the removal the church isnt supportable

[JLB]

that would contradict then the idea of the saints then being risen when he comes back.

did you know the first chialism was before the resurrection? jesus said on the last day there would be resurrection. when is the last day?

The last Day of this age.

That's why its called the end of the age.


JLB

 

[reba]

Joh_6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Joh_6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Joh_12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.


Read these in context I see nothing about the last day of this age just last day ... To me that means the end of time as we know it....No need for sun He is the Light

 

[JLB]

Joh_6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Joh_6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Joh_12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.


Read these in context I see nothing about the last day of this age just last day ... To me that means the end of time as we know it....No need for sun He is the Light

Its either the last day of this age or the last day of the age to come.

The writer of the book of Hebrews alludes to this as He writes -

7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: "Today, if you will hear His voice, 8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness, 9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years. 10 Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, 'They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.' 11 So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest.' " 12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, 15 while it is said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion. Hebrews 3:7-14

Key phrase - while it is called "Today,".

In the age to come we will never die, we will have entered into His rest, being sons of the resurrection.


JLB

 

[n2thelight]

Originally Posted by n2thelight
I have no idea whatsoever you are talking about,but Paul said at the 7th trump which is the last,we shall ALL be changed............That change is from flesh to spirit,period!!!!!!!!!!

ok then what happens to the sinners that enter the millennium? whom gave birth to them?

Nobody will be born during the millennium,when Christ returns,the age of flesh will be over........

 

[jasoncran]

ok so then there wont be bodies of flesh? really hmm so with what bodies will the sinners have?

 

[jasoncran]

jlb, what will the mil saints be told to believe? the gospel or the law of moses? if its the former then you have a church. if its the later then you have jewry and also the idea that the church failed to be the light God planned for it to be.

 

[jasoncran]

Maybe so, but the last day is the last day, to me associated with the last trump. O death, where is thy sting? I guarantee there is sting left when you observe funerals today, and there is death prevalent during the millennium; the death of a child at an hundred years of age, and yet the last enemy destroyed is death, and that is the time those remaining in the grave will be resurrected, mortality will put on immorality; many are already in heaven at that time.

That to me begs the answer: if there is a last trump, will there be previous trumps. In other words are all seen in heaven at the same time by John?

well then if all are in heaven then there can be no millennium. that is what some amil teaches., the problem then is that for you is the righteous that die will need a new body. if at the end of it why does it mention no saints be raised? the resurrection of the saints at his coming then 1000 break then a judgment of the rest of the dead?

if the mil saints are Christians and under the cross's work then they are what? saints? if so then they are a church.

 

[Eugene]

ok so then there wont be bodies of flesh? really hmm so with what bodies will the sinners have?

I have no idea what body we will have other than we will all be changed, they will be incorruptible, and we will have put on immortality. There is the time Peter saw something of this.

Matthew 17:1-3 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. How did Peter recognize Moses and Elias? Weren't they disembodied spirits?

Another incident is Jesus' angel. Now John was known as the friend of Jesus, and yet he was ready to worship this angel as being Jesus I suppose, and yet he was our brethren as a messenger (Angel).

Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Revelation 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

 

[Eugene]

well then if all are in heaven then there can be no millennium. that is what some amil teaches., the problem then is that for you is the righteous that die will need a new body. if at the end of it why does it mention no saints be raised? the resurrection of the saints at his coming then 1000 break then a judgment of the rest of the dead?

if the mil saints are Christians and under the cross's work then they are what? saints? if so then they are a church.

I do not know all the answers other than what we have written to us, and then if I'm wrong after the hope I have isn't realized, I will simply change my mind at that time. The saints I see in heaven are those of the Church and they as we are the elect: Colossians 3:12 "Put on therefore, as the elect of God . ." This in no way detracts from the fact that those of Israel that become saved are also the elect, but they are not the Church. Dispensationally that ended with Revelation 3:16, "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."

 

[jasoncran]

so the sinners whom didn't believe when he came or in the trib, with what will they eat. an infant of what? the idea of the feast of tabernacles/sukkot implies a food offering. hmm so jesus has a body when he comes back but we Christians don't. the trib saints will have what?

 

[jasoncran]

uhm, I am of isreal.

so Paul of Benjamin? and the others of isreal that are in this rapture are no longer of the nation of isreal?

sheesh, deleniate what isreal is? is it a land of Hebrews that do what?does following the torah and shabat and all that have anything to do what with Hebrews?do we not have markings? ie circumcision? the reading of the torah?

 

[Eugene]

so the sinners whom didn't believe when he came or in the trib, with what will they eat. an infant of what? the idea of the feast of tabernacles/sukkot implies a food offering. hmm so jesus has a body when he comes back but we Christians don't. the trib saints will have what?

I do not quite understand your question, but I think you're asking if those entering the millennium as elect or sinners will have bodies to eat with. Those are the ones that endured unto the end that they might be physically saved from the great tribulation time, else no flesh would be saved, and they are on the earth; not heaven. Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

 

[jasoncran]

ok so then what will they be under the law? so when jesus comes back to judge? in his message its believe before you die or before I come or else the hellfire will be your home.

the problem here is that the Ezekiel temple and its nature and chapter imply sin offerings. will that be the way to the cross?

so your saying that if any sinner just rides out the seven year trib, they wont be judged?

I quote malachi 4

For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.
4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse

now then is this fulfilled? some of this was with john the Baptist but has the wicked been judged yet?

 

[JLB]

jlb, what will the mil saints be told to believe? the gospel or the law of moses? if its the former then you have a church. if its the later then you have jewry and also the idea that the church failed to be the light God planned for it to be.

Those are your ideas and opinions, not mine.

Here is what The word says -

6 It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light; The lights will diminish. 7 It shall be one day Which is known to the Lord-- Neither day nor night. But at evening time it shall happen That it will be light. 8 And in that day it shall be That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem, Half of them toward the eastern sea And half of them toward the western sea; In both summer and winter it shall occur. 9 And the Lord shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be-- "The Lord is one," And His name one. 10 All the land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. Jerusalem shall be raised up and inhabited in her place from Benjamin's Gate to the place of the First Gate and the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananeel to the king's winepresses. 11 The people shall dwell in it; And no longer shall there be utter destruction, But Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited. 12 And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths. 13 It shall come to pass in that day That a great panic from the Lord will be among them. Everyone will seize the hand of his neighbor, And raise his hand against his neighbor's hand; 14 Judah also will fight at Jerusalem. And the wealth of all the surrounding nations Shall be gathered together: Gold, silver, and apparel in great abundance. 15 Such also shall be the plague On the horse and the mule, On the camel and the donkey, And on all the cattle that will be in those camps. So shall this plague be. 16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. Zechariah 14:6-15

Did you ever stop and think that the feast of tabernacles may actually be something more that what you can conceive with your mind.

You seem to think if you yourself can't rationalize the scripture with your mind, then you just explain the scripture away or cast doubt upon it.


Describe for me this scripture, what will this be like, when has this occurred -

It shall be one day Which is known to the Lord-- Neither day nor night.



How about this one -

4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads.
5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever. Revelation 22:5

What does God's face look like?


JLB

 

[Eugene]

ok so then what will they be under the law? so when jesus comes back to judge? in his message its believe before you die or before I come or else the hellfire will be your home.

the problem here is that the Ezekiel temple and its nature and chapter imply sin offerings. will that be the way to the cross?

Please allow me to ask what you think the law's purpose was. Will the only sacrifice (Jesus) given to man change during the millennium? What would their sacrifices accomplish? The law exposes sin and shows their need; it will be the rod of iron. There remains in that time two ministrations.

2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, . .
2 Corinthians 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

There is but one name given among men whereby we may be saved and that is Jesus. The physical salvation from death by enduring till the end leaves the person spiritually as they are before entering the millennium. I do not know if you're familiar with the context of Romans Chapters Nine, Ten, and Eleven applying to Israel in the past, today, and the future, but Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved is the way to spiritual salvation for that time also.

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Who besides Jesus kept the law?

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

All sin is to be judged; our sin was taken by Jesus on the cross, but sinners will be judged at the great white throne judgment by Jesus according to John 5:22 "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son," and this will occur at the end of the millennium.

Revelation 20:11-12 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. I might bring to mind again that those that were not of God at the end of the millennium Satan deceives to compass the camp of the saints in Revelation 20:9. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. They are certainly dead.

Those things that happen before the Day of the Lord are prior to the time Jesus takes His own throne in Heaven. Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. Revelation 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. Thus begins the Lord's Day.

 

[jasoncran]

the law includes the what for atonement. its not just dos and donts. if one sins it lists what must be done to repent. uhm, if I die then my Lord's day was before that wasn't it?

so the idea of paul's teaching that the temple and its priests was a limited offer that the levitical priesthood is better then the law. the law brought death to the jew, not the gentile.

what commands was given to noah? a gentile?

if you are trying to say the temple will be the way to get the sinners to the cross. well that's one new version of the gospel then? hmm

 

[jasoncran]

ok. kinda hard if its also mentioned in isiah during the time of the return of isreal that he would also be their light and yet moons and the shabat is mentioned.

And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the Lord out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the Lord, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord.
21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the Lord.
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither

For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron: I will also make thy officers peace, and thine exactors righteousness.
18 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.
19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.

hmm moons and shabat? what does the moon need to work? the SUN!

so isreal's land is forever? and btw once again the idea of a spiritual son is also found in the Talmud and its the same what you attempt to me . the jews believe that at the end of the messianic era that G-D will destroy creation and move isreal to the heavenly isreal with the eternal sun, etc. hmm isreal after all is about the souls and not the land.hmm

so I could see that but im asking for a why you say that about the millennium where its said in the same language as 2 peter 3?

 

[Eugene]

Jasoncran - the law includes the what for atonement. its not just dos and donts. if one sins it lists what must be done to repent. uhm, if I die then my Lord's day was before that wasn't it?

Eugene - Romans 5:11 . . we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. Again, our and their salvation is complete only in Christ. No amount of further sacrifice adds to the finished work of Jesus.

The Lord's Day is the time of Jesus' reign, and it begins with His taking of His own throne. He presently sits in His Father's throne. The dividing viewpoint is Revelation 4:1 to where John was taken in Spirit where he was given three views; that which is from that point in time, and which was concerning the Church, and which is to come hereafter. Regardless the time of our death, the Lord's Day, the Day of the Lord, or in that Day remains without interruption.

Jasoncran - so the idea of paul's teaching that the temple and its priests was a limited offer that the levitical priesthood is better then the law. the law brought death to the jew, not the gentile.

what commands was given to noah? a gentile?

Eugene - Build the ark in Genesis 6:14? Genesis 6:8 Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD just as we who receive Christ.

Jasoncran - if you are trying to say the temple will be the way to get the sinners to the cross. well that's one new version of the gospel then? hmm

Eugene - God's purpose in that age is especially dealing with the Jew, but He will also reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment just as He does today, and according to Isaiah 19:24-25 we read of the effect of that. "24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land: Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance."

The law has its reward and judgment affecting everything the nations do, but it will not give life.

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Zechariah 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

 

[jasoncran]

epic fail. the gentiles were never under the law. if they were then show me where noah was circumcised and commanded by God to do so?

remember there will be an unsaved and unregenerated levite offering the meat and grain offering and he must first offer up a sin sacrifice per the law for himself. that cant be. thus the law does return in your eyes.
so the law is greater then grace in this era. that's odd Hebrew says that ministration of Christ is better then the priest of aaron as the law couldn't redeem.

 

[Eugene]

epic fail. the gentiles were never under the law. if they were then show me where noah was circumcised and commanded by God to do so?

remember there will be an unsaved and unregenerated levite offering the meat and grain offering and he must first offer up a sin sacrifice per the law for himself. that cant be. thus the law does return in your eyes.
so the law is greater then grace in this era. that's odd Hebrew says that ministration of Christ is better then the priest of aaron as the law couldn't redeem.

You did not ask what law Noah had, but what command, and that was in Genesis 6:14. Thanks for your time.
:waving