[_ Old Earth _] Theistic Evolution

[Cygnus]

God gives you the freedom to chose Him or reject Him. That is always a choice open to you.



Putting anything before God separates you from Him. Let Him be God and you won't be troubled by it, any more.

interesting concept.....because a christian reads the bible and believes it where God said He formed Adam from the dust..then Eve from Adams rib.....you reject God? You can reject God for actually believing what the bible says?

Unless you filter the bible through evolutionism....you reject God? Please do get real Barbarian.

 

[Barbarian]

You NEVER addressed the issue presented above. All you did was a Mr. Bojangles dance and claim..."there is no conflict between God and evolution."
The above addressed the issue and squarely contradicted your opinion.

No, you've just invented some things, and demanded that evolutionary theory include them. All of it was merely strawmanery you invented.
Let's take a look...

If evolutionism is true..[/quote]

Remember, "evolutionism" is a creationist strawman. Evolution is a phenomenon.

and brought about man...

As you learned, God created evolution, which brought forth man's body. Our souls are given directly by God.

then sin and death could not have spread to all via ONE man. Rom 5:12

http://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Rom 5.12

Nothing in evolutionary theory, or in observed evolution contradicts this.

All the nations couldn't have been made from one man. Acts 17:26
Adam would not have been formed first, and then Eve. 1 Tim 2:13
Man would have come from a woman...1st Cor 11:8

http://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/1 Cor 11.8

Nothing in evolutionary theory denies any of that. However, Christians have always known that Genesis is about real people, but allegory in many parts.

As written in Genesis the first man Adam...would not have become a living being...as Adam would have already been alive.

You miss what God is saying. He gives man an immortal soul directly even though man's body is produced from nature.

The following linage would have to turn from biblical fact to...allegory...

Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, Heli,Matthat, Levi, Melki, Jannai, Joseph,Mattathias, Amos, Nahum, Esli, Naggai,Maath, Mattathias, Semein, Josech, Joda,Joanan, Rhesa, Zerubbabel, Shealtiel, Neri,Melki, Addi, Cosam, Elmadam, Er,Joshua, Eliezer, Jorim, Matthat, Levi,Simeon, Judah, Joseph, Jonam, Eliakim,Melea, Menna, Mattatha, Nathan, David, Jesse, Obed, Boaz, Salmon, Nahshon,Amminadab, Ram, Hezron, Perez, Judah,Jacob, Isaac, Abraham, Terah, Nahor,Serug, Reu, Peleg, Eber, Shelah,Cainan, Arphaxad, Shem, Noah, Lamech,Methuselah, Enoch, Jared, Mahalalel, Kenan,Enosh, Seth, Adam, God.

The Bible actually presents two different lineages for Jesus. They can't both be literally true. Which one is not figurative,and what is your evidence for that?

 

[Barbarian]

Interesting concept.....because a christian reads the bible and realizes that it's an allegory where God said He formed Adam from the dust..then Eve from Adams rib.....you reject God? You can reject God for actually believing what the bible says?

Unless you filter the bible through creationism....you reject God?

Why not just accept it His way and stop disparaging the faith of Christians who do?

 

[Barbarian]

So can creationists be saved? Of course they can. God didn't make accepting the way He created things, a salvation issue. It doesn't matter, unless it becomes an idol to the point that one denies the faith of Christians who don't accept the new doctrine of creationism.

 

[Cygnus]

The Bible actually presents two different lineages for Jesus. They can't both be literally true. Which one is not figurative,and what is your evidence for that?

Ah, one linage is of Joseph while the other is of Mary. That's basic theology 101 Barbarian....THEY BOTH CAN BE LITERALLY TRUE.. The funny thing is...in order to save face...you now must defend your position.

 

[Cygnus]

So can creationists be saved? Of course they can. God didn't make accepting the way He created things, a salvation issue. It doesn't matter, unless it becomes an idol to the point that one denies the faith of Christians who don't accept the new doctrine of creationism.

lets see....Total number of creationist saved....percentage wise, just about all of them
.....Total number of evolutionist saved....percentage wise, considering most are atheist....I would venture to say, not many.

Oh, just for the record, you can't lose your salvation once saved.

 

[Cygnus]

Cygnus:As written in Genesis the first man Adam...would not have become a living being...as Adam would have already been alive.

Barbarian: You miss what God is saying. He gives man an immortal soul directly even though man's body is produced from nature.

Cygnus: I missed what God was saying? The bible says Adam became a living being. In other words....a pile of dust...now alive. A living being. No need to add to Gods words.

 

[Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
The Bible actually presents two different lineages for Jesus. They can't both be literally true. Which one is not figurative,and what is your evidence for that?

Ah, one linage is of Joseph while the other is of Mary.

That's not what it says. Both say they are of Joseph's side.

That's basic theology 101 Barbarian....

That's your new addition to scripture to make it more acceptable to you.

Matthew 1:1 This is the genealogya]">[a] of Jesus the Messiahb]">[b] the son of David, the son of Abraham:
2 Abraham was the father of Isaac,
Isaac the father of Jacob,
Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
3 Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,
Perez the father of Hezron,
Hezron the father of Ram,
4 Ram the father of Amminadab,
Amminadab the father of Nahshon,
Nahshon the father of Salmon,
5 Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,
Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,
Obed the father of Jesse,
6 and Jesse the father of King David.
David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah’s wife,
7 Solomon the father of Rehoboam,
Rehoboam the father of Abijah,
Abijah the father of Asa,
8 Asa the father of Jehoshaphat,
Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram,
Jehoram the father of Uzziah,
9 Uzziah the father of Jotham,
Jotham the father of Ahaz,
Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,
10 Hezekiah the father of Manasseh,
Manasseh the father of Amon,
Amon the father of Josiah,
11 and Josiah the father of Jeconiahc]">[c] and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.
12 After the exile to Babylon:
Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
13 Zerubbabel the father of Abihud,
Abihud the father of Eliakim,
Eliakim the father of Azor,
14 Azor the father of Zadok,
Zadok the father of Akim,
Akim the father of Elihud,
15 Elihud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.


Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
24 Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph,
25 Which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Amos, which was the son of Naum, which was the son of Esli, which was the son of Nagge,
26 Which was the son of Maath, which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Semei, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Juda,
27 Which was the son of Joanna, which was the son of Rhesa, which was the son of Zorobabel, which was the son of Salathiel, which was the son of Neri,
28 Which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Addi, which was the son of Cosam, which was the son of Elmodam, which was the son of Er,
29 Which was the son of Jose, which was the son of Eliezer, which was the son of Jorim, which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi,
30 Which was the son of Simeon, which was the son of Juda, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Jonan, which was the son of Eliakim,
31 Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David,
32 Which was the son of Jesse, which was the son of Obed, which was the son of Booz, which was the son of Salmon, which was the son of Naasson,
33 Which was the son of Aminadab, which was the son of Aram, which was the son of Esrom, which was the son of Phares, which was the son of Juda,
34 Which was the son of Jacob, which was the son of Isaac, which was the son of Abraham, which was the son of Thara, which was the son of Nachor,
35 Which was the son of Saruch, which was the son of Ragau, which was the son of Phalec, which was the son of Heber, which was the son of Sala,
36 Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech,
37 Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan,
38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Notice that both claim to be through Joseph, not Mary. You changed that to make it work your way.

 

[Cygnus]

Cygnus:then sin and death could not have spread to all via ONE man. Rom 5:12

Batbarian:Nothing in evolutionary theory, or in observed evolution contradicts this.

Cygnus: Hmmmmmm, now here I though populations evolved. Surely if populations evolved..there could still be a sinless population of people on the planet earth.

 

[Cygnus]

Barbarian: Nothing in evolutionary theory denies any of that. However, Christians have always known that Genesis is about real people, but allegory in many parts.

Cygnus: Barbarian, you do know the authors of the bible..that is INSPIRED authors...spoke of Adam and Eve as literal people.

 

[Barbarian]

lets see....Total number of creationist saved....percentage wise, just about all of them
.....Total number of evolutionist saved....percentage wise, considering most are atheist....I would venture to say, not many.

Oh, just for the record, you can't lose your salvation once saved.

No, that's wrong. God gives you free will, and you can turn from Him any time you like.

 

[Cygnus]

Interesting concept.....because a christian reads the bible and realizes that it's an allegory where God said He formed Adam from the dust..then Eve from Adams rib.....you reject God? You can reject God for actually believing what the bible says?

Unless you filter the bible through creationism....you reject God?

Why not just accept it His way and stop disparaging the faith of Christians who do?

Oh my....I can't stop LAUGHING....seriously. I filter my bible through creationism?

The BIBLE says....For Adam was formed first, then Eve....That's what it says. I didn't write it. What do I filter my bible through? The answer is pretty simple. THE BIBLE...not a fossil.

 

[Barbarian]

Cygnus:then sin and death could not have spread to all via ONE man. Rom 5:12

Barbarian chuckles:
Nothing in evolutionary theory, or in observed evolution contradicts this.

Hmmmmmm, now here I though populations evolved. Surely if populations evolved..there could still be a sinless population of people on the planet earth.

So you just invented a new story, and insist that science has to accept it as true? Nice try.

 

[Barbarian]

Barbarian: Nothing in evolutionary theory denies any of that. However, Christians have always known that Genesis is about real people, but allegory in many parts.

Barbarian, you do know the authors of the bible..that is INSPIRED authors...spoke of Adam and Eve as literal people.

So your argument is that it's impossible to have an allegory that includes real people? Let's see how you support that idea. Tell us about it. Why not just let God do it His way, and stop trying to revise His word to fit your new doctrine?

 

[Cygnus]

No, that's wrong. God gives you free will, and you can turn from Him any time you like.

God doesn't give you free-will concerning salvation. If you remember correctly...God chooses us. We don't choose God. The Father places us in Jesus' hands...and no one can snatch them from Jesus' hands.

Sure, you can turn...but it doen't mean you lose your salvation. It simply means you were deceived. Evolutionist are deceived.

 

[Cygnus]

Barbarian: Nothing in evolutionary theory denies any of that. However, Christians have always known that Genesis is about real people, but allegory in many parts.



So your argument is that it's impossible to have an allegory that includes real people? Let's see how you support that idea. Tell us about it. Why not just let God do it His way, and stop trying to revise His word to fit your new doctrine?

Mt argument is that Paul will not instruct women on how to act in church based upon an allegorical event that NEVER happened. The funny thing is, is that you must also argue away that point.

 

[Cygnus]

Barbarian:So you just invented a new story, and insist that science has to accept it as true? Nice try.

Cygnus: Google "population evolve" Barbarian...You'll see I didn't invent it. Personally I would have thought you would have already googled it...it would have helped keep the egg off your face.

 

[Barbarian]

Hmmmmmm, now here I though populations evolved. Surely if populations evolved..there could still be a sinless population of people on the planet earth.

Barbarian chuckles:
So you just invented a new story, and insist that science has to accept it as true? Nice try.

Google "population evolve" Barbarian...You'll see I didn't invent it.

Nothing that I found says anything about the story you're peddling. Sorry. You just made up something and want science to say it for you.

 

[Cygnus]

Barbarian chuckles:
So you just invented a new story, and insist that science has to accept it as true? Nice try.



Nothing that I found says anything about the story you're peddling. Sorry. You just made up something and want science to say it for you.

I find it difficult to discuss issues with you when you keep avoiding the points of topic.

 

[Barbarian]

I find it difficult to discuss issues with you when you keep avoiding the points of topic.

Well, you know how illogical Barbarians are. But even an illogical old Barbarian can spot a strawman. Try criticizing the theory as it is, not as you wish it was.