Let’s please try to stick to what the scriptures say.
Unless you are promoting Universal Reconciliation?
JLB
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
God Created Man/Adam Sin-ful
- Thread starter jeremiah1five
- Start date
Let’s please try to stick to what the scriptures say.
Unless you are promoting Universal Reconciliation?
JLB
WIP,
MIGHT become in the Greek means WILL become.
It doesn't mean that a person might or might not become...(righteous)
as we would understand this using today's grammar..
It means that one WILL become (righteous).
This might help. Sorry if I misunderstood what you were asking...
https://biblehub.com/greek/1096.htm
To receive what I said in saying both were eventually saved and delivered you must understand several things and have your doctrine in the right place.
1. Jesus Christ, Messiah
2. Salvation
3. Samaritan
4. House of Israel
5 Calling
6. the Law
7. Rich young ruler
8. kingdom of God
9. Lost sheep
10. other
I reject Universalism.
If you want to discuss the Samaritan woman or the Rich young ruler and why I hold to their eventual salvation make a post. I'll be there.
2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV)
21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
1 Corinthians 15:42 (KJV)
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1 Corinthians 15:47 (KJV)
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
Romans 7:7 (KJV)
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Romans 7:9 (KJV)
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Romans 7:13 (KJV)
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Genesis 2:17 (KJV)
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
I really don’t want to discuss whether the Samaritan woman’s name was written in the Lamb’s book of life, which was your claim.
That is a subject neither you nor I can prove.
I just want to discuss what we can know from His word that we can apply to our life.
I know you must have much to share with us in that regard.
JLB
So please point out the doctrine of imputation or as “imputed righteousness”, in these scriptures you quoted.
JLB
I can prove through Scripture that she was Covenant, that Jesus healed her daughter and from that healing eventually when the time came delivered them both and saved. In this is proof her name was in the book of life of the lamb slain.
(do something for me, will you? You have too much space between comments. Can you remove some of that spacing, please?)
JLB,
Imputation is used to designate any action or word or thing as reckoned to a person. Thus in doctrinal language (1) the sin of Adam is imputed to all his descendants, i.e., it is reckoned as theirs, and they are dealt with therefore as guilty; (2) the righteousness of Christ is imputed to them that believe in him, or so attributed to them as to be considered their own; and (3) our sins are imputed to Christ, i.e., he assumed our "law-place," undertook to answer the demands of justice for our sins. In all these cases the nature of imputation is the same ( Romans 5:12-19 ; Compare Philemon 1:18 Philemon 1:19 ) [Easton's Bible Dictionary 3rd ed, courtesy Bible Study Tools).
A brief search with Google would have found this information quickly.
Oz
Oz,
I must say that I'm somewhat puzzled by what jeremiah1five is getting at. But I'm tired right now and will write to him tomorrow morning.
As to imputation -- I think we all know what it means. The question is: Was Adam's sin imputed to mankind?
I don't believe so. The EFFECT of Adam's sin is shared by all men, but according to scripture God does not hold us personally responsible for Adam's sin. It was Augustine who first came up with this theory (of Adam's sin being imputed to us).
As to Jesus, some will say that we are imputed with Jesus' righteousness...but then carry it so far as to say that we have no responsibility at all since we are entirely safe with Jesus. I don't know if this would fall under eternal security. I believe we are righteous by our belief in Jesus IF we follow His commands.
After all what does righteous mean?
Right with God.
IOW, is faith all we need or is there more?
Any other response will have to be for tomorrow.
Plenty of scripture but I can't do this now.
Night!
wondering,
In 2 Cor 5:21, the word translated 'might become' is genwmetha, from ginomai (I become) The verb genwmetha in 2 Cor 5:21 is parsed as: first person, plural number, aorist tense, subjunctive mood.
The indicative mood is the mood of reality, e.g. Jesus died on the cross. The subjunctive mood is the mood of probability, e.g. Jesus may die on the cross.
This is 1 Cor 5:21 (ESV), ' For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God'.
'Might become' is an accurate subjunctive mood translation. Note the word 'become'. It's a becoming process.
However, there is a subtle difference that can be associated with the subjunctive mood: 'It is quite probable that the future indicative is just a variation of the aorist subjunctive' (Robertson 1934 :924). So, 'will become' is a variation of the grammar and is an acceptable translation, as long as we understand that it is not a definite of what will happen.
The subjunctive mood always refers to the future. 'The subjunctive differs from the future indicative in stating what is thought likely to occur, not positively what will occur' (Thompson in Robertson 1934:925)
Oz
Works consulted
Robertson, A T 1934. A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research. Nashville, Tennessee: Broadman Press.
wondering,
This is only a starter. My cleaning lady comes today and I have to fold the washing first.
Rom 5:12 (NIV) states, 'Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned'
I believe Paul is telling the truth of the sinful condition of human beings and the world. To my understanding, he equates 'because all sinned' with "just as sin entered the world through one man'.
I'd recommend a read of Rom 5:12-21 for an understanding of this doctrine of imputation.
You ask: 'Was Adam's sin imputed to mankind? I don't believe so. The EFFECT of Adam's sin is shared by all men....'
Do you believe in original sin or not?
Oz
You're not the only one. I'm somewhat puzzled by what I'm getting at.
Look for you tomorrow.
Thanks for your input Oz.
Maybe you can quote some scriptures and from the words of scripture, please teach us the doctrine on imputed righteousness.
Please make sure that you reconciled the scriptures concerning the righteousness of faith as well as the principle of righteousness that I gave.
If we are all to discuss and study a doctrine then please quote the actual scripture and together we can discern what the Holy Spirit has inspired the writers to teach us.
Thanks JLB
OK now. Are we defining the English translation or the Greek?
Last edited:
I read and teach NT Greek and have a PhD in NT. I defined the Greek grammar using the language of this forum - English.
Here is what you stated -
Where are the words that we need to study what you are teaching?
Romans 5:12-19 ; Compare Philemon 1:18 Philemon 1:19 )
These references to scripture don’t teach us anything about what your saying.
For us to all come to the unity of faith, being established on the solid rock of the doctrine of Christ and His Apostles, so we are not tossed around by every wind of doctrine, let’s love each other enough to be thorough in what we are teaching to God’s children.
This Forum is in the process of becoming a sanctuary of peace, faith, hope and love, for the people of God to find refuge from the storms of false doctrine and deception that is being spewed out by the enemy.
In addition, I’m sure the internet has many fine commentaries for us to refer to, but in the end, these are just another man’s commentary.
Please, brother share some scripture and teach us about imputed righteousness.
I have heard plenty of people give their slant about this doctrine.
Some fall into the OSAS, eternal security camp.
It would be refreshing to hear a balanced teaching on the subject.
I will post the scripture that surely needs to be reconciled in any teaching about righteousness.
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7
JLB
Sorry, that doesn't impress me.
Go ahead. Take over.