[_ Old Earth _] Evolutionism denies the fall.

[Cygnus]

As the title suggest strongly, evolutionism denies the fall as well as the resulting sin nature.

Evolutionism and the Bible don't agree with each other despite what certain sects of christianity want you to believe.

The fall of the human race caused by our first father Adam directly contradicts the so-called science of evolutionism. Evolutionism would require something such as a "sin mutation" to occur which drives us towards sin rather than a single act of disobedience in which the Bible describes.

But, the question is....how does evolutionism, or as some people like to say, descent with modification, explain our sin nature and the need for our Lord and Savior, Christ Jesus?

If the human populations evolved from lesser primates rather than beginning with just one man, Adam, then how does that account for all men sinning and falling short? Certainly there would be a current population not effected by the "sin mutation".

 

[Edward]

As the title suggest strongly, evolutionism denies the fall as well as the resulting sin nature.

Evolutionism and the Bible don't agree with each other despite what certain sects of christianity want you to believe.

The fall of the human race caused by our first father Adam directly contradicts the so-called science of evolutionism. Evolutionism would require something such as a "sin mutation" to occur which drives us towards sin rather than a single act of disobedience in which the Bible describes.

But, the question is....how does evolutionism, or as some people like to say, descent with modification, explain our sin nature and the need for our Lord and Savior, Christ Jesus?

If the human populations evolved from lesser primates rather than beginning with just one man, Adam, then how does that account for all men sinning and falling short? Certainly there would be a current population not effected by the "sin mutation".

You're exactly right. Evolutionism has been blown out of the water. Only the over-educated will question it. Be prepared for pages and pages of scientific mumbo jumbo talking fossils and what some man said rather than scripture...

 

[Cygnus]

You're exactly right. Evolutionism has been blown out of the water. Only the over-educated will question it. Be prepared for pages and pages of scientific mumbo jumbo talking fossils and what some man said rather than scripture...

I really want to discuss the origination of sin in humans....but, the Theo-evo's here won't touch that issue with a 22 1/2 foot long pole.
When they start to discuss how sin originated...they realize they contradict scripture....and find the need to insert what some man said.

 

[Jim Parker]

As the title suggest strongly, evolutionism denies the fall as well as the resulting sin nature.

The theory of evolution does not address human behavior. It is an attempt to explain the development of the variety of species on living things on earth.
IT does not address any theological concept.
Taking the lead from your statement, one could just as "reasonably" say that mathematics, physics, chemistry, and astronomy all deny the fall as well as the sin nature.
The scriptures reveal the origin of the fall and the sin nature because they are key issues of man's relationship with God.
Evolution is silent about anything having to do with man's relationship with God.
It is an attempt to understand the evidence found in nature.
So don't get your nickers in a bunch because some people don't believe in God.
There will always be people who don't believe in God.
What does scripture say about how we should deal with them?
“Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven". Mat 5:16

 

[Barbarian]

As the title suggest strongly, evolutionism denies the fall as well as the resulting sin nature.

As you learned, that is completely wrong. There's nothing whatever in evolutionary theory that denies the fall. Some forms of extreme creationism do, but even most creationists accept that much.

Evolutionism and the Bible don't agree with each other

Evolution, being part of God's creation is entirely consistent with the Bible despite what certain sects of Christianity want you to believe.

The fall of the human race caused by our first father Adam directly contradicts the so-called science of evolutionism.

Evolutionism is a strawman invented by creationists because evolutionary theory has been directly confirmed by observation.

Evolutionism would require something such as a "sin mutation" to occur which drives us towards sin rather than a single act of disobedience in which the Bible describes.

Which is why scientists accept evolution, but not the strawman of "evolutionism."

But, the question is....how does evolutionism, or as some people like to say, descent with modification, explain our sin nature and the need for our Lord and Savior, Christ Jesus?

You guy invented it. Up to you to come up with an explanation for it.

If the human populations evolved from lesser primates rather than beginning with just one man, Adam, then how does that account for all men sinning and falling short?

There's nothing at all in evolutionary theory that rules out a population being descended from a single pair. In fact, there are documented instances of this. As you should know, original sin came about by an act of disobedience by Adam and Eve.

Certainly there would be a current population not effected by the "sin mutation".

In the creationist doctrine of "evolutionism", perhaps. Not in reality.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Evolutionism denies the single man/woman beginning. By doing so they deny the fall.

 

[Barbarian]

I really want to discuss the origination of sin in humans....but, the Theo-evo's here won't touch that issue with a 22 1/2 foot long pole.

Already told you about it. Came about by the disobedience of Adam and Eve from whom we all descended.

When they start to discuss how sin originated...they realize they contradict scripture....

Not in any Bible I've read.

and find the need to insert what some man said.

Actually, it's "what some woman said." Ellen G. White, a self-professed "prophetess", invented YE creationism, based on a series of visions she had.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_G._White

 

[Barbarian]

Evolutionism denies the single man/woman beginning. By doing so they deny the fall.

Fortunately, evolutionary theory does not deny it. Nor does observed evolution rule out an original pair of ancestors. As I said, there are known examples of that.

"Evolutionism" is a straw man invented by frustrated creationists.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Would evolutionism be " Christianity + the theory of Evolution", or any person the accepts the theory of Evolution?

 

[Jim Parker]

Evolutionism denies the single man/woman beginning. By doing so they deny the fall.

They don't deny it; they ignore it.

 

[Milk-Drops]

They don't deny it; they ignore it.

It could also be that some sect see the Garden of Eden story as symbolic more then completely factual.

 

[Jim Parker]

It could also be that some sect see the Garden of Eden story as symbolic more then completely factual.

There are many who see Gen 1:1 through 11:9 as metaphor and/or commentary of earlier pagan mythology.
Say so and the literalists will come out of the woodwork to "fix" your view.

iakov the fool

 

[Milk-Drops]

There are many who see Gen 1:1 through 11:9 as metaphor and/or commentary of earlier pagan mythology.
Say so and the literalists will come out of the woodwork to "fix" your view.

iakov the fool

Yeah, even many Jewish sects treat it more about an Exile story. Literal issue can come at me all they want. I apreciate the old testament more for the cultural stories than anything else.

 

[Jim Parker]

Yeah, even many Jewish sects treat it more about an Exile story. Literal issue can come at me all they want. I apreciate the old testament more for the cultural stories than anything else.

In their book, Before Abraham Was, Kikawada and Quinn did an excellent job of demonstrating the high level of skill with which the authors of Gen 1-11 had woven together the different traditions presented in a single, unitary work.
Unfortunately, the book is out of print and, while it is available used on Amazon, it could cost as much as $75!

iakov the fool

 

[Milk-Drops]

In their book, Before Abraham Was, Kikawada and Quinn did an excellent job of demonstrating the high level of skill with which the authors of Gen 1-11 had woven together the different traditions presented in a single, unitary work.
Unfortunately, the book is out of print and, while it is available used on Amazon, it could cost as much as $75!

iakov the fool

I'll scour the libraries in my area and see if anyone in my state has it. ( got a librarian friend with book connections :D)

 

[Jim Parker]

I'll scour the libraries in my area and see if anyone in my state has it. ( got a librarian friend with book connections :biggrin)

I see 2 new ones for $20 on Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-lis...1496123776&sr=1-1&keywords=before+abraham+was

 

[jasonc]

In their book, Before Abraham Was, Kikawada and Quinn did an excellent job of demonstrating the high level of skill with which the authors of Gen 1-11 had woven together the different traditions presented in a single, unitary work.
Unfortunately, the book is out of print and, while it is available used on Amazon, it could cost as much as $75!

iakov the fool

Jews teach that and still don't buy the theory of evolution.chabad.org ,aish.com

Genesis is an apologetic to Abraham and after his story and others told to isreal then us.I don buy old earth nor the toe but the first book was written to a certain group and by a that group who passed it on orally or written and by tradition moses penned it after Horeb.

 

[Barbarian]

Would evolutionism be " Christianity + the theory of Evolution", or any person the accepts the theory of Evolution?

It's a straw man. Has very little to do with evolution or evolutionary theory. I think it's mostly misconceptions by people who don't know anything about it.

 

[Barbarian]

The important thing for us, is that whether you accept evolution or follow creationism, it does not matter to your salvation. There are good and God-loving people on all sides of the question. Let us not find new ways to divide His people.

 

[Cygnus]

Evolution is silent about anything having to do with man's relationship with God.

Jim, I only quoted this portion...because it's the part that addressed the issue.
It's true, evolution is silent. So silent about the fall man has to invent reasons for the fall that deviate from what the Bible teaches...Hence the problem for the Theo-evo's.