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What was Paul teaching in 2 Thessalonians 2?

JLB

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you crack me up there are many pre trib teachers that could stand nose to nose with in scripture to prove their point. they have just as much right in belief as you do.. BTW i lean more toward mid trib. BUT in the end it will all happen the way God wants it to

There is no scripture in the Bible that teaches a Pretrib Rapture.


None.


The resurrection and rapture happen at His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15




The destruction of the wicked also happen at His coming.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8



It’s crystal clear.


The coming of the Lord is His second coming.


He puts an end to all rule at His coming, when He returns to gather His people at the resurrection and rapture.


For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
1 Corinthians 15:22-24


His coming marks the end of the age.





JLB
 

ezra

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There is no scripture in the Bible that teaches a Pretrib Rapture.


None.


The resurrection and rapture happen at His coming.
says you there is no scripture that says when exactly he will come
 

for_his_glory

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its only false because it does not line up with your belief
Of course it's false as it does not line up with what I believe according to what has already been written. Man adds to scripture of that which is not there. They ignore the scriptures that state that Christ returns on the last day as He returns in the air and destroys the beast and false prophet by the brightness of His coming as He only has to speak the words of their destruction casting them into the lake of fire.

Scripture states this happens immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 

JLB

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says you there is no scripture that says when exactly he will come

Sure there is.


Please reconsider your statement.



Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31




JLB
 

for_his_glory

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says you there is no scripture that says when exactly he will come
These scriptures give the exact time by Jesus giving us signs to watch for His coming. Not in hours or minutes, but in times of the day.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

None of us knows when the son of perdition will take his seat in Jerusalem, but when he does we know it will be for 3 1/2 years. After the 3 1/2 years are finished then the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven who comes in the clouds the same way He ascended up to heaven.
 
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Nathan12

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They ignore the scriptures that state that Christ returns on the last day as He returns in the air and destroys the beast and false prophet by the brightness of His coming as He only has to speak the words of their destruction casting them into the lake of fire.
Christians need to understand that there is a definite and logical SEQUENCE OF EVENTS which are all included in the metaphorical "last day" (a period in excess of 1,000 years), and is not the same as "the last days" (plural). What you have presented above is a jumble of events seemingly happening on the same day. But here is the progression seen in Scripture (not in the doctrines of men):

1. The Resurrection/Rapture
2. The Revelation of the Antichrist
3. The Tribulation
4. The Abomination of Desolation
5. The Great Tribulation
6. The shaking of the heavens and the earth
7. The Second Coming of Christ
8. The battle of Armageddon
9. The destruction of the Antichrist
10. The establishment of the Millennium
 

JLB

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Christians need to understand that there is a definite and logical SEQUENCE OF EVENTS which are all included in the metaphorical "last day" (a period in excess of 1,000 years), and is not the same as "the last days" (plural). What you have presented above is a jumble of events seemingly happening on the same day. But here is the progression seen in Scripture (not in the doctrines of men):

1. The Resurrection/Rapture
2. The Revelation of the Antichrist
3. The Tribulation
4. The Abomination of Desolation
5. The Great Tribulation
6. The shaking of the heavens and the earth
7. The Second Coming of Christ
8. The battle of Armageddon
9. The destruction of the Antichrist
10. The establishment of the Millennium
The resurrection
The rapture
The destruction of the antichrist


All three take place at His coming.


This is crystal clear, and irrefutable in the scriptures.


The resurrection and rapture happen at His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15




The destruction of the wicked also happen at His coming.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8


The coming of the Lord is His second coming.


He puts an end to all rule at His coming, when He returns to gather His people at the resurrection and rapture.


For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
1 Corinthians 15:22-24


His coming marks the end of the age.





JLB
 

for_his_glory

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Christians need to understand that there is a definite and logical SEQUENCE OF EVENTS which are all included in the metaphorical "last day" (a period in excess of 1,000 years), and is not the same as "the last days" (plural). What you have presented above is a jumble of events seemingly happening on the same day. But here is the progression seen in Scripture (not in the doctrines of men):

1. The Resurrection/Rapture
2. The Revelation of the Antichrist
3. The Tribulation
4. The Abomination of Desolation
5. The Great Tribulation
6. The shaking of the heavens and the earth
7. The Second Coming of Christ
8. The battle of Armageddon
9. The destruction of the Antichrist
10. The establishment of the Millennium
Again no scripture and now you are adding two tribulations! I'm not adding scripture to what I am about to post as from Rev 8:6 - Rev Chapter 21 is all in sequence.

When the son of perdition takes his literal seat in the holy place of Jerusalem Jesus warned us to flee as He has a place prepared for us wherever we go to, Matthew 24:15-21; Rev 12:14.

God's protection is absolute to those who escape into the wilderness and trust in Christ to help meet their needs. Just as God told Moses to strike the rock for fresh water, Exodus 17:1-7, and sending manna down from heaven and providing Quail for meat, Exodus 16, so will be the same in the end of days, Philippians 4:19.

Nut shell scenario of what will happen during the first six trumpets of Rev Chapter 8-11 that leads up to the seventh trumpet and the events of Chapter 13 with the beast out of the sea and out of the earth.

God’s wrath is poured out into the world as chastisements for disobedience, but also a warning that man needs to repent and turn back to God before the door of salvation is closed forever.

Hail and fire can be likened unto meteors that fall from the sky. A third of the trees and all the green grass are burned up which makes a third part of the world with a shortage of oxygen in the air that is created from the carbon dioxide from the trees and living plants. Seeing that this is Global the intense fire and smoke from all the trees and grass burning can travel for miles causing much more damage throughout the nations. The trees that produce various healthy foods for our well being will become scarce. The green grasses that would probably include crops of wheat, barley, corn and so forth will be destroyed causing a shortage in food. The animals we depend on as a food source will also die as they are left without vegetation they need to live on.

This great mountain burning with fire could be another meteor or even a series of meteors sent down from heaven at one time, but on an extremely larger scale as the third part of the sea is destroyed along with sea life and the third part of the ships that sit in it. The third part of the sea turned to blood by reason of all the animal life that is killed and those men, women and children who are on these ships that are destroyed. Take into consideration the disease that would spread from all the rotted sea life that is rotting away washing up on the shore and the flesh of those who were burned along with the ships.

These ships will more than likely be types of fuel tankers, merchant, fishing and luxury cruises ships traveling the waters. With the third of these ships being destroyed means a third part of the world’s fuel and food supply would be destroyed. There is only one ocean, but divided by four regions as being the Pacific Ocean, Atlantic Ocean, Arctic Ocean, and the Indian Ocean. This would be like the four corners of the earth as being North, South, East and West. The only difference between the ocean and the sea is that the ocean is much larger and feeds into the 108 seas around the world that also flow into our lakes and streams that provide us with fresh drinking water and other sources of food.

With the third part of the sun, moon and stars being darkened this will affect mans source of electricity and heat that is vital to keep a certain degree of the earth warm, and generated power in homes, hospitals and manufacturing plants including nuclear reactors.

Agriculture and navigation would be hard pressed as it takes the solar power from the sun to run the solar cells that produces the energy needed to run farming machinery and trucks to take the produce to manufacturing plants where the produce is then distributed to market.

Vehicles such as cars, ambulances, planes, trains and the list goes on need an energy source from the sun in order to run their engines. The darkness of the third part of the day would be roughly around eight hours of daylight being lost and total darkness of night as the moon and stars are illuminated by the sun at night. A flashlight would be useless to see in the dark as it needs energy from the sun to run the battery that turns the light on.

This much darkness would cause people to panic in the streets creating chaos as the love of many will wax cold, Matthew 24:12. Riots would break out causing looting and lose of life as those who have not will do anything in desperation to take from those who have much. IMO Marshal law will be enforced as we see history repeat itself with many Christians taken captive that did not flee and killed as they refuse to denounce Christ and take the mark. They will also die a martyr's death, Rev 6:9-11, especially vs. 11. Also we are not to fear what man can do to us, Matthew 10:28.

This is where the mark of the beast comes in during the seventh trumpet as this NWO is a Luciferian system of economics, political and false religious power that gives power to the beast out of the earth being the son of perdition. By lying signs and wonders will deceive the nations (people) into taking its mark. IMO I think the mark is the thoughts of our mind and the actions of our hands reaching out to this beast that promises peace, safety and provision as many will bow down and worship this beast who claims to be God. Luciferian reign on eath will Christ then

After the 3 1/2 years of this Luciferian reign on earth that will wear out the saints then every eye will see Christ coming in the clouds with His army of angels that are then sent out to gather those saints who are alive at His coming and those who sleep in their graves. We are gathered up to the clods as we receive our new glorified bodies in order to meet Jesus in the air. From the air He destroys the beast and false prophet by the brightness of His coming only speaking their destruction casting them into the lake of fire. Satan is bound for a time as Jesus sets out to destroy all the nations that followed after the beast. Satan is then released in a final attempt to destroy the saints as he sends his angels out to surround the camp of the saints, but the angels are consumed by fire and Satan cast into the lake.Then comes God's great white throne judgment and the books are opened and all are judged. Then this present heaven and earth are burned up and made new again and the New Jerusalem is ushered down from heaven where we will be with the Lord forever.
 
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dianegcook

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You may have read it a hundred times but with a preconceived bias. That is not reading it. So let's examine that verse: Now we beseech you, brethren, [1] by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [2] by our gathering together unto him...

So let's examine those two phrases separately:
[1] What is this "coming of the Lord"? It is clearly spelled out in John 14:1-3, in which He says "I WILL COME AGAIN":
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Do you see any mention of a Tribulation, or do you hear the words of comfort "Let not your heart be troubled"?

[2] What is this by our gathering together unto him...
Does it not correspond to and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also? Does it not correspond to Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words? (1 Thess 4:17,18)

Again, words of comfort, not dire warning of the Tribulation. And yet you continue to insist that 2 Thess 2:1 is not about the Rapture. I don't mean to be rude, but that is called wilful blindness.
Nathan, you quoted John 14:1-3
Let's take a look at that.
Jesus was talking to His disciples and of course us, Jesus was speaking about His death, John 13:36
Telling them to not be troubled, in My Father's house are many mansions.
Mansions mean ABODE, ,Strong's #3438, Greek
I will come again, and receive you unto Myself.
John 14:5
Thomas Saith unto Him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest, and how can we know the way?

The disciples were not raptured.

Read on,
John 14:16-23
And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may ABIDE with you for ever.
Even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him, but ye know Him, for He DWELLETH WITH YOU, and shall BE IN YOU.
I will not leave you comforter, I WILL COME TO YOU.

Yet, a little while, and the world seeth Me no more, but ye see Me, because I live, ye shall live also.
At that day ye shall know that I AM IN MY FATHER, and YE IN ME, and I IN YOU.
If a man love Me, he will keep My Words, and My Father will love him, and WE WILL COME UNTO him, and make OUR ABODE with him.

We rest in Jesus, our abode.

I really don't see this as being the rapture , imho.
 

dianegcook

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INTRODUCTION: Paul wrote 2 Thessalonians 2 to ease the minds of the Christians at that time who had been needlessly alarmed by a rumor that the Rapture had already occurred. Which would have meant that Christ had left these Thessalonians behind, even though they expected to be gathered up at His coming (which was always regarded as imminent). Therefore Paul showed them that there is a definite sequence of events before the Rapture and the revelation of the Antichrist (which comes after the Rapture). There is no mention of the Tribulation in this passage, which is clear evidence that the Rapture occurs before the Tribulation, while the Tribulation occurs after the Antichrist takes control of the world for 42 months (Revelation 13).

THE RAPTURE IS AN ESTABLISHED BIBLE TRUTH
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him [NOTE: The word “coming” (Greek parousia) is used here for the Rapture, and it is also used in verse 8 for the Second Coming of Christ. This passage itself establishes that the Rapture and the Second Coming are two distinct events]
THE DAY OF CHRIST IS THE DAY OF THE RAPTURE
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [NOTE: The Day of Christ is NOT the Day of the Lord (LORD). The Day of the Lord corresponds to the Great Tribulation. Only the Received Text has “the day of Christ” in this verse, and it will not be found in the modern versions]
THE GREAT APOSTASY MUST COME BEFORE THE RAPTURE
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,.. [NOTE: We are currently seeing the Great Apostasy within Christendom. Its culmination is not too far distant. The Emergent Church and Ecumenism are manifestationS of the falling away. Christendom will be absorbed into Mystery Babylon through the Ecumenical Movement, which asserts that all religions are valid]
THE ANTICHRIST COMES AFTER THE FALLING AWAY
...and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; [NOTE: It is a part of God's plan to allow the Antichrist to manifest himself to the unbelieving world. But His power and authority will be limited to 42 months only. Therefore the Pope or the Papacy cannot be the Antichrist]
THERE MUST BE A TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM FOR THE ANTICHRIST
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. [NOTE: Orthodox Jews in Israel are currently working on plans for the construction of the third temple in Jerusalem very soon. This temple must be standing in order for the prophecies concerning the Antichrist to be fulfilled]
PAUL HAD BEEN TEACHING THESE THINGS BEFORE WRITING THIS
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? [NOTE: There are several passages in the New Testament which speak of the Rapture. It is in fact the Resurrection/Rapture and the culmination of salvation for the Church. All the saints will be glorified at the Resurrection/Rapture]
THERE IS A SPECIFIC TIME FOR THE REVELATION OF THE ANTICHRIST
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. [NOTE: Just as there was a specific time for the revelation of the Christ (Jesus of Nazareth), there is a specific time for the revelation of the Antichrist, a renegade Jew claiming to be God and Christ]
THE HOLY SPIRIT IS RESTRAINING THE REIGN OF THE ANTICHRIST
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:... [NOTE: The Mystery of Iniquity is the reality of God allowing Satan and his evil spirits a degree of freedom even though Christ has destroyed the power of the devil. God has also assigned 3 ½ years to Satan and the Antichrist to do their worst on earth. After that they will be cast into the Lake of Fire at the right time]
THE HOLY SPIRIT MUST BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY FIRST
...only he who now letteth [restrains] will let [restrain], until he be taken out of the way.
[NOTE: Since the true Church is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, when the divine Restrainer is taken out of the way, the Church is also taken out of the way, which means that they are in Heaven while Satan rules on earth for 3 ½ years. This is the strongest proof that the Rapture occurs before the Tribulation. The words “church” and “churches” will not be found in Revelation 4-18]
THEN THE WICKED ANTICHRIST WILL BE REVEALED
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed... [NOTE: The Antichrist is the epitome of wickedness, evil, and blasphemy on earth. A man totally controlled and possessed by Satan]
BUT THE ANTICHRIST WILL BE DESTROYED BY CHRIST AT HIS SECOND COMING
...whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:[NOTE: The Second Coming of Christ will be at least seven years after the Rapture. The first 3 ½ years will consist of the Tribulation. The last 3 ½ years will be the Great Tribulation]
THE ANTICHRIST IS EMPOWERED BY SATAN TO DO MIRACLES
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, [NOTE: Revelation 13 provides more insight and details regarding this. Satan does have the ability to perform counterfeit miracles through the Antichrist and the False Prophet]
THOSE DECEPTIVE MIRACLES ARE MEANT TO DECEIVE THE UNRIGHTEOUS
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [NOTE: This portion of Scripture is meant to be a warning to those who are not saved. If they reject Christ and the Gospel, they will not be saved, but they will be deceived thoroughly and then damned]
GOD WILL SEND STRONG DELUSION ON AN UNBELIEVING WORLD
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [NOTE: God desires the salvation of all mankind, but those who resist God, resist the Gospel, and resist the Holy Spirit will be placed under a strong delusion. It is a dangerous thing to resist the Holy Spirit when the Gospel is preached]
THOSE WHO SUBMIT TO THE ANTICHRIST WILL BE DAMNED
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. [NOTE: This is made clear in Revelation 14:9-11: And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast [the Antichrist] and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignatio
I also disagree about the Holy Spirit being taken away.
Let's take a look at that.
2Thess.2:3-8
Let no man DECEIVE you by any means, for that day, ( the day of the gathering) shall not come, except there come a falling away FIRST, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

Clearly stated here, that the gathering will happen after the falling away, apostasy, and Satan being revealed.

In verse 7, I believe this was your opinion of the Holy Spirit being taken away.

My opinion is different.
Michael letteth. In Rev.12:7-9 Michael fought against the Dragon and his angels, and they were cast out of heaven.
Until Satan be taken out of the way. The subject is referring to Satan sitting in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God, in verse 4.
Verse 8
That wicked be revealed,
Verse 3
That Day shall not come until that son of perdition be revealed.
So the gathering takes place AFTER the Son of perdition is revealed.

The temple,
It could be the temple we have now, in Jerusalem, doesn't matter, because it will be thrown down, not one stone left upon another, Christ will destroy it.
 

Nathan12

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The disciples were not raptured.
And that's your evidence that John 14:1-3 is not about the Rapture? Of course they were not raptured, and it is still future event. But "we rest in Jesus and He is our abode" is not even a proper exegesis of what He actually stated. So kindly read that passage for what it actually says.

"I go to prepare a place for you" is clearly about Christ returning to Heaven, not Him coming to indwell His people.

"I will come again" was a promise to literally and physically return for His saints (whether immediately or later would be determined by the completion of the Church) from Heaven, and then return to Heaven where there is a literal heavenly city -- the New Jerusalem -- and within it are those literal mansions (abodes). And thus we have several passages later which fill out the doctrine of the Resurrection/Rapture.

The New Jerusalem is the present home of all the saints (both OT and NT) and at the Resurrection/Rapture all the saints will be glorified and return to Heaven for the Marriage of the Lamb (the Church being the Bride of Christ).
 

dianegcook

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And that's your evidence that John 14:1-3 is not about the Rapture? Of course they were not raptured, and it is still future event. But "we rest in Jesus and He is our abode" is not even a proper exegesis of what He actually stated. So kindly read that passage for what it actually says.

"I go to prepare a place for you" is clearly about Christ returning to Heaven, not Him coming to indwell His people.

"I will come again" was a promise to literally and physically return for His saints (whether immediately or later would be determined by the completion of the Church) from Heaven, and then return to Heaven where there is a literal heavenly city -- the New Jerusalem -- and within it are those literal mansions (abodes). And thus we have several passages later which fill out the doctrine of the Resurrection/Rapture.

The New Jerusalem is the present home of all the saints (both OT and NT) and at the Resurrection/Rapture all the saints will be glorified and return to Heaven for the Marriage of the Lamb (the Church being the Bride of Christ).
Hi Nathan
No, it is not my evidence, I have plenty, but it was your evidence, I thought.
In verse 18 it states,
I will not leave you comfortless, I WILL COME TO YOU.
Verse 23, We will COME UNTO HIM, and make OUR ABODE with him.

Jesus had to leave, so that the Holy Spirit would come.
His Spirit abiding in us.
Yes, He is /was preparing a place, abode, for us, especially the disciples and the 12 patriarchs .
Rev.21:12-14
12 gates, names written thereon, the names of the 12 tribes.
12 foundations, names of the 12 Apostles of the Lamb.

To each his own
 

dianegcook

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And that's your evidence that John 14:1-3 is not about the Rapture? Of course they were not raptured, and it is still future event. But "we rest in Jesus and He is our abode" is not even a proper exegesis of what He actually stated. So kindly read that passage for what it actually says.

"I go to prepare a place for you" is clearly about Christ returning to Heaven, not Him coming to indwell His people.

"I will come again" was a promise to literally and physically return for His saints (whether immediately or later would be determined by the completion of the Church) from Heaven, and then return to Heaven where there is a literal heavenly city -- the New Jerusalem -- and within it are those literal mansions (abodes). And thus we have several passages later which fill out the doctrine of the Resurrection/Rapture.

The New Jerusalem is the present home of all the saints (both OT and NT) and at the Resurrection/Rapture all the saints will be glorified and return to Heaven for the Marriage of the Lamb (the Church being the Bride of Christ).
Just wanted to add, that you said, in 2Thess.2:1-3
That the rapture and the 2nd coming are 2 events...

It clearly states in verse 3, THAT DAY shall not come,
It doesn't state that day and another day, that day, one day not 2.

Wish you would reconsider, care about ya, When Satan comes, showing himself as Christ, his message might be, gather unto me, so I can rapture you.
Just about everyone will run to him, every nation,every religion, even nonbelievers.
Luke 12:40
Be ye therefore ready also, for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
When would one think not? They think Christ is already here.
Matt.24:44
In Matt.24:23-26
They will say, Christ is here, or there, DO NOT GO, BELIEVE IT NOT....

1Thess.5:3
For when they shall say, Peace and safety, then sudden destruction cometh upon them.
Satan will say peace, Dan.8:25, by peace shall destroy MANY.
Cause the destruction of his soul.
Christ wants you to remain faithful, watch watchman, so the thief will not steal your soul.
1Thess.5:4-6
But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
We are the children of light..
Let us not sleep, as do others, but let us watch and be sober.
You don't sleep on a watch. Watch for the thief....
 

for_his_glory

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"I will come again" was a promise to literally and physically return for His saints (whether immediately or later would be determined by the completion of the Church) from Heaven, and then return to Heaven where there is a literal heavenly city -- the New Jerusalem -- and within it are those literal mansions (abodes). And thus we have several passages later which fill out the doctrine of the Resurrection/Rapture.

The New Jerusalem is the present home of all the saints (both OT and NT) and at the Resurrection/Rapture all the saints will be glorified and return to Heaven for the Marriage of the Lamb (the Church being the Bride of Christ).
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

What you have said does not line up with what has already been written. Why do you believe theories over that of scripture.
 
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Nathan12

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What you have said does not line up with what has already been written.
What I have said simply does not line up with your misunderstanding of Bible prophecies and the logical and spiritual sequence of events. That is why you have posted Scriptures (in this post) which have absolutely nothing to do with the Resurrection/Rapture, neither are they all jumbled up as one event in the Bible. I simply cannot understand why Christians resist following the sequence of events which God has plainly laid out. And then to spiritualize what is plainly literal simply adds to the confusion.
 

Nathan12

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Wish you would reconsider, care about ya, When Satan comes, showing himself as Christ, his message might be, gather unto me, so I can rapture you.
This is hilarious, since the Church will be absent when the Antichrist takes control on earth!
 

Nathan12

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In verse 18 it states,
I will not leave you comfortless, I WILL COME TO YOU.
And that is a different matter altogether. Christ presently comes to every believer and indwells every believer. Therefore Paul says "Christ in you the hope of glory". By no means does this cancel out the Bible doctrine of the Rapture of the Church, which again is distinct from the Second Coming of Christ.

We should try to put things in their proper context, since the Bible is not a textbook of Systematic Theology. You will note, particularly in the Prophets, that various events at different times are all presented as though they are all happening at the same time. That is why we need to discern what is written, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
 

for_his_glory

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What I have said simply does not line up with your misunderstanding of Bible prophecies and the logical and spiritual sequence of events. That is why you have posted Scriptures (in this post) which have absolutely nothing to do with the Resurrection/Rapture, neither are they all jumbled up as one event in the Bible. I simply cannot understand why Christians resist following the sequence of events which God has plainly laid out. And then to spiritualize what is plainly literal simply adds to the confusion.
In post #29 and 35 I gave the actual events in order that will happen before the second coming of Christ on the last day as what is already written. The order of the trumpets are from one to seven, Rev 8:6 - Rev chapter 22.

I notice you use websites to study from for your information just like I use to years ago, but no longer as so much of what they teach does not line up with scripture no matter how hard I tried to make it line up.

I would never tell anyone what they believe is erroneous or that they have no understanding of logical or Spiritual things. All we can do is to discuss our indifference's by sharing the scriptures in the hope we will all come to unity in truth.
 

for_his_glory

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Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

From Matthew 24:4-26 Jesus explains everything that will happen from that time forward including the abomination of desolation that will stand in the holy place being in the holy city of Jerusalem that Daniel prophesied of in Daniel chapters 7-9. Paul also taught about the same abomination that causes desolation in 2 Thessalonians 3:3-12 that will wear out the saints of God.

Jesus proceeds to tell His disciples as they sat on the mount of Olives with Him what sign to look for of His second coming and of the end of the world, This is Jesus answer below.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus also said in Matthew 24:36-44 that no one knows the day or hour of His second coming other than it will be likened as in the days of Noah when the flood came and many were swept away, but to watch and be prepared for His return so He does not come to you as a theif in the night.

I truly can not understand why pretribbers refuse to believe the answers Jesus gave to His disciples that day as they all sat on the mount of Olives.
 

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