Why do you take the risk of eating murdered animals?

[Luminous_Rose]

What is the purpose of the human, could you tell us?

From what I can gather for an in general type of statement here: The purpose of people as I mentioned before is to do God's will and spread His word. God didn't create us, though, because he needed us. He created us to share His creation with. God wanted to love us and share that with us, he wanted us to be part of His family. God wants us to choose to honor him with our lives and do what's right according to His word.

It looks like the permission to eat animals was not given until that time, and given only because of Noah having done the sacrifice. Do you agree?

I can't say for certain whether Noah's sacrifice meant that animals could be eaten at that time. It's entirely possible people ate meat between that time after the fall and Noah, but perhaps may not have been documented. It doesn't tell us exactly why this changed after Noah. All we have is theory. Perhaps the flood wiped out a lot of the nutritious vegetation. Maybe cannibalism was around and God would rather people eat other animals than each other. Maybe people were allowed to eat the meat as not to waste the animals if they used the hides and skins for clothing/shelter. Who really knows?

Why would you not go a little further in order to get the nutrition you need, when you know it would save significant stress and trauma to the animal? How do you think the sum of the inconvenience to you weighs against the sum of the (*beg your pardon*) inconvenience (*beg your pardon*) they suffer?

Go a little further...? It sounds like you think I'm lazy or something so I eat meat, or I don't take care of my body because I eat meat. That aside, meat helps me as I have been very vitamin deficient over the course of my life time. I have always had an issue holding onto certain vitamins and if I go without meat for a while, I don't feel well and I feel totally out of energy. I end up feeling ill, and really, I'd rather eat meat than not for my own sake.

If an animals dies and then has it's body used up in it's entirety then it's not a waste of that animal's life. An animal dying of illness and then not being able to be eaten feels more like a sad waste in some cases.

Because I am concerned about stress and trauma to an animal, I choose to go with a local rancher that I know and can ask questions and talk to and they treat their animals a whole lot better than any commercial rancher. They aren't using any electronic equipment to do the slaughtering that may fail or not follow through. Sometimes animals have no idea they are about to be slaughtered. Often times the process should be quick as to cause the less amount of stress and trauma to the animal as possible. Some animals probably didn't even know what hit 'em.

Considering I do have permission to eat animals when I need to, I definitely will. I am grateful for an animals' life they have given so that I may eat. Raising animals myself, it's not something I take for granted.

Matthew 7:12 is good enough for me

This verse has nothing to do with animals. It is talking about interactions between people. Again, you have placed animals on the same level as people. Using a bible verse with animals not even in it to justify yourself isn't accurate.

 

[Serving Zion]

Lions and tigers and bears...and other animals, eat their neighbors.

It is here now, in this fallen world. It isn't God's desire though (consider Isaiah 11:9).

 

[Serving Zion]

An animal is not human.
It is not made in God's image.

We have been given dominion over the animals.
"Everything we do to an animal is either a lawful exercise, or a sacrilegious abuse, of an authority of divine right."
C.S.Lewis

If you refuse to address my questions and to provide examples when necessary, we cannot have a productive conversation because you are not providing me the things I need in order to decide whether I am able to agree with you.

 

[Corn Pop]

Why would the scripture say something like you may eat any animal that has a split hoof divided in two, if God disapproved?. Or the Levites portion to eat meat in the holy place.

 

[Serving Zion]

Why would Moses if it was Moses say to whoever it was something like you may eat any animal that has a split hoof divided in two, if God disapproved?

It was well-embedded into their culture by that time. They'd all been born after having been enslaved for several generations in Egypt. If you follow the conversation back you will see that I have been asking why the rules changed in the time of Noah. Before Noah, there was no mention of eating animals and slaughtering sacrifices.

 

[Serving Zion]

From what I can gather for an in general type of statement here: The purpose of people as I mentioned before is to do God's will and spread His word.

I was wanting to go back to the beginning, to the time before the humans. God had already made a complete world and He had seen all that He had made and He was very pleased. There were no humans in that time, so what is the purpose of the human?

 

[Serving Zion]

I can't say for certain whether Noah's sacrifice meant that animals could be eaten at that time. It's entirely possible people ate meat between that time after the fall and Noah, but perhaps may not have been documented.

It doesn't fit logically with the fact that He said "I now give them into your hand". That does directly say that they weren't given for food before that time.

 

[Serving Zion]

It doesn't tell us exactly why this changed after Noah. All we have is theory.

We have Genesis 8:21 too: "And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma."

I'd rather eat meat than not for my own sake.

I would be making the opposite decision, obviously, as I have said now for the third time.

This verse has nothing to do with animals. It is talking about interactions between people. Again, you have placed animals on the same level as people. Using a bible verse with animals not even in it to justify yourself isn't accurate.

I'm using it to show why I can't do it with good conscience. The way I am using it is valid because of that.

 

[Corn Pop]

I dont think Jesus felt guilty telling Peter to cast his net the other side to catch some fish or Jesus cooking fish himself over hot coals at the beach.

 

[Serving Zion]

If humans don't have any greater right than any other creature, then why is this said here in Genesis 1:26 NIV:

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

I understand it to be a record of history containing information for philosophical purposes when understanding God's reason for creating humans.

I'm curious what you believe this verse means if, as you say, we weren't given a right over animals.

Well, let's see if we can unpack it and find out why:

It says they were made in the image of God and for the purpose of ruling over the fish/birds/animals/critters. They were made to be rulers therefore, and to be a representation of God in a physical sense (because God is spirit and thus cannot be seen).

What part of that do you see as corresponding to "rights over" the other creatures?

 

[Hopeful]

It is here now, in this fallen world. It isn't God's desire though (consider Isaiah 11:9).

"In this fallen world", is the key.

 

[Serving Zion]

"I this fallen world", is the key.

We do agree! (eg: Matthew 5:18, hence Romans 8:22).

 

[Serving Zion]

I dont think Jesus felt guilty telling Peter to cast his net the other side to catch some fish or Jesus cooking fish himself over hot coals at the beach.

I don't know about that, TBH. Maybe He did, but how could we know? I think it is true to say that nobody would have condemned Him for it given the cultural norms at the time, but He would have been vulnerable to their judgment if He had refused to feed them so He's obviously chosen to bless them by doing it in order to have fellowship with them and share the Word of life with them.

You might be interested to consider this again:

God's law obviously surpasses natural law because He is in a position of presiding over the supernatural. Hence, His law provides for the forgiveness of transgressing the animal's natural right so that it does not condemn the human eternally.

 

[Corn Pop]

I don't know about that, TBH. Maybe He did, but how could we know? I think it is true to say that nobody would have condemned Him for it given the cultural norms at the time, but He would have been vulnerable to their judgment if He had refused to feed them so He's obviously chosen to bless them by doing it in order to have fellowship with them and share the Word of life with them.

You might be interested to consider this again:

Even if he did feel guilty It cannot be a sin or against God because why would Jesus have said what he said or done it if goes against God or his morals. Its morally wrong to eat or kill fish but hey cast your net the other side and fill it then come and eat some fish im cooking. It dont make sense.

 

[Serving Zion]

Even if he did feel guilty It cannot be a sin or against God because why would Jesus have said what he said or done it if goes against God or his morals. Its morally wrong to eat or kill fish but hey cast your net the other side and fill it then come and eat some fish im cooking. It dont make sense.

Is all immorality sin?

 

[Corn Pop]

I might do some study.

 

[JLB]

Explain what?
That you worship animals?
You need to do the explaining.

He has not indicated that he worship’s animals.


Please do not misrepresent Members.




JLB

 

[Hopeful]

Is all immorality sin?

It is, if the immorality goes against "true" morality.
In Hitler's Germany, it was immoral to allow Jews to hide in your house.
But that was Germany's morals and not God's morals.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

It is, if the immorality goes against "true" morality.
In Hitler's Germany, it was immoral to allow Jews to hide in your house.
But that was Germany's morals and not God's morals.

What are God's morals?

 

[Serving Zion]

I disagree.

(This post has been edited by a moderator)

Rollo, I love animals and I stand up for their rights. When Jesus washed the feet of His disciples, He was serving them. So it is that when God placed man to rule over the animals, He was putting us here to be of service to them in justice. It's the kingdom principles of the greater who serves the lesser, you wouldn't understand that if you've only ever seen the greater oppressing the lesser (Mark 10:42-45).