to say Jesus is a piece of bread, would you do it? Many of your brothers and sisters held out for the cause of Christ. They resisted to the blood striving against sin. Here are a just a few of the tortures they went through--
  • Skin flayed off of head, face and body
  • Nipples pulled off
  • Fried alive in pans
  • Bound to pillar head down and roasted
  • Mouth slit back to ears
  • Crucified upside down
  • Put in cauldrons of boiling oil
  • Thrown out of windows upon upward facing spears
  • Bodies gored through mouths with pikes
  • Arms cut off
  • Torturous slow burning e.g., burn soles of feet, then up to ankles, mid-calf, etc. until dead
  • Bellies burnt until bowels fell out
  • Women stripped, hung from tree by their hair and scourged
  • Tourniquet placed on head and twisted until eyes came out
  • Ears bored out
  • Tongue cut out
  • Set down (by pulley) into a fire by degrees
  • Thrown to dogs
  • Hung up by the heels and choked with smoke
  • Smothered in caves on mountains
  • Hearts pulled out, which the papists gnawed with their teeth.
  • Some roasted upon spits over a soft fire
  • Some had their bowels pulled out
  • A smith had his brains beaten out on his anvil with a hammer
  • Some had sharp instruments forced under their nails and other body parts
  • Some racked until their bowels broke out
  • Some had their throats cut with butcher knives
  • Knocked on the head with axes
  • Naked women left hung up by one leg on trees until they died
  • Some slain and their body parts set on stakes for 30 miles streches
  • Some had their noses and breasts pulled off with red hot pinchers
  • Some had their flesh torn with the claws of wild animals
  • Murdered in a church during sermon
  • Some hanged by one foot, their hands and breasts in the water
  • Some hung up by one hand with weights of lead at their heels
  • Two tied together and slain
  • Some were torn in pieces by horses
  • A legion of soldiers cut some to pieces with swords
  • Some had boots of boiling oil put on their legs over a small fire.
  • Some hung up on trees by the middle til they died of hunger
  • Women's bellies ripped up and their children trod underfeet

The following quotes are cited from The American Textbook of Popery which in turn quotes from the Directory for the Inquisitors (page numbers listed are for the Directory)--


"He is a heretic who does not believe what the Roman Hierarchy teaches. --A heretic merits the pains of fire. --By the Gospel, the canons, civil law, and custom, heretics must be burned."--148, 169

"He is a heretic who deviates from any article of faith." --p. 143

tob
 

Doulos Iesou

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And just whom do you think the pope thinks he is?

tob
The Bishop of Rome, and the head representative of Christ for the Church. He doesn't think he is the antichrist, that's for sure.

And I doubt the current Pope accepts EVERYTHING the Catholic Church once stood for, as I have heard many Catholics respond negatively to the behavior of the Church during the inquisition.

I'm not a Catholic, but I find many Protestants go out of their way to find fault with the RCC even misrepresenting much of what they believe.
 

turnorburn

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Your absolutely right some people go way out of their way lets see how Charles Spurgeon rings in on antichrist..

“It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist and as to what Antichrist is no sane man ought to raise a question. If it be not the Popery in the Church of Rome, there is nothing in the world that can be called by that name. . .It wounds Christ, because it robs Christ of His glory, because it puts sacramental efficacy in the place of His atonement and lifts a piece of bread into the place of the Savior and a few drops of water into the place of the Holy Spirit and puts a mere fallible man like ourselves up as the Vicar of Christ on earth. If we pray against it, because it is against Him, we shall love the persons though we hate their errors; we shall love their souls though we loathe and detest their dogmas. And so the breath of our prayers will be sweetened because we turn our faces toward Christ when we pray.”

- Charles H. Spurgeon (1834-1892)

How do you know he doesn't think he's antichrist.. John said the world would love antichrist what does the world say about the pope?

tob
 

JLB

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The deeds of the Nicolaitans were that of setting up a Hierarchy over the people, dividing them into laymen, "those who serve", and leadership, "those who are served".

This is what happens in most Churches today.

Also, it is interesting to note this statement that came out of the Council of Trent -

"If anyone shall say that there is not in the Catholic Church a hierarchy established by the divine ordination, consisting of bishops, presbyters and ministers, let him be anathema.
Council of Trent (trans) XXIII 6." (Century Dictionary.)


JLB
 

Jethro Bodine

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"If anyone shall say that there is not in the Catholic Church a hierarchy established by the divine ordination, consisting of bishops, presbyters and ministers, let him be anathema.
Council of Trent (trans) XXIII 6." (Century Dictionary.)
I don't question a divinely ordained hierarchy. I sometimes question those who claim to be filling those slots.
 

Jethro Bodine

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The deeds of the Nicolaitans were that of setting up a Hierarchy over the people, dividing them into laymen, "those who serve", and leadership, "those who are served".

This is what happens in most Churches today.
Did you know layity is in the Bible?

But I see your point about the leadership being served.
 

Jethro Bodine

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...we hate their errors; we shall love their souls though we loathe and detest their dogmas. And so the breath of our prayers will be sweetened because we turn our faces toward Christ when we pray.”

- Charles H. Spurgeon (1834-1892)
Hmm. Makes me think that more than just a few Christians have more than their share of garlic and onions in their spiritual diet.

bad-breath.gif

http://www.davisanddingle.com/blog/bid/82769/10-Tips-to-Eliminating-that-Unpleasant-Bad-Breath



John said the world would love antichrist what does the world say about the pope?
I'm not convinced the papacy is where the anti-christ will come from, but I've always been intrigued by the world's adoration for the pope. It doesn't reason because identifying yourself with spiritual truth is how you become the enemy of the world, not it's adoring friend.
 

Doulos Iesou

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Your absolutely right some people go way out of their way lets see how Charles Spurgeon rings in on antichrist..

“It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist and as to what Antichrist is no sane man ought to raise a question. If it be not the Popery in the Church of Rome, there is nothing in the world that can be called by that name. . .It wounds Christ, because it robs Christ of His glory, because it puts sacramental efficacy in the place of His atonement and lifts a piece of bread into the place of the Savior and a few drops of water into the place of the Holy Spirit and puts a mere fallible man like ourselves up as the Vicar of Christ on earth. If we pray against it, because it is against Him, we shall love the persons though we hate their errors; we shall love their souls though we loathe and detest their dogmas. And so the breath of our prayers will be sweetened because we turn our faces toward Christ when we pray.”

- Charles H. Spurgeon (1834-1892)

How do you know he doesn't think he's antichrist.. John said the world would love antichrist what does the world say about the pope?

tob
Don't you see how circular your argument is? You're basically saying, "the Pope is the antichrist because the Pope is the antichrist." It's ridiculous.

Meanwhile I demonstrated the following.

1) There is no singular "antichrist."
2) The person who is the antichrist is the one who denies the Father and the Son.

The Pope professes Christ as his savior and therefore does not fall into the category of one who would qualify as an antichrist.
 

JLB

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I don't question a divinely ordained hierarchy. I sometimes question those who claim to be filling those slots.

Jesus said -

25 And He said to them, "The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them, and those who exercise authority over them are called 'benefactors.' 26 But not so among you; on the contrary, he who is greatest among you, let him be as the younger, and he who governs as he who serves. 27 For who is greater, he who sits at the table, or he who serves? Is it not he who sits at the table? Yet I am among you as the One who serves. Luke 22:25-27

Have you been to Churches where there is an entourage of "servants" hovering around the "Pastor" waiting on him or her, hand and foot.

It is a gross misrepresentation of the kingdom of God.


JLB
 

Doulos Iesou

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The deeds of the Nicolaitans were that of setting up a Hierarchy over the people, dividing them into laymen, "those who serve", and leadership, "those who are served".
Evidence for this? You know as Christians we have to be committed to this thing called HONESTY.

The Nicolaitans were guilty of antinomianism, they were lawless as was demonstrated from the accounts of the Early Church Fathers and the Apocalypse of John.

It's like you guys make up evidence for your own position in order to conclude, "the POPE, he's the antichrist!!!"

This is what happens in most Churches today.

Also, it is interesting to note this statement that came out of the Council of Trent -

"If anyone shall say that there is not in the Catholic Church a hierarchy established by the divine ordination, consisting of bishops, presbyters and ministers, let him be anathema.
Council of Trent (trans) XXIII 6." (Century Dictionary.)
You argument is fallacious, you have an assumed premise by which you reach your conclusion. This argument is invalid.
 
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