wondering,
The phrase is found in the KJV of Heb 2:3, 'How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him'.
Oz
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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God Created Man/Adam Sin-ful
- Thread starter jeremiah1five
- Start date
wondering,
The phrase is found in the KJV of Heb 2:3, 'How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him'.
Oz
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Thanks Oz. I've never seen anyone use it so often like that and wondered if he meant anything special by it.
I guess our "Great Salvation" is special enough!
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
It's sometimes difficult to know exactly what persons are saying....it's not easy to speak of spiritual matters.
Jesus was a Promise Fulfilled for the the children of Abraham. We have this promise going all the way back to Genesis 3:15; God had a plan to save us all along from the beginning.
But Abraham's children rejected their Messiah. They still do not accept Him to this day.
The Apostles were sent to the lost sheep of Israel but in John 10:16 Jesus says that He has other sheep that He must bring into the fold.
My bible refers this back to Isaiah 56:6-8 which speak of foreigners being accepted by God.
Also, Abraham is told he will be the father of many nations.
And In Mathew 28:19 Jesus tells the Apostles to go into all the nations and make disciples.
Surely you agree with the above.
There you go. Your position destroys the Doctrine of Imputation.
We will ALL sin in glory with God.
Your reply: God will change us.
My response: He'll step on our freedom to choose. Some may not want to change. They are affraid of change.
C'mon, JLB. get it together over there. If the Scripture doesn't change you - Oh, there is God stomping on our free will - neither will anything I say.
Btw, free will in man is an illusion. God knows the end from the beginning BECAUSE He had ordained the end, and that means he either violates our "free will" or there is no "free will" to begin with.
One more thing...the Second Coming of Christ is God violating our "free will," did you know that?
For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Corinthians 5:21
We now have, through the born again new nature empowered by the Holy Spirit, all things that we need to live a righteous and godly life.
It’s a choice to practice righteousness, employing the gifts God has given us to do this very thing.
The principle of righteousness is this -
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7
The scripture you quoted says we are to “become” the righteousness of God in Christ.
By saying “become” the Holy Spirit is indicating a process.
This is the work of transformation.
This is the work of sanctification.
Are we walking in the light as He is in the light, or are we “hiding” in darkness as Adam.
Peter says it this way -
Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 1:2-11
JLB
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You will need to post the scriptures that teach us about Imputation so we can all examine the doctrine and what you believe.
Thanks. JLB
Please post the scripture where it says God
“Steps on our freedom to choose” ?
JLB
Scriptures don’t change people, people doing the word of God in obedience because the Spirit is the grace; the power to obey righteousness and have domino over sin that dwells in our flesh.
JLB
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It’s not God’s will that any should perish.
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
Will any perish?
How do we avoid perishing?
Repentance!
Does God do the repenting for us?
JLB
QUOTE: It's sometimes difficult to know exactly what persons are saying....it's not easy to speak of spiritual matters.
RESPONSE: Thank you, again on posting that piece on the Early Church Fathers. It was timely.
I agree. It is not easy to speak about spiritual matters. Scripture says that only those possessed of the Holy Spirit can process and understand spiritual matters.
1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV)
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
This doesn't mean that an unsaved person who does not have the Holy Spirit cannot understand the Scripture. I'm sure if you ask the unsaved person to interpret John 11:35 they will hit it directly on the spot. What's that called? Being "spot on?" It mostly means that the unsaved will not receive it (Scripture) as a whole as true.
QUOTE: Jesus was a Promise Fulfilled for the the children of Abraham. We have this promise going all the way back to Genesis 3:15; God had a plan to save us all along from the beginning.
RESPONSE: Excellent. I see you've been thinking.
The Samaritan woman did not know she was elect and her name was in the 'book' of life of the lamb slain....as the conversation revealed. But she was elect. And as Samaritan whom the children of Israel had no dealings, they wanted to be a part of their heritage, but it's a son-of-a-gun when one knows they belong 'somewhere' but that 'somewhere' doesn't want them or want them around.
QUOTE: But Abraham's children rejected their Messiah. They still do not accept Him to this day.
RESPONSE: You're speaking of a generation of the children of Israel that rejected their Messiah. Not all. Later, 3000 Hebrews became saved and were added to the Church. And as Acts 6:7 states:
Acts 6:7 (KJV)
7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.
"A great company" came to Christ. And through the centuries God would save a Hebrew here and a Hebrew there, it's just that something called the Times of the Gentiles was just starting and God had plans - as stated in the Old Testament as we see the Samaritan woman had understood - Messiah would deliver ALL of God's people, "Jew" and Gentile, all who are named in the 'book' of life.
QUOTE: The Apostles were sent to the lost sheep of Israel but in John 10:16 Jesus says that He has other sheep that He must bring into the fold.
My bible refers this back to Isaiah 56:6-8 which speak of foreigners being accepted by God.
RESPONSE: Excellent.
Isaiah 56:6-8 (KJV)
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.
Isn't it great to say the same thing as God?
But be careful with the word "all." These words are always in context to who is being spoken of, in this case, the "all" refers to all who the Lord shall save whose names are in the 'book' of life, and whom He calls.
QUOTE: Also, Abraham is told he will be the father of many nations.
And In Mathew 28:19 Jesus tells the Apostles to go into all the nations and make disciples.
Surely you agree with the above.
RESPONSE: Abraham comes from the line of Shem, one of three kids of Noah. Gentiles come from Japheth (Gen. 9:18), and Canaan. So the "nations" with regard to Abraham, and the "nations" in regard to what Jesus said of you noted, refer to those who are born in this line of Shem - as the Gentile line has already been established. and the "nations" refer to those who would come from Abraham through his 12 sons. "Nations" in Genesis 12 is the Hebrew word "goyim" (plural), and refers to Gentiles. This would include three generations later a Hebrew marrying a Gentile and having kids, who have other kids and who marry, and not always with a Hebrew.
RESPONSE: Thank you, again on posting that piece on the Early Church Fathers. It was timely.
I agree. It is not easy to speak about spiritual matters. Scripture says that only those possessed of the Holy Spirit can process and understand spiritual matters.
1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV)
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
This doesn't mean that an unsaved person who does not have the Holy Spirit cannot understand the Scripture. I'm sure if you ask the unsaved person to interpret John 11:35 they will hit it directly on the spot. What's that called? Being "spot on?" It mostly means that the unsaved will not receive it (Scripture) as a whole as true.
QUOTE: Jesus was a Promise Fulfilled for the the children of Abraham. We have this promise going all the way back to Genesis 3:15; God had a plan to save us all along from the beginning.
RESPONSE: Excellent. I see you've been thinking.
The Samaritan woman did not know she was elect and her name was in the 'book' of life of the lamb slain....as the conversation revealed. But she was elect. And as Samaritan whom the children of Israel had no dealings, they wanted to be a part of their heritage, but it's a son-of-a-gun when one knows they belong 'somewhere' but that 'somewhere' doesn't want them or want them around.
QUOTE: But Abraham's children rejected their Messiah. They still do not accept Him to this day.
RESPONSE: You're speaking of a generation of the children of Israel that rejected their Messiah. Not all. Later, 3000 Hebrews became saved and were added to the Church. And as Acts 6:7 states:
Acts 6:7 (KJV)
7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.
"A great company" came to Christ. And through the centuries God would save a Hebrew here and a Hebrew there, it's just that something called the Times of the Gentiles was just starting and God had plans - as stated in the Old Testament as we see the Samaritan woman had understood - Messiah would deliver ALL of God's people, "Jew" and Gentile, all who are named in the 'book' of life.
QUOTE: The Apostles were sent to the lost sheep of Israel but in John 10:16 Jesus says that He has other sheep that He must bring into the fold.
My bible refers this back to Isaiah 56:6-8 which speak of foreigners being accepted by God.
RESPONSE: Excellent.
Isaiah 56:6-8 (KJV)
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.
Isn't it great to say the same thing as God?
But be careful with the word "all." These words are always in context to who is being spoken of, in this case, the "all" refers to all who the Lord shall save whose names are in the 'book' of life, and whom He calls.
QUOTE: Also, Abraham is told he will be the father of many nations.
And In Mathew 28:19 Jesus tells the Apostles to go into all the nations and make disciples.
Surely you agree with the above.
RESPONSE: Abraham comes from the line of Shem, one of three kids of Noah. Gentiles come from Japheth (Gen. 9:18), and Canaan. So the "nations" with regard to Abraham, and the "nations" in regard to what Jesus said of you noted, refer to those who are born in this line of Shem - as the Gentile line has already been established. and the "nations" refer to those who would come from Abraham through his 12 sons. "Nations" in Genesis 12 is the Hebrew word "goyim" (plural), and refers to Gentiles. This would include three generations later a Hebrew marrying a Gentile and having kids, who have other kids and who marry, and not always with a Hebrew.
If we look closer at the Scripture verse you reference it says "might become."
For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Corinthians 5:21
Scriptures alone changes no one, otherwise Saul of Tarsus who have never needed an encounter on the road to Damascus.
Jesus says it this way -
You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:39-40
It is the power of His Spirit within us, through the born again nature, that is compatible with righteousness and holiness, in which we are given the authority and right to become sons of God.
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:12
JLB
I didn’t find where her name was written in the Lamb’s book of life from their conversation. She did eventually go and get them men, and they came to Him, as many came to Him throughout His ministry.
The rich young ruler comes to mind.
JLB
QUOTE :Scriptures alone changes no one, otherwise Saul of Tarsus who have never needed an encounter on the road
to Damascus.
RESPONSE: JLB, JLB, JLB! (sounds better if Marlon Brando said it, I think.)
Beg, beg, beg to differ.
1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Saul of Tarsus was a priest. He read and studied the Scripture. This means he self-planted the Word of God which is Seed. When the appointed TIME arrived the Seed, that self-contained power of God grew and He was born again. Another thing, God saves merely on His Promise to save and that Promise was given in Trinity BEFORE God created heaven, earth, and man. God doesn't sit around waiting to see who will "accept Jesus into their 'heart,'" He is actively applying the salvation bought by the Son on His cross at Calvary. God Himself is on a mission. God knows the end from the beginning because He ordained the end. That means no free will and it means everything that has happened, will happen has been ordained by God.
QUOTE: Jesus says it this way -
You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:39-40
RESPONSE: He sure does.
QUOTE: It is the power of His Spirit within us, through the born again nature, that is compatible with righteousness and holiness, in which we are given the authority and right to become sons of God.
RESPONSE: This statement is confusing. It sounds right, but it isn't right.
Let's try this...There is no 'born again nature.' What does that mean? Our souls are not saved or changed, our bodies are saved or changed - not yet. There is no such thing as a born-again nature. Our souls are comprised of intellect, mind, senses, emotions, conscience, and our will. and when we are born again nothing about us changes. We are still in this body of this death, Paul said. EXCEPT NOW, through Atonement and the application of that work by Jesus Christ, God manifests Himself through us. We are still sinful vessels.
QUOTE: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12
JLB
RESPONSE: OK.
to Damascus.
RESPONSE: JLB, JLB, JLB! (sounds better if Marlon Brando said it, I think.)
Beg, beg, beg to differ.
1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Saul of Tarsus was a priest. He read and studied the Scripture. This means he self-planted the Word of God which is Seed. When the appointed TIME arrived the Seed, that self-contained power of God grew and He was born again. Another thing, God saves merely on His Promise to save and that Promise was given in Trinity BEFORE God created heaven, earth, and man. God doesn't sit around waiting to see who will "accept Jesus into their 'heart,'" He is actively applying the salvation bought by the Son on His cross at Calvary. God Himself is on a mission. God knows the end from the beginning because He ordained the end. That means no free will and it means everything that has happened, will happen has been ordained by God.
QUOTE: Jesus says it this way -
You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:39-40
RESPONSE: He sure does.
QUOTE: It is the power of His Spirit within us, through the born again nature, that is compatible with righteousness and holiness, in which we are given the authority and right to become sons of God.
RESPONSE: This statement is confusing. It sounds right, but it isn't right.
Let's try this...There is no 'born again nature.' What does that mean? Our souls are not saved or changed, our bodies are saved or changed - not yet. There is no such thing as a born-again nature. Our souls are comprised of intellect, mind, senses, emotions, conscience, and our will. and when we are born again nothing about us changes. We are still in this body of this death, Paul said. EXCEPT NOW, through Atonement and the application of that work by Jesus Christ, God manifests Himself through us. We are still sinful vessels.
QUOTE: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12
JLB
RESPONSE: OK.
QUOTE: It’s not God’s will that any should perish.
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
Will any perish?
How do we avoid perishing?
Repentance!
Does God do the repenting for us?
JLB
RESPONSE: NO ONE who is named in the book of life of the lamb slain from [BEFORE] the foundation (creation) of the world shall 'perish.'
No one.
All, in due time shall repent. God will grant it at the appointed time.
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
Will any perish?
How do we avoid perishing?
Repentance!
Does God do the repenting for us?
JLB
RESPONSE: NO ONE who is named in the book of life of the lamb slain from [BEFORE] the foundation (creation) of the world shall 'perish.'
No one.
All, in due time shall repent. God will grant it at the appointed time.
ME: (taking your position to its conclusion...that men have free will)
"We will ALL sin in glory with God.
Your reply: God will change us.
My response: He'll step on our freedom to choose. Some may not want to change. They are affraid of change. "
QUOTE:Please post the scripture where it says God
“Steps on our freedom to choose” ?
RESPONSE: You're the one that holds to free will in man, I don't.
But here, I'll give you a Scripture that says God steps on our "freedom" to choose a.k.a 'free will' in man:
Revelation 19:11-16 (KJV)
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
ON THAT DAY a man will wake up and exercise his free will and want to take his kids to the park and play ball, a woman will wake and choose from her free will to go get her hair done later that afternoon, another man will have exercised his free will and have bought a ticket to the Super-Duper Bowl and plan to go that Sunday......THEN!
Here comes Jesus on a white horse. Things END right there because Jesus says so with an army from heaven....free will stomped on by God, that sinner!
There is no free will in man. God knows the end BECAUSE He ordained the end...that means predestined, pre-ordained.
One day all this "free will" in man will cease because God sends His Son to TAKE BACK what He was Promised a long time ago...
JBL, you really don't understand if you are saved....YOU DON'T BELONG TO YOU ANYMORE. "YOU" WERE BOUGHT WITH A PRICE:
From one bondage to slave of Christ.
Going from one master to another.
Going from one slave to become the slave of another.
I tire of repeating myself.
"We will ALL sin in glory with God.
Your reply: God will change us.
My response: He'll step on our freedom to choose. Some may not want to change. They are affraid of change. "
QUOTE:Please post the scripture where it says God
“Steps on our freedom to choose” ?
RESPONSE: You're the one that holds to free will in man, I don't.
But here, I'll give you a Scripture that says God steps on our "freedom" to choose a.k.a 'free will' in man:
Revelation 19:11-16 (KJV)
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
ON THAT DAY a man will wake up and exercise his free will and want to take his kids to the park and play ball, a woman will wake and choose from her free will to go get her hair done later that afternoon, another man will have exercised his free will and have bought a ticket to the Super-Duper Bowl and plan to go that Sunday......THEN!
Here comes Jesus on a white horse. Things END right there because Jesus says so with an army from heaven....free will stomped on by God, that sinner!
There is no free will in man. God knows the end BECAUSE He ordained the end...that means predestined, pre-ordained.
One day all this "free will" in man will cease because God sends His Son to TAKE BACK what He was Promised a long time ago...
JBL, you really don't understand if you are saved....YOU DON'T BELONG TO YOU ANYMORE. "YOU" WERE BOUGHT WITH A PRICE:
From one bondage to slave of Christ.
Going from one master to another.
Going from one slave to become the slave of another.
I tire of repeating myself.