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the removal the church isnt supportable

n2thelight

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I don’t write this message so I can say, “I’m right and you are wrong”. I write this out of love for my brothers in sisters in Christ. I do not want to see them disappointed or caught off guard as we approach the times that Christ forewarned us of.
You see God has a purpose and a plan for those of us who call ourselves Christians. And it isn’t to be daily hoping and praying for a quick escape from this earth before the Tribulation begins. We are to remain in the field working. Our Father wants to use us to witness against the False Messiah when he appears and to help wake up those who are under his strong delusion.
Are you ready to make a stand against the Forces of Evil?
Instead of making a stand many Christian’s believe that “at any moment” they will suddenly vanish from the earth and the airplanes, cars, and trains that were driven by them will crash and great panic and chaos will proceed.
This is silly.
Not only is it silly, but it is not Biblical. In fact, to believe in the “rapture theory” is to doubt almost every promise that God has made. And it also shows a lack of courage, patience, and faith (Revelation 13:10). Worse yet, it could lead one to worship the False Messiah.
It could lead them to do so because Satan will be the first supernatural being to appear on this earth claiming to be the Christ and those expecting “the rapture” will think that Jesus has come to “rapture” them away! This is very serious beloved.
God’s plan was never included an escape clause.
Let us read the words of Jesus praying to the Father asking Him to protect us here on earth:
I have given them Thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that Thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that Thou shouldest keep the from the evil (one). –John 17:14-15
Notice that Jesus asks the Father not to take us out of the world (rapture) but rather prays that He protect us from the evil one while we are on earth. You know, this verse alone debunks the rapture theory.
Moreover, during the time of our testimony against the antichrist God will protect us like a mother eagle protects her young, as promised in Revelation 12:13-17. Even though we have that protection, as a true Christian we must be willing to make a stand regardless of the price. As it is written:
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? And one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of of your head are all numbered. Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows. –Matthew 10:28-31
Truly you are of more value than many sparrows if you study the word of God to understand His plan. You have nothing to fear and nothing to run from. Could you imagine if David ran away from the Giant Goliath, if Moses feared the wrath of Pharaoh, or if Joshua was afraid to lead the Children of Israel into the Promised Land? You see God never promised them that victory would be easy either, but rather told them to have courage and faith to overcome anything that got in their way.
Do you have the same faith that our Forefather’s had? Or are you fearful and want to fly away?
Beloved, don’t be a draft dodger from the conflict that lies ahead. Stand the gap for your people, be a light unto the world, and show the world what a man, woman, or child of God looks like. Almighty God is counting on you BE A CHRISTIAN OVERCOMER!
“He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved” –Matthew 24:13
God Bless,
Pastor Ben Heath

http://christianovercomers.com/blog/2011/07/06/stand-or-be-raptured/
 

reba

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Even if I am wrong about the rapture (which I do not feel I am), it is not wrong to stay sober, focused and watchful as Jesus instructed us to do. Cling to the Lord only, and what happens happens. He is in control and not us. There is way too much scripture telling us to be ready and watchful, lest he catch us sleeping, to ignore. Time is short. Do not remove your eyes from the Lord.
No matter the views we hold to via eschatology.. You are sure correct here Ed, it is never wrong to stay sober, focused and watchful ! Amen
 
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Sinthesis

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Living as if you could die at any moment is effectively the same as living as if you could be raptured at any moment, for Christians at least. In both cases you're meeting Jesus.
 

Grappler

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You're just bubbling over with the Holy Spirit, aren't you Grappler?

2 Corinthians 3:18
Romans 12:2
Romans 8:9
Acts 7:51
Colossians 3:16
Galatians 5:22-23
I am too humble to admit it...but thank you for noticing.:)
 

Sinthesis

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Living as if you could die at any moment is effectively the same as living as if you could be raptured at any moment, for Christians at least. In both cases you're meeting Jesus.
That's a fair analogy I suppose, but in one case your distracted and in the other you're focused on the Lord as you should be.
Eschatology has been distracting Christians until their deaths for nearly 2000yrs.
 

n2thelight

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So are you saying that I should not look for the Lord to return at any moment. Trying to walk constantly with Him, in faith and obediance? Shall I turn my eyes from our Lord and prepare to fight this anti Christ? No. The moment that Peter took his eyes from the Lord on the lake, he began to sink. I'm not going down with the ship.

Even if I am wrong about the rapture (which I do not feel I am), it is not wrong to stay sober, focused and watchful as Jesus instructed us to do. Cling to the Lord only, and what happens happens. He is in control and not us. There is way too much scripture telling us to be ready and watchful, lest he catch us sleeping, to ignore. Time is short. Do not remove your eyes from the Lord.
He can't and won't return at any moment,we don't know the hour but we are to know the season(signs),He gave us most if not all of them in Matt 24...Yes you are to stay focussed and watch for the signs,especially now,as this is the end time generation......

Take your eye's off the Lord,not for a second,as for fighting the anti christ,that can be done only with the Word,and thats why we should have on the whole armour of God on,in order to stand and fight....It is during this time that true tongues shall be spoken again


Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."

We Christians must be here,to preach against satan,and that will be the job of the elect.....tribulation saints as rapturist call them just won't cut it

Here's my point....satan will(not maybe)come to this earth,pretending to be Christ,that's what the trib is all about,deception....The problem most have is they think satan will be running around killing christians,yet how can he do that while pretending to be Christ,nobody would fall for that.....

Ephesians 6:11 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil."

The raptur is dangerous in that it teaches people that Christ comes first,so when satan comes pretending to be Christ,most will fall for the deception.....
 
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n2thelight

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This statement is not cut and dried. It is a mere interpretation of a man and in no way is scriptural fact. Read, study, pray, and do not take your eyes from the Lord. Are we even as righteous as Paul? Paul thought for him at any moment. He did not go around saying brothers, this and that must occur before our Lord returns. If we humble ourselves and and ask for guidance with an open mind and humble heart, the Lord will reveal more to us through His Holy Spirit.



How can you say Paul never said anything must happen before Christ returns?

II Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"

II Thessalonians 2:2 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come ,except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

Jesus Christ is not gathering anyone to Him, nor is He coming here to earth, except there be a falling away first. The word for "falling away", in the Greek is "apostasy". Jesus told us in His revelation to John, in Revelation 9:11, that "Apollyon" is one of Satan's names, and this name is derived from the word apostasy.

The word "perdition" means "one that perishes". Satan and only Satan has already been condemned to die [to perish] by God. Satan's judgment day has come already back in the first earth age, and he will have no part in the Great White Throne judgment, or any other judgment yet to come. He has already been judged, and sentence by God to death "perdition" [Ezekiel 28 covers this judgment].

What did Paul say again?

Jesus Christ is coming back to this earth, but the saints of Christ will not be gathered to Him until the "son of perdition" [Satan] be revealed first.

Oh ye of little faith.
It teaches us to be sober, focused, and watchful.



It also teaches us to watch out for deception

Matthew 24:4 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you."

This is the number one warning, "Take heed that no man deceive you." Deception will be the foremost thing to guard against in the latter days, that will consummate the end of this age. This means that these events will not happen all at one time, but will take place over a period of time. These warnings or signs that Jesus is about to give us, are the seven seals that are given us in the Book of Revelation.

These are an exact overlay of the seven events, which are the seven seals that we should be watching for today. At the end of Matthew we will include the thirteenth chapter of Mark, which is an overlay of Matthew twenty four.
 

Grappler

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Eschatology has been distracting Christians until their deaths for nearly 2000yrs.
Studying the word of God is a distraction??LOL What a silly thing for a Christian to say. Sounds like a wonderful way to die.:)
 

farouk

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How can you say Paul never said anything must happen before Christ returns?

II Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"

II Thessalonians 2:2 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come ,except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

Jesus Christ is not gathering anyone to Him, nor is He coming here to earth, except there be a falling away first. The word for "falling away", in the Greek is "apostasy". Jesus told us in His revelation to John, in Revelation 9:11, that "Apollyon" is one of Satan's names, and this name is derived from the word apostasy.

The word "perdition" means "one that perishes". Satan and only Satan has already been condemned to die [to perish] by God. Satan's judgment day has come already back in the first earth age, and he will have no part in the Great White Throne judgment, or any other judgment yet to come. He has already been judged, and sentence by God to death "perdition" [Ezekiel 28 covers this judgment].

What did Paul say again?

Jesus Christ is coming back to this earth, but the saints of Christ will not be gathered to Him until the "son of perdition" [Satan] be revealed first.



It also teaches us to watch out for deception

Matthew 24:4 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you."

This is the number one warning, "Take heed that no man deceive you." Deception will be the foremost thing to guard against in the latter days, that will consummate the end of this age. This means that these events will not happen all at one time, but will take place over a period of time. These warnings or signs that Jesus is about to give us, are the seven seals that are given us in the Book of Revelation.

These are an exact overlay of the seven events, which are the seven seals that we should be watching for today. At the end of Matthew we will include the thirteenth chapter of Mark, which is an overlay of Matthew twenty four.
The phrase in 2 Thessalonians 2.3 'that day shall not come' is in italics anyway in the King James. Chapter 2 follows on from chapter 1, where Paul has been talking about the judgment of God upon earth anyway, not the catching up of the church, spoken of by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4.
 
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n2thelight

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The phrase in 2 Thessalonians 2.3 'that day shall not come' is in italics anyway in the King James. Chapter 2 follows on from chapter 1, where Paul has been talking about the judgment of God upon earth anyway, not the catching up of the church, spoken of by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4.

There is no rapture in chapter 4 of 1 Thess

The subject is where are the dead.....

I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

This concern is over "them which are asleep". The concern is over the loved ones that have died and left them, and their decaying bodies are out there in their grave. Paul is saying for us not to be sorry about those Christians who are dead and gone, for that is the concern of the heathen. The heathen's fear comes from their ignorance of God's word, and His promises. The heathen have no hope, for they believe it's over at the burial.

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

If we believe, as a Christian, that Christ set the example for us; so that we will follow as He did, in dying, and rising again, then "to sleep" is to be dead from the flesh body. The Greek is a simple language, for it's structure allows one to be more precise. The subject in the frame of this verse is; "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are." If you're a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believer].

It was on the fortieth day that he ascended back to the Father. When Jesus ascended into heaven, all the souls went with him into heaven also, that had passed on, up to that point in time. The souls of some went to wait for that time of judgment, while others to the glory of God. Those that sleep [are dead] are not out there in a hole in the ground, but all Christians must believe that they arose to be with the Father, just like Christ did also. The dead are with God; all of them. "To be absent from the body [flesh body] is to be present with the Lord." Ecclesiastes 12:7.
Regardless what chapter nine of Ecclesiastes says concerning the flesh body; when this flesh body is dead, the soul is gone from it, and the flesh is left to rot. It is difficult to see how they made a "rapture theory" out of this, when the subject is, "where are the dead?" So we see that when one dies, his soul goes immediately to be with our Heavenly Father. If you believe this, you are not heathen.

I Thessalonians 4:15 "For we say unto you, by the word of our Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent in no wise [precede] them which are asleep."

This, Paul states, is not his words, but it is from the Word God gave to him. Where? Ecclesiastes 12:7, that is where it is written.

"We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord," this is our gathering back to Jesus Christ. "Shall not prevent them", would be better translated, "We are not going to precede [go before] them." We can not precede them for a very simple reason; the dead are already there with God. It is the only logical fact that can come from this. If you do not, or will not believe this, then you believe in soul sleep as the heathen do, and the hope and glory Paul is speaking of, for the Christian, and you are ignorant of God's glory. Whether victorious, or sentenced to hell, all the dead are now with the Father, and not in the ground.

Paul, in another writing, told us exactly; as far as the return of Jesus Christ, when we would be gathered back to Him. That goes also for when we would see those who are asleep [dead], and that exact moment is at the sounding of the seventh [last] trumpet. It will happen very quickly, in the wink [twinkling] of an eye. I Corinthians 15:50-54 tells us we will not go away to any place, but stay right here on earth. We are going to be changed into our new Spiritual bodies, and put off these flesh bodies.

Paul says, "Behold I show you a mystery". In other words, Paul is going to reveal something so we will not be ignorant about it. "We shall not all sleep [die] but we shall all be changed." I Corinthians 15:51 Changed to what? The same thing the dead are, and that is the subject. All those still in the flesh body, at a certain moment [the sounding of the seventh trumpet] will shed this flesh body [corruptible and perishable body] and take on the new "incorruptible" body. Friend, That is the hope and salvation of the Christian.

To document this, in I Corinthians 15:50 we are told that "flesh and blood cannot inherit", or face Jesus Christ in His kingdom. Christ's kingdom will cover the entire earth, and that is why the flesh body must perish. The time of this change comes at the seventh trumpet, which is the last trump, and stated in verse 52, "for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed".

Those who are even dead spiritually will be raised in an incorruptible body. That is a body that doesn't get sick, or grow old; in other words, it is your spiritual body.

Why?

Because the Kingdom of God is where ever Christ is; and at the seventh trump Christ will be on earth with the saints, and setting up his 1000 year millennium kingdom. No flesh and blood body can exist in that kingdom. This is your "gathering back to Christ", and that is what the rapture meaning is all about. It is the time when Christ comes back to earth and the saints that are alive are changed and drawn to Him.

I Corinthians 15:53, "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."
"Mortal" means "liable to die" in the Greek. At the last trump the Christians who stand against Satan, and his system, will have their immortality, however, those who fall for Antichrist and his system, will have to wait until after the 1000 years. "Corruptible into incorruption" is refering to the flesh body changing into the body such as the angels have, a spiritual body. Whereas the eternal condition of the soul is only extended to those who have not yielded to the Antichrist, For they only are the victors at the seventh trump. You put on immortality through Christ who set the way.

I Corinthians 15:54, "So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."
Going back to I Thessalonians 4:15, we know when this will come to pass. It will be "at the last trump", when the alive in Christ are "changed", not flying away.

I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"

The Lord is going to descend, at the seventh trump [the last trump]. Why will the dead in Christ rise first? Because they are already there, and with Him. All we have to do now is go to the book of Revelation, and find out in detail when this will be. We find out what events will occur just prior to this seventh trump sounding, and then when we see these certain events taking place before our eyes, we will know our Lord will return to earth next. Then the trump will sound, and the gathering will take place, and we will be changed from our flesh bodies to our spiritual bodies. And not one day before.

http://www.theseason.org/1thess/1thess4.htm
 

farouk

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There is no rapture in chapter 4 of 1 Thess

The subject is where are the dead.....

I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

This concern is over "them which are asleep". The concern is over the loved ones that have died and left them, and their decaying bodies are out there in their grave. Paul is saying for us not to be sorry about those Christians who are dead and gone, for that is the concern of the heathen. The heathen's fear comes from their ignorance of God's word, and His promises. The heathen have no hope, for they believe it's over at the burial.

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

If we believe, as a Christian, that Christ set the example for us; so that we will follow as He did, in dying, and rising again, then "to sleep" is to be dead from the flesh body. The Greek is a simple language, for it's structure allows one to be more precise. The subject in the frame of this verse is; "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are." If you're a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believer].

It was on the fortieth day that he ascended back to the Father. When Jesus ascended into heaven, all the souls went with him into heaven also, that had passed on, up to that point in time. The souls of some went to wait for that time of judgment, while others to the glory of God. Those that sleep [are dead] are not out there in a hole in the ground, but all Christians must believe that they arose to be with the Father, just like Christ did also. The dead are with God; all of them. "To be absent from the body [flesh body] is to be present with the Lord." Ecclesiastes 12:7.
Regardless what chapter nine of Ecclesiastes says concerning the flesh body; when this flesh body is dead, the soul is gone from it, and the flesh is left to rot. It is difficult to see how they made a "rapture theory" out of this, when the subject is, "where are the dead?" So we see that when one dies, his soul goes immediately to be with our Heavenly Father. If you believe this, you are not heathen.

I Thessalonians 4:15 "For we say unto you, by the word of our Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent in no wise [precede] them which are asleep."

This, Paul states, is not his words, but it is from the Word God gave to him. Where? Ecclesiastes 12:7, that is where it is written.

"We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord," this is our gathering back to Jesus Christ. "Shall not prevent them", would be better translated, "We are not going to precede [go before] them." We can not precede them for a very simple reason; the dead are already there with God. It is the only logical fact that can come from this. If you do not, or will not believe this, then you believe in soul sleep as the heathen do, and the hope and glory Paul is speaking of, for the Christian, and you are ignorant of God's glory. Whether victorious, or sentenced to hell, all the dead are now with the Father, and not in the ground.

Paul, in another writing, told us exactly; as far as the return of Jesus Christ, when we would be gathered back to Him. That goes also for when we would see those who are asleep [dead], and that exact moment is at the sounding of the seventh [last] trumpet. It will happen very quickly, in the wink [twinkling] of an eye. I Corinthians 15:50-54 tells us we will not go away to any place, but stay right here on earth. We are going to be changed into our new Spiritual bodies, and put off these flesh bodies.

Paul says, "Behold I show you a mystery". In other words, Paul is going to reveal something so we will not be ignorant about it. "We shall not all sleep [die] but we shall all be changed." I Corinthians 15:51 Changed to what? The same thing the dead are, and that is the subject. All those still in the flesh body, at a certain moment [the sounding of the seventh trumpet] will shed this flesh body [corruptible and perishable body] and take on the new "incorruptible" body. Friend, That is the hope and salvation of the Christian.

To document this, in I Corinthians 15:50 we are told that "flesh and blood cannot inherit", or face Jesus Christ in His kingdom. Christ's kingdom will cover the entire earth, and that is why the flesh body must perish. The time of this change comes at the seventh trumpet, which is the last trump, and stated in verse 52, "for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed".

Those who are even dead spiritually will be raised in an incorruptible body. That is a body that doesn't get sick, or grow old; in other words, it is your spiritual body.

Why?

Because the Kingdom of God is where ever Christ is; and at the seventh trump Christ will be on earth with the saints, and setting up his 1000 year millennium kingdom. No flesh and blood body can exist in that kingdom. This is your "gathering back to Christ", and that is what the rapture meaning is all about. It is the time when Christ comes back to earth and the saints that are alive are changed and drawn to Him.

I Corinthians 15:53, "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."
"Mortal" means "liable to die" in the Greek. At the last trump the Christians who stand against Satan, and his system, will have their immortality, however, those who fall for Antichrist and his system, will have to wait until after the 1000 years. "Corruptible into incorruption" is refering to the flesh body changing into the body such as the angels have, a spiritual body. Whereas the eternal condition of the soul is only extended to those who have not yielded to the Antichrist, For they only are the victors at the seventh trump. You put on immortality through Christ who set the way.

I Corinthians 15:54, "So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."
Going back to I Thessalonians 4:15, we know when this will come to pass. It will be "at the last trump", when the alive in Christ are "changed", not flying away.

I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"

The Lord is going to descend, at the seventh trump [the last trump]. Why will the dead in Christ rise first? Because they are already there, and with Him. All we have to do now is go to the book of Revelation, and find out in detail when this will be. We find out what events will occur just prior to this seventh trump sounding, and then when we see these certain events taking place before our eyes, we will know our Lord will return to earth next. Then the trump will sound, and the gathering will take place, and we will be changed from our flesh bodies to our spiritual bodies. And not one day before.

http://www.theseason.org/1thess/1thess4.htm
Actually I believe there is a rapture (a 'catching up') described in 1 Thessalonians 4.17.

When the separation which in principle already exists between a world reserved to judgment and the Lord's heavenly, pilgrim people, will become a practical reality, leaving the world in due course for its open and public judgment (no open and public judgment now stands between the church and its Lord), and leaving Israel and its remant for a purging experience.

The rapture of the church is the coming of the Lord for His saints (John 14.3), clearly distinct from the aspect of His coming which is in power and judgment on the earth, of which Paul speaks in 2 Thessalonians 2.
 

n2thelight

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Actually I believe there is a rapture (a 'catching up') described in 1 Thessalonians 4.17.

When the separation which in principle already exists between a world reserved to judgment and the Lord's heavenly, pilgrim people, will become a practical reality, leaving the world in due course for its open and public judgment (no open and public judgment now stands between the church and its Lord), and leaving Israel and its remant for a purging experience.

The rapture of the church is the coming of the Lord for His saints (John 14.3), clearly distinct from the aspect of His coming which is in power and judgment on the earth, of which Paul speaks in 2 Thessalonians 2.
Christ returns to this earth,it's no mid air turnaround back to heaven......
 

n2thelight

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Ya know, I'm feeling like I'm starting to change my mind about you. You simply repeat the same thing and will not answer any of the questions that I asked you to, and I find it very difficult to hold a conversation with you. It's all one sided pertinacious verboseness for the most part. Even though much scripture has been shown to show a distinction between the tribulation and the great tribulation, you refuse to even address that and ignore it, so I'm bowing out and leaving you to your own beliefs.

:wave

I don't recall a question that Ive not answered.......Never did I say that there are not two tribulations,as I know for a fact there are.......The first tribulation is of satan and his deception,the second is of Christ


 

n2thelight

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Mark 13:19 "For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be."

First of all lets take a closer look at the word "affliction" as it is used here, it is "thlipsis" in the Greek, #2347; "Thlipsis, from 2346, pressure (lit. or fig.): affliction, anguish, persecution, tribulation, trouble." In # 2346 we read; "thlibo, thlee'-bo; to crowd, afflict, narrow, throng, suffer tribulation, trouble."

It is the same word in verse twenty that is used for tribulation. It means; "to be pressed and crowded to the point of being persecuted." Jesus is telling us that this tribulation of this false Christ Satan is going to be the greatest persecution of Christians that has ever been. If some so-called scholar tries to tell you that Matthew 24 and Mark 13 took place by some Roman general in 70 A.D., most of the people in the world today have no idea what that general's name was. Remember that the subject and the object of this chapter is "the seven events that take place at the end of this earth age." Those are the signs that consummate the end of this age of the flesh. Beware of false teachings, and listen to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

What this is telling us then is that there are going to be two tribulations coming. The first is by Satan, who bring his tribulation on the believers of Christ, and the second is by Jesus Himself that will bring an end to all evil rudiments of this earth age of the flesh.

II Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. "

"Elements" as used here is # 4747 in Strong's Greek dictionary. "Stoicheion, stoy-khi'-on; of the base of # 4748, something orderly in arrangement (fundamental, initial) constituent (literal), principle, rudiment." Then in #4748 we read; "Stoicheo, stoy-kheh'-o; (to range in regular line), to march in military rank, to conform to virtue and piety."

By this we know that the "elements" are not physical but spiritual. It deals with the order of things that are here on this earth, the very principles and rudiments of the thoughts of mankind at the time of Christ coming. We know that those rudiments are what Satan has established because at the time of Jesus Christ return, Satan is the ruler of this entire earth, and mankind of the earth are worshipping him as God in ignorance. Those rudiments are of the flesh and give pleasure to the flesh body, and glorify Satan and not God.

So Peter is telling us here that on the day of the Lord, or the day that Christ returns, all those things of this earth that glorify Satan, the Antichrist, and even your flesh body will end. However, we know from Paul that when the flesh is done away with, it is changed into another dimension, or form, which is called the spiritual body, or your soul. God is going to purify the earth from the pollution and filth of this earth age, both physical of the flesh and spiritually.

Mark 13:20 "And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom He hath chose, He hath shortened the days."

We know that the seventh trumpet has not blown, because our flesh and blood bodies are still here on earth. These flesh bodies have not been changed into our spiritual bodies that we will be in, at our gathering back to Christ. The flesh is not going to be saved if it would continue for the full seven year period that Daniel had prophesied. As we read above from Revelation 9:5, it was shortened to a five month period. Here Jesus is promising again that it will be shortened. That period of time that Satan will bring his tribulation on the earth was shortened "for the elect's sake". For the sake of those that have eyes to see and ears to hear with understanding His Word. This is why the only final authority is the Word of God. The labor pains that are coming through these tribulations are sign for the birth of a new age.

Mark 13:21 "And then if any man shall say to you, `Lo, here is Christ; or, `Lo, He is there;' believe him not."

If somebody tries to prepare you for any christ or person that is present on this earth while you are still in your flesh body, be careful for he is a liar. As long as you are in the flesh, the True Christ has not returned. You will see supernatural beings while you are in the flesh, for Jesus has already told you in Revelation 12:7-9 that Michael is going to cast out of heaven Satan and all his fallen angels. They are coming to this earth, not in the flesh, but in their angelic forms.

Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels."

Remember that this verse was written and observed from the day of the Lord. From the last day of this earth age, so what seems to be the past in this verse, is future to us living today. This war is going on right now in heaven.

Revelation 12:8 "And prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven."

At the close of the this war, Satan and all his fallen angels will never be in heaven again to accuse you before the throne of God. Why? Because he will be right here on earth causing his tribulation that he will bring with him. God will give Satan the authority to do what he will do during this time of testing in the flesh. Remember that they will look like mankind for man in the flesh is created in the image of God and His angels. Only they will not be limited to the strengths, and knowledge that man has in the flesh. They are supernatural beings.

Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

"Take heed that no man deceive you;" I wonder how many Christians are prepared with the Word of God sealed away in their minds to stand up against such deception. Lies are not deceiving to those that know the truth. So this is the reason that many will be deceived.

Mark 13:22 "For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect."

You can expect to see many supernatural things and acts coming to pass in our generation, Why? Because Jesus Christ has told you that they are coming. These angels are not human, but supernatural, and they have strengths and the ability that human beings don't have. Christ is telling you that when you see these supernatural things being done, don't get carried away with them, for they will be a sign that you are in the final five month of this earth age.

Satan will be cast onto this earth, and he will be out to seduce the minds of all those that are not sealed with the truth of God's Word. Paul talked about being seduced and he worried about us, and he said "I want to present you as a chaste virgin, for I fear that Satan will seduce you." How do you lose you virginity?

II Corinthians 11:1 "Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me."
II Corinthians 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

It isn't hard to understand what Paul is saying here for everyone knows what a virgin is. She is an untouched woman. Paul is saying that he wants to present each of these Corinthians as an chaste virgin to Christ, in as much as we are to be the bride of Christ. Paul is saying that he doesn't want Christ's bride to be messed with by any of these super preachers that are causing the divisions within the churches. If you are one of Satan's whores than you cannot be one of the virgins waiting with your lamp full of oil, which is the truth of God's Word, for the bridegroom which is our Lord Jesus Christ.

II Corinthians 11:3 "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."
The serpent from the garden of Eden was not a snake, but the man Satan. The serpent was one of the roles that he played as the deceiver.....


Mark 13:23 "But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things."

Jesus is telling us that there will be no excuses when He returns. Why? because he has told you everything that will happen in His Word. It is written there and given in many different witnesses, If you have refuse to study His Word than you have chosen to reject His Word. It simply doesn't matter what your preacher says, but what matters is what Christ said. Have you read His Word with understanding?

Mark 13:24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,"

This is the sixth seal that is about to be opened. Lets go back to Revelation and read about the sixth seal.

Revelation 6:12 "And I behold when He had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood."

John looked as watched as the sixth seal was opened. What this is talking about is that there was a great shaking that caused a hazing over the earth, and darkened the sun and the moon. The things that Satan brings will cause a covering over the earth and everything pertaining to Christ will seem quite dim at this time.

Revelation 6:13"And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as the fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind."

Christ is telling you this same thing in Mark 13, so don't lose the continuity between Mark 13 and Revelation 6. We are talking about the signs of the end times, and this is what we are to look out for. The figs cast out of season are those that have been deceived, and taken the wrong messiah out of season. This mighty wind is the mighty Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit. Now lets join Mark 13:24, and Revelation 6:13 together to find the sixth seal.

"But in those days", the days immediately following "that tribulation", the tribulation of Satan. This is exactly what is said in both passages. The darkening of the sun is the same as it is here after the second tribulation.

Mark 13:25 "And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken."

Those stars or fallen angels in heaven are going to fall to earth as untimely figs. The powers that are in heaven will be shaken for good. The powers are principalities of powers, and it is because of them that put on our armor of the gospel to to fight against. It is not the arm of the flesh nor the power of man, but the power of Satan the false Christ and his demonics, or fallen angels that shall fall from heaven to this earth with him.

http://www.theseason.org/mark/mark13.htm

Why would God through His Word warn us about everything that was to happen,if we were not going to be here?????????
 

farouk

Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
17,178
Christian
Yes
Christ returns to this earth,it's no mid air turnaround back to heaven......
'...to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord' (1 Thessalonians 4.17)

We read the Scriptures differently. Blessings.
 

n2thelight

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2007
Messages
2,227
Christian
Yes
'...to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord' (1 Thessalonians 4.17)

We read the Scriptures differently. Blessings.
From there Christ continues to earth arriving at Jerusalem.........Yea I guess we do,and thx for the blessings,back at ya,for regardless of how we see things we are one in Christ......
 

gr8grace

Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2012
Messages
839
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Mark 13:19 "For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be."

First of all lets take a closer look at the word "affliction" as it is used here, it is "thlipsis" in the Greek, #2347; "Thlipsis, from 2346, pressure (lit. or fig.): affliction, anguish, persecution, tribulation, trouble." In # 2346 we read; "thlibo, thlee'-bo; to crowd, afflict, narrow, throng, suffer tribulation, trouble."

It is the same word in verse twenty that is used for tribulation. It means; "to be pressed and crowded to the point of being persecuted." Jesus is telling us that this tribulation of this false Christ Satan is going to be the greatest persecution of Christians that has ever been. If some so-called scholar tries to tell you that Matthew 24 and Mark 13 took place by some Roman general in 70 A.D., most of the people in the world today have no idea what that general's name was. Remember that the subject and the object of this chapter is "the seven events that take place at the end of this earth age." Those are the signs that consummate the end of this age of the flesh. Beware of false teachings, and listen to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

What this is telling us then is that there are going to be two tribulations coming. The first is by Satan, who bring his tribulation on the believers of Christ, and the second is by Jesus Himself that will bring an end to all evil rudiments of this earth age of the flesh.

II Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. "

"Elements" as used here is # 4747 in Strong's Greek dictionary. "Stoicheion, stoy-khi'-on; of the base of # 4748, something orderly in arrangement (fundamental, initial) constituent (literal), principle, rudiment." Then in #4748 we read; "Stoicheo, stoy-kheh'-o; (to range in regular line), to march in military rank, to conform to virtue and piety."

By this we know that the "elements" are not physical but spiritual. It deals with the order of things that are here on this earth, the very principles and rudiments of the thoughts of mankind at the time of Christ coming. We know that those rudiments are what Satan has established because at the time of Jesus Christ return, Satan is the ruler of this entire earth, and mankind of the earth are worshipping him as God in ignorance. Those rudiments are of the flesh and give pleasure to the flesh body, and glorify Satan and not God.

So Peter is telling us here that on the day of the Lord, or the day that Christ returns, all those things of this earth that glorify Satan, the Antichrist, and even your flesh body will end. However, we know from Paul that when the flesh is done away with, it is changed into another dimension, or form, which is called the spiritual body, or your soul. God is going to purify the earth from the pollution and filth of this earth age, both physical of the flesh and spiritually.

Mark 13:20 "And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom He hath chose, He hath shortened the days."

We know that the seventh trumpet has not blown, because our flesh and blood bodies are still here on earth. These flesh bodies have not been changed into our spiritual bodies that we will be in, at our gathering back to Christ. The flesh is not going to be saved if it would continue for the full seven year period that Daniel had prophesied. As we read above from Revelation 9:5, it was shortened to a five month period. Here Jesus is promising again that it will be shortened. That period of time that Satan will bring his tribulation on the earth was shortened "for the elect's sake". For the sake of those that have eyes to see and ears to hear with understanding His Word. This is why the only final authority is the Word of God. The labor pains that are coming through these tribulations are sign for the birth of a new age.

Mark 13:21 "And then if any man shall say to you, `Lo, here is Christ; or, `Lo, He is there;' believe him not."

If somebody tries to prepare you for any christ or person that is present on this earth while you are still in your flesh body, be careful for he is a liar. As long as you are in the flesh, the True Christ has not returned. You will see supernatural beings while you are in the flesh, for Jesus has already told you in Revelation 12:7-9 that Michael is going to cast out of heaven Satan and all his fallen angels. They are coming to this earth, not in the flesh, but in their angelic forms.

Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels."

Remember that this verse was written and observed from the day of the Lord. From the last day of this earth age, so what seems to be the past in this verse, is future to us living today. This war is going on right now in heaven.

Revelation 12:8 "And prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven."

At the close of the this war, Satan and all his fallen angels will never be in heaven again to accuse you before the throne of God. Why? Because he will be right here on earth causing his tribulation that he will bring with him. God will give Satan the authority to do what he will do during this time of testing in the flesh. Remember that they will look like mankind for man in the flesh is created in the image of God and His angels. Only they will not be limited to the strengths, and knowledge that man has in the flesh. They are supernatural beings.

Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

"Take heed that no man deceive you;" I wonder how many Christians are prepared with the Word of God sealed away in their minds to stand up against such deception. Lies are not deceiving to those that know the truth. So this is the reason that many will be deceived.

Mark 13:22 "For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect."

You can expect to see many supernatural things and acts coming to pass in our generation, Why? Because Jesus Christ has told you that they are coming. These angels are not human, but supernatural, and they have strengths and the ability that human beings don't have. Christ is telling you that when you see these supernatural things being done, don't get carried away with them, for they will be a sign that you are in the final five month of this earth age.

Satan will be cast onto this earth, and he will be out to seduce the minds of all those that are not sealed with the truth of God's Word. Paul talked about being seduced and he worried about us, and he said "I want to present you as a chaste virgin, for I fear that Satan will seduce you." How do you lose you virginity?

II Corinthians 11:1 "Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me."
II Corinthians 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

It isn't hard to understand what Paul is saying here for everyone knows what a virgin is. She is an untouched woman. Paul is saying that he wants to present each of these Corinthians as an chaste virgin to Christ, in as much as we are to be the bride of Christ. Paul is saying that he doesn't want Christ's bride to be messed with by any of these super preachers that are causing the divisions within the churches. If you are one of Satan's whores than you cannot be one of the virgins waiting with your lamp full of oil, which is the truth of God's Word, for the bridegroom which is our Lord Jesus Christ.

II Corinthians 11:3 "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."
The serpent from the garden of Eden was not a snake, but the man Satan. The serpent was one of the roles that he played as the deceiver.....


Mark 13:23 "But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things."

Jesus is telling us that there will be no excuses when He returns. Why? because he has told you everything that will happen in His Word. It is written there and given in many different witnesses, If you have refuse to study His Word than you have chosen to reject His Word. It simply doesn't matter what your preacher says, but what matters is what Christ said. Have you read His Word with understanding?

Mark 13:24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,"

This is the sixth seal that is about to be opened. Lets go back to Revelation and read about the sixth seal.

Revelation 6:12 "And I behold when He had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood."

John looked as watched as the sixth seal was opened. What this is talking about is that there was a great shaking that caused a hazing over the earth, and darkened the sun and the moon. The things that Satan brings will cause a covering over the earth and everything pertaining to Christ will seem quite dim at this time.

Revelation 6:13"And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as the fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind."

Christ is telling you this same thing in Mark 13, so don't lose the continuity between Mark 13 and Revelation 6. We are talking about the signs of the end times, and this is what we are to look out for. The figs cast out of season are those that have been deceived, and taken the wrong messiah out of season. This mighty wind is the mighty Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit. Now lets join Mark 13:24, and Revelation 6:13 together to find the sixth seal.

"But in those days", the days immediately following "that tribulation", the tribulation of Satan. This is exactly what is said in both passages. The darkening of the sun is the same as it is here after the second tribulation.

Mark 13:25 "And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken."

Those stars or fallen angels in heaven are going to fall to earth as untimely figs. The powers that are in heaven will be shaken for good. The powers are principalities of powers, and it is because of them that put on our armor of the gospel to to fight against. It is not the arm of the flesh nor the power of man, but the power of Satan the false Christ and his demonics, or fallen angels that shall fall from heaven to this earth with him.

http://www.theseason.org/mark/mark13.htm

Why would God through His Word warn us about everything that was to happen,if we were not going to be here?????????
So you can warn people that only by believing on His Son will he rapture you out of these thing that are to come upon the earth.

Another reason he gives these warnings is to leave a written account to those left behind. And to those who you witnessed too,that did not believe you, will have an account to solidify that what you told them was true.

These warnings are for an unbelieving, Christ rejecting world. Not for believers and Lovers of Christ.
 

Grappler

Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2013
Messages
789
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
'...to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord' (1 Thessalonians 4.17)

We read the Scriptures differently. Blessings.
Yes we will meet the Lord in the air as he is returning to Earth. Surely you don't use this to support somekind of pre-tribulation escape do you? I refer you to Matthew chapter 24:29-31 and you will see that Jesus himself said that he was returning AFTER the tribulation of those days. Blessings.:)
 

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