Innerfire89
Member
the sinners prayer is Lord have mercy on me a sinner man a prayer from the heart Romans 10:10
Its not that confessing faith is what saves, but that faith is present in the heart and the mouth gives the evidence
Strengthening families through biblical principles.
Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.
Read daily articles from Focus on the Family in the Marriage and Parenting Resources forum.
the sinners prayer is Lord have mercy on me a sinner man a prayer from the heart Romans 10:10
In the heart, in the mouth and by your works.Its not that confessing faith is what saves, but that faith is present in the heart and the mouth gives the evidence
You mean that works are evidence of true faith? I just wanted to make sure I'm understanding correctly.In the heart, in the mouth and by your works.
You have heard the saying, "Talk is cheap."
James said, "Faith without works is dead".
That's not how the scriptures read.You mean that works are evidence of true faith? I just wanted to make sure I'm understanding correctly.
If someone says they have faith in Jesus but does not strive to do as Jesus commanded, that person is deceived or a liar.You mean that works are evidence of true faith? I just wanted to make sure I'm understanding correctly.
Yes, but what I'm asking is, is justification by faith alone or faith plus works? Not if faith and works can be separated.If someone says they have faith in Jesus but does not strive to do as Jesus commanded, that person is deceived or a liar.
Faith in Jesus means that you have submitted to Him as your Lord and, since He is your Lord, you do as He commanded.
What did Jesus command?
(1) Love God. (Mat 22:37-38)
(2) Love your neighbor. (Mat 22:39)
(3) Even love your enemy.
(4) Bless those who curse you.
(5) Do good to those who hate you.
(6) Pray for those who despitefully use you and persecute you. (Mat 5:44)
(The Biblical definition of 'love" can be found at 1 Cor 13:4-8a)
(7) Do good works. (Mat 5:16) Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
(Biblical examples of "good works" can be found at Mat 25:35-36)
(8) Forgive those who sin against you if you want to be forgiven your sins. (Mat 6:15)
(9) Be merciful if you want to receive mercy. (Mat 5:7)
And many more
IN short; if someone has faith then then he should act like he has faith and it should be obvious to everyone.
It's like when Jesus told the paralytic, “Son, be of good cheer; your sins are forgiven you.” and the pharisees had a fit because only God can forgive sins.
So Jesus asked them:
“For which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Arise and walk’? But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—then He said to the paralytic, “Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.”
And he arose and departed to his house. (Mat 9:2 -7)
In a similar manner, it's easy to say; "I'm a Christian." It's easy to talk like a Christian and to quote scripture like a Christian (especially around other Christians) but it's an entirely other thing to actually ACT like a Christian.
(1Jo 4:20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can[he love God whom he has not seen?)
Consider the lives of St. Francis of Assisi and Mother Theresa of Calcutta.
They didn't just talk the talk.
We shouldn't either.
iakov the fool
Were not on the same page here, of course the indwelling of the Holy Spirit causes the believer to be Christ like.That's not how the scriptures read.
Indwelling through the seal of God's holy spirit till the end of time is what informs the new creature, the redeemed former sinner who is now no longer dead in their sin but alive in the body of Christ, who is the holy spirit that is God the father, is what communicates to and leads that new creature, the Christian, to serve God's purpose in this world.
They are led to therefore work on behalf of the Kingdom, which is within them as Christ said as per Luke 17:21.
Working for the kingdom being compelled or led by the holy spirit isn't a matter of what secures that person being in Christ. Rather, it is evidence of their being alive in Christ. Because they are doing the work of God at God's leading. It is proof of their being in Christ because it is an example of being Christ like being Christ was giving, charitable, loving, toward people during his earthly ministry. Demonstrating by his own actions the power of God indwelling what to others appeared as a mere man.
AH! That's easy.Yes, but what I'm asking is, is justification by faith alone or faith plus works? Not if faith and works can be separated.
Actually, it ENABLES the believer to be Christ like. The believer has to exert his own effort to conform to Jesus' image.of course the indwelling of the Holy Spirit causes the believer to be Christ like.
AH! That's easy.
Here's what the Bible says: (Jas 2:24) You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Good works are preordained for us to do by God, of course we are willing to do them and to obey Christ out of love, but it's all within God's planning what works we will do.Actually, it ENABLES the believer to be Christ like. The believer has to exert his own effort to conform to Jesus' image.
For example:
Eph 4:17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of[fn] the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind,
Eph 4:28 Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need.
Rom 6:19b For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
Rom 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Rom 12:9-19 Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good. Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another; not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer; distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality.
Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,”says the Lord.
And there are many, many more such instructions which, if the Holy Spirit just made us do these things automatically, a lot of the NT would be totally unnecessary.
So, yes, as the Bible specifically says: ...as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.(Jas 2:26)
As I am sure that you are aware, nothing that is dead can give life. Dead, workless, faith cannot give eternal life.
iakov the fool
That's what scripture tells us.We agree that faith without works is dead, if you love Christ you obey him.
That understanding is completely contrary to the teaching of scripture.my understand of James 2:24 is that man is justifed before other men by their works,
to late it is derailed..I'm sure this debate has been batted around enough already and I don't want to derail the thread. So I will simply say that in my understand of James 2:24 is that man is justifed before other men by their works, his works show is faith to be true.
Before God we are justifed by faith alone because of Christ works, but that faith is not alone.
There are some variants that append the teachings of Emmanuel as to impart works sustain faith and by proxy then commute the damned unto salvation through those mechanisms. However, I believe in following the teachings of Emmanuel Christ first we have to concur with what Christ taught and ultimately died to seal as the Father's new covenant with the worlds people.Were not on the same page here, of course the indwelling of the Holy Spirit causes the believer to be Christ like.
I'm simply asking if he meant if we were justified by faith alone or faith plus works.
In my reading this morning, I came across these verses which I believe address that understanding.in my understand of James 2:24 is that man is justifed before other men by their works, his works show is faith to be true.
That is incorrect.In the new testament remember Emmanuel is God the Father.
By that, it appears you suggest that God the Father was crucified.Therefore we may consider the foundation principles upon which the new covenant was bestowed through God's grace by looking to that which occurred in the old testament prior to the crucifixion of Emmanuel and as pertains to matters of saving faith.
Paul was making the case that no one is justified by works of the Law. He was not referring to the good works for which God created us that we should make them our habitual manner of living. (i,e,: "walk in them")And this then recalled by the apostle Paul in his writing, epistle , which means letter, to the churches in Rome.
Romans 4:1-5
4 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
That is incorrect.
Mat 1:20-23
and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”