Bible Study The 3 Baptisms

[JLB]

Jesus did not mention baptism in water in John 3:5-6


Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6

• unless one is born of water and the Spirit,

Born of water refers to natural birth.


Jesus explained this in the next verse.

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh

JLB

 

[JLB]

The importance of baptism can be summed up in the simple, yet profound words of Jesus Christ: He who believes and is baptized will be saved

And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:15-16

It’s safe to say, the baptism associated with believing the Gospel is paramount to our salvation.


However which baptism is He referring to here?

Matthew records it this way –

And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. Matthew 28:20


The book of Acts records Jesus giving His apostles a command about baptism concerning the day Pentecost.


And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:5-6

for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.​

Paul teaches the Church through the understanding of shadows and types.



If we are to fully understand and apply these kingdom truths to our lives then we must reconcile all the scriptures that pertain to Baptisms.



Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 1 Corinthians 10:1-4

all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea​

Moses: A type of Christ.

The cloud: A type of the Holy Spirit

The sea: A type of water baptism



Baptized into Christ –


For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:12-13


When we are born again through believing the Gospel, we are baptized into Christ by the Spirit, and are one spirit with Christ.



But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17


The Holy Spirit baptizes us into Christ

Man baptizes with water.

Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit.






JLB

 

[Razeontherock]

I think you mean that speaking in tongues is the evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.


Remember there are three baptisms.



JLB

I'm pretty sure (having read the original thread) that Ezra was saying that speaking in tongues is NOT necessary as "evidence" of being Baptized in the Holy Spirit?

I'm asking just to clarify, because this section of the thread is kinda vague, and easily misunderstood

 

[Razeontherock]

The Holy Spirit baptizes us into Christ

Man baptizes with water.

Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit.

JLB

Help me out here? If these are the 3 Baptisms you refer to, can you explain how the first one here is distinct from the third?

 

[JLB]

Help me out here? If these are the 3 Baptisms you refer to, can you explain how the first one here is distinct from the third?

Yes,
(1) the Holy Spirit baptizes us into Christ.




(3) Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit.



JLB

 

[JLB]

I'm pretty sure (having read the original thread) that Ezra was saying that speaking in tongues is NOT necessary as "evidence" of being Baptized in the Holy Spirit?

I'm asking just to clarify, because this section of the thread is kinda vague, and easily misunderstood

Based on the biblical pattern of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, there is evidence that is seen and heard.


Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. Acts 2:33




And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:4



Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”
Acts 8:14-19



While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days. Acts 10:44-48



he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. Acts 19:2-6




JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Ephesians 2:8 Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus and not by works, which would make water baptism a work towards repentance. John said I must decrease and Jesus increase. Jesus never baptized with actual water even though He first came to John's water baptism as a fulfillment of prophecy as He had to identify with humanity even though He had no sin. This was the beginning of Christ ministry as the Holy Spirit fell down on Him that day and there after Jesus baptized others with the Holy Spirit, John 3:25-34

John 3:5 never mentions the word baptize, but says only by being born of water and spirit, which means water as living water (word) that no one can enter into the kingdom of God unless they are Spiritually renewed (born again) by the word, which is Christ Jesus and by the Holy Spirit that came on them in the OT and indwells us in the NT. Many do read into the passage a preconceived idea or theology, but baptism is never mentioned in this verse. Word is living water as described in John 4:10; 7:38; 1John 5:6; Jeremiah 2:13; Isaiah 55:1-3 to name a few.

If salvation came by actual immersion in water Jesus clearly could have simply stated, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is baptized by being immersed in water and born of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” Further, if Jesus had made such a statement, He would have contradicted numerous other Bible passages that make it clear that salvation is by faith (John 3:16; John 3:36; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5).

There is the case of the thief on the cross who repented, the women who was to be stoned for adultery, the women at the well, death bed confessions and even those who are incapacitated that can not be immersed in water. Does this mean they are not saved or born again, no. It means that no dirty river water is going to save anyone, but that it is only a symbol of repentance like that of John the baptist who called those to repent first. There is nothing wrong with being dunked in water, but know that it is only an outward appearance to others of what has already taken place Spiritually within you when you repented, accepted Jesus and was indwelled with the Holy Spirit.

Baptism is not mentioned in John chapter three so why do so many believe we are to be dunked in dirty river water as the water can not bring about Gods salvation, but only by faith do we believe as it comes by Gods grace, Ephesians 2:1-10, as we hear the gospel (word/living water) preached to us.

This is what the Jerusalem Bible says:
John 3:3 "I tell you most solemnly, unless a man is born from above, he can not see the kingdom of God."
John 3:5-7 "I tell you most solemnly, unless a man is born through water and the Spirit, he can not enter the kingdom of God. What is born of the flesh is flesh,(sin nature) what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be surprised when I say you must be born from above.

One needs to hear the word of God, as word being living water, in order to know they have to be born again of the Spirit in order to see and enter the kingdom of God.

John's baptism was literal, but yet symbolic for cleansing after one repented of their sin. Notice in Mark 1:8 I have baptized you with (actual) water, but he (Jesus) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. (Not water, but baptize you with the Holy Spirit after you have repented and made clean again through the washing of the word as you become a new creation in Christ.

Jesus never baptized anyone in literal water that we know of and also instructed the Disciples to wait upon the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, Acts chapter 1, and then commissioned them to go out preaching the Gospel (word/living water) and to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:16-20.

Being born from above means being born from the heavenly word of God, not dirty river water. When Jesus was baptized by John it was for the fulfillment of Messiah come as the Holy Spirit fell down on Him. Jesus had no need of being baptized in water for the remission of sin.

 

[Corn Pop]

As far as I can see in scripture, believing in Jesus, the one who come after John, is being baptised in Jesus, and the laying on of hands is recieve the Holy Spirit.

Acts 19 says people were only baptised in water and when they hear John said to believe in the one who comes after him, upon hearing that they were baptised in Jesus name. Then Paul lay his hands and they recieve the Spirit.

Another says baptised only in Jesus name so to recieve Spirit had hands layed on them.

Obviously they were believers in Jesus but not had hands to recieve Spirit.

What happened when there was no water or anyone to lay on hands?.

 

[Corn Pop]

Im not convinced when people say they come out of water baptism and recieved the Holy Spirit. I cannot see anywhere that is scriptural. Like people come up out of the water flippin out in the Spirit and stuff.

 

[Jim Parker]

Like people come up out of the water flippin out in the Spirit and stuff.

Being baptized in the Holy Spirit is not "flippin out in the Spirit ".
Act 10:45-46a And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

 

[Jim Parker]

I'm pretty sure (having read the original thread) that Ezra was saying that speaking in tongues is NOT necessary as "evidence" of being Baptized in the Holy Spirit?

It is evidence but it is not necessary evidence. (In spite of what I was told in my Pentecostal years.)
1Co 12:29-30 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
The type of question indicates that the expected answer is "no."

 

[Corn Pop]

Where did the recieving the Holy Spirit in water baptism come from?. Was it because Jesus come out of the water and the Spirit decended on him because he was the annointed, so when people get baptised in water they think they also recieve the Holy Spirit?.

Genuine question.

Or is modern day water baptism a 3 in one?. As hands are layed on when people get dunked?

 

[Jim Parker]

Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus and not by works, which would make water baptism a work towards repentance.

Jesus commanded that all disciples (that's every believer) be baptized. (Mat 28:19)
Jesus also said; " Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord" when you do not do what I command?" (Luk 6:46)
The message of that question is, if you refuse to obey Jesus' command then He is not your LORD and if He is not your Lord then you are not saved.

Also; Baptism is for the remission of sins.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

How are sins remitted in baptism? At Ro 6:6-7, Paul explains that, in Baptism, "...our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin."

John 3:5 never mentions the word baptize, but says only by being born of water and spirit, which means water as living water (word)

There is nothing in that passage to support, or even suggest, the false notion that "water", in that context, refers to the "word."
As stated above, Jesus commanded that all disciples (every believer) be baptized and the book of Acts clearly and repeatedly relates that everyone who was converted was also baptized in water.
The only way to the conclusion that the water refers to the word is to willfully ignore the teaching of scripture in order to promote the innovation that Baptism in water is not required as Jesus stated it is.

If salvation came by actual immersion in water

1Pe 3:20-21 ....who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism
So the word of God, through Peter, says we are saved in baptism.

Being born from above means being born from the heavenly word of God, not dirty river water.

"Born from above" refers to the baptism in (being filled with) the Holy Spirit.
Act 1:4-5 And being assembled together with them, He (Jesus) commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He (Jesus) said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

Jhn 3:5-8 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ the wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

 

[Jim Parker]

Where did the recieving the Holy Spirit in water baptism come from?

Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Or is modern day water baptism a 3 in one?. As hands are layed on when people get dunked?

The laying on of hands to receive the Holy Spirit is following the example of evangelists and apostles in the book of Acts.
Act 8:14-17 Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Act 19:3-6 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?” So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

 

[Corn Pop]

Also; Baptism is for the remission of sins.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

How does Acts 2:38 and Acts 8:16 work together.?

Peter says get baptised in the name of Jesus and you will recieve the Holy Spirit. And Paul says people were only baptised in the name of Jesus and needed hands to recieve Spirit.

 

[Jim Parker]

How does acts 2:38 and acts 8:16 work together.?

Peter says get baptized in the name of Jesus and you will receive the Holy Spirit. Where Paul says they were only baptized in the name of Jesus and need hands to receive Spirit.

There is no fixed formula for how God does what God does. (And that's a good thing because we would definitely make a religious ritual out of it whether anyone was filled with the Spirit or not.)
Some were baptized in water but did not receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit until someone laid hands on them.
The household of Cornelius was baptized in the spirit while Peter was still speaking and then they were baptized in water.

 

[ezra]

I'm pretty sure (having read the original thread) that Ezra was saying that speaking in tongues is NOT necessary as "evidence" of being Baptized in the Holy Spirit?

I'm asking just to clarify, because this section of the thread is kinda vague, and easily misunderstood

its been a while since i made this post so am not %100 as how i worded it. in essence what i am saying is baptism of the spirit is not tongues by one spirit are we baptized . tongues is a gift of the spirit and no i am not anti Pentecostal..i have been in services that all i heard was gibbering. i had no idea what was being said.

laying all that aside there are many things we still do not understand fully being born of the water is on of the, we all have our opinion i have mine and you all have yours . the most important thing is be born again. yes like to debate/ discuss there really is no difference. its the razor edge remarks that get out of control . i have had to preach behind a man at a association meeting held a doctor degree D.R ---- .i just preached in fact he used my scriptures i was going to use. we are dealing with interpretation disagreements. much like the osas /osnas issue. it depends on who ya ask

i hate doing long post my English skills suxs

 

[ezra]

There is no fixed formula for how God does what God does. (And that's a good thing because we would definitely make a religious ritual out of it whether anyone was filled with the Spirit or not.)

right there is exactly the truth . a phrase i heard another minister say when telling of the things he seen in his ministry as a founding pastor of a church that a God thing

 

[Jim Parker]

baptism of the spirit is not tongues by one spirit are we baptized . tongues is a gift of the spirit

Well said.

i have been in services that all i heard was gibbering. i had no idea what was being said.

That's why Paul told the Corinthian church that, if there was no interpreter, don't speak in tongues.

i hate doing long post my English skills suxs

They're good enough

 

[Razeontherock]

It is evidence but it is not necessary evidence. (In spite of what I was told in my Pentecostal years.)

Ah, yes; I went through that too.

While it was confusing, there's an interesting story of how I approached God about it, and how He responded. It was all perfectly scriptural, removed my confusion, and He honored my Faith. This started my learning process of discovering that God honors our Faith (which is worth repeating, I think)