Roman Catholic church

[Bible]

God says otherwise - Matthew 1:25 - she had sex with joseph after Jesus was born

scripture does not label her as the mother of God - the titles you give her and peter are not found in scripture

You’re inference is wrong
Mother of God Lk 1:43


Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (only Jesus is savior)


Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

Ark of the new covenant!
The dwelling place of God!
God dwelt in Mary’s womb for 9 months, remember the ark was incorruptible wood covered with pure gold signifying Mary’s immaculate purity!
read exodus or any place in the Old Testament where something came into contact with God or was consecrated to the service of God it had to be pure and Holy!
In the ark was the word of God!
In Mary the new ark is the living Word!
In the ark was the mana!
In Mary was the bread come down from heaven! Jn 6
Bethlehem means house to of bread!

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, (Isa 7:14) and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Jn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Holy mother of God!

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.



Biblical principle:
Anything Consecrated to God must be pure and used only for the purpose of serving God!

See exodus: the ark of the covenant, everything used in the temple etc.

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

Mary and her virginity are Consecrated to God in immaculate purity, the pure gold of divine love!

Mary was the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone!


Can a man use the ark of the covenant for a common dinner table?

Then Joseph can in no any way use Mary for a common wife!

No mere man may enter where God conceived! Ez 44:2

Mary would not consent to God’s will and to receive the exalted dignity of the mother of God if it means violating her vow of perpetual virginity then why simply consent relations with Joseph!

That’s impossible!

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

(This verse imply’s that Mary is consecrated to God alone! and has taken a vow of perpetual virginity! She was s willing to refuse even the exalted dignity of mother of God, the mother of our savior, and mother of all Christians if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

She consented to our salvation when she realized it would not violate her vow of perpetual virginity!

 

[for_his_glory]

the church wrote the New Testament

No the church did not write the NT. That which makes up the NT is what the Apostles wrote in their witness of Christ as they taught and testified of Him, except for Luke and Paul who were not eye witnesses of Christ as they were shown by the Holy Spirit teaching them. It is the letters that have been written by the Apostles of Christ that make up the NT.

 

[for_his_glory]

The same applies to grace, we are not worthy to receive grace, so God made Mary by the immaculate conception worthy to receive all grace for us, and worthy to miraculously conceive of the Holy Spirit and to give birth to our savior and worthy to receive our salvation!

The only truth in your statement is that Mary was worthy of being conceived of the Holy Spirit. The rest is just the dogma of the Roman Catholic church that teaches you the rest.

Why do you think that the reason for the Roman Catholic church burning Bibles and who persecuted millions of Christians to death during the crusades?

Only Jesus is worthy of our salvation through His finished works on the cross as only He alone is our salvation, not Mary.

 

[WIP]

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

What kind of relation are you talking about? Prior to Jesus' birth and even before the angel Gabriel appeared to Mary, she and Joseph had a relationship. Even the translation you referenced did not use the word "relation" but rather that he (Joseph) did not "know her" until Jesus was born. The phrase "know her" is used in other places in Scripture to refer to sexual relations.

Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Either way, Joseph did not "know her" or have sexual relations with her until Jesus was born. I guess if you want to believe that it would have been possible for Michal to have children after her death well...

You seem to be trying exceedingly hard to shape Scripture to fit your narrative. Sounds like when Satan said to Eve, "Did God really say....?"

Note: I am not accusing you of being Satan.

 

[for_his_glory]

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns

You need to read Colossians 1:1-23 as Jesus is the head of His church being the body of Christ, not by religious denominations or non-denominations, but by the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

 

[Bible]

not found in scripture - sounds like worship - only God is to be worshipped

God rebuked mary several times during her life and brought her down to human level when people tried to exalt her above others - God and the apostles never said the things you say about her even once - -Luke 2:49 - Matthew 12:48-49 - Luke 11:28 - John 2:4

God elevated john the baptist above mary - Luke 7:28

Sounds like worship? Really?
Does that make it worship?

Blessed are the merciful they shall obtain mercy. Is Jesus worshiping the merciful???

Yes only can worship God
And Mary is not God

Mary never exalts herself and is not put down
Lk 1:48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

Matt 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Lk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

No one has done this more than Mary mother of our salvation Lk 1:45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.

 

[Bible]

I thought Jesus was/is the head of the Church.

"on this rock I will build My church,"
Matthew 16:18 NKJV

He is but he ascended to heaven Peter and his successors is administering the kingdom until his return
Isa 22:21-22 matt 16:18 keys

 

[Bible]

a true and valid pope would have been spoken of in the bible - he wasn't so a pope is a man-made construct/position

Isa 22:21-22
Matt 16:18

 

[hawkman]

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns

Does Peter know about this ! ? !

 

[Bible]

a true and valid pope would have been spoken of in the bible - he wasn't so a pope is a man-made construct/position

Successors of Moses!

Matt 23 why does Jesus say to obey the successors of Moses?

The successors of Moses sit in the chair of Moses having the authority of the keys and the power to bind and loose Matt 23 and Jesus commanded them to be obeyed! Then the kingdom was taken from them matt 21:43 and given to Peter, Matt 16:18 the apostles, Matt 18:18 and their successors with the authority of the keys and the power to bind and lose!

Jesus said to obey the authority of the successors of Moses mt 23 authority of the keys and power to bind and loose and this power and authority was taken from them matt and given by Christ to Peter, the apostles and their successors, mt 16:18 18:18 this same authority and power must be obeyed!

mt 28:18-20 all authority is given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors requiring obedience, rom 1:5 obedience to the faith!
And Jesus say to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: behold I am with you even until the end of the world!!!
So the apostles have to remain until the end! Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and Priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Reign with kingdom authority (keys) power (bind loose) matt 16:18
The successors of Peter and the apostles have a valid jurisdictional authority (keys) and power (bind and loose) by Jesus Christ!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

 

[Bible]

Jesus never praised mary once - he did rebuke her a few times though - a strange thing considering she gave birth to him - iow she must have been seriously off-track on spiritual matters for this to occur

Jn 2 woman?
Christ is reminding us of gen 3:5

 

[for_his_glory]

(This verse shows Mary was faithful and did the will of God and that’s what Jesus praised





Ark of the new covenant!
The dwelling place of God!
God dwelt in Mary’s womb for 9 months, remember the ark was incorruptible wood covered with pure gold signifying Mary’s immaculate purity!
read exodus or any place in the Old Testament where something came into contact with God or was consecrated to the service of God it had to be pure and Holy!
In the ark was the word of God!
In Mary the new ark is the living Word!
In the ark was the mana!
In Mary was the bread come down from heaven! Jn 6
Bethlehem means house to of bread!

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, (Isa 7:14) and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Jn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Holy mother of God!

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.



Biblical principle:
Anything Consecrated to God must be pure and used only for the purpose of serving God!

See exodus: the ark of the covenant, everything used in the temple etc.

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

Mary and her virginity are Consecrated to God in immaculate purity, the pure gold of divine love!

Mary was the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone!


Can a man use the ark of the covenant for a dinner table?

No mere man may enter where God conceived!

Mary would not consent to God’s will and to receive the exalted dignity of the mother of God if it means violating her vow of perpetual virginity then why simply consent relations with Joseph!

That’s impossible!


Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

(This verse imply’s that Mary is consecrated to God alone! and has taken a vow of perpetual virginity! She was s willing to refuse even the exalted dignity of mother of God, the mother of our savior, and mother of all Christians if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

She consented to our salvation when she realized it would not violate her vow of perpetual virginity!

Again, adding and taking away from scripture and not even giving us any sources, but that of what the RCC teaches outside of the written word of God. Do you not fear God in the judgement he will place upon you for adding and taking away from His written word!!!

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

We are all trying to show you the love and concern we have for you that you would seek truth through the Holy Spirit and not the RCC. Do you know what it means to be Spiritually born again from above as the RCC does not teach the Spiritual things of God.

 

[Bible]

And he obeys Mary
And the apostles believe Jn 2:11

Blessing from God thru Mary!

All graces come to us they Mary, from God by the merits (blood) of Christ!
Jn 1:16
Of His fullness we have all received, grace for grace!

Salvation Lk 1:30
Consented to our salvation Lk 1:38
Mother of Christ Matt 1:16
Mother of the word Jn 1:1
Mother of our savior Matt 1:21
Mother of our salvation Lk 2:30
Our mother Jn 19:26-27

Elizabeth filled with the Holy Spirit!

Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

John sanctified in the womb!

Lk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Lk 1:44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

Zacharias is filled with the Holy Spirit and prophecy!

Lk 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

The wedding couple have wine and not shame!

Jn 2: 10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

The disciples are supplied with faith, hope, and charity!

11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

All these blessings from God because of Mary most holy!

Mother of Divine Grace!

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

The throne of Grace is the throne of Mary the ever Virgin mother of God!

We come boldly to this throne cause Mary is our mother and advocate!

Mary is the storehouse of divine graces!

Lk 1:28
And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.

All graces come from the merits of Christ, from His passion and death and come thru Mary to the glory of Her only begotten Son!

 

[Bible]

that's Messiah not peter - you are misattributing God's statements

The prime minister holds the keys of jurisdictional authority under the king and administers the kingdom for the king and in his absence
Isa 22:21-22 matt 16:18
Jesus and peter are acting as one

Ephesians 5:32
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

The apostles act in the name and person of Christ Jn 15:5

 

[for_his_glory]

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

This is how the true church of Christ being the body of Christ with He being the head of the body is governed as Christ administers the kingdom of God within the body. Confession of faith in Christ leads us to the kingdom of God here on earth as Christ in us and we in Him by God's Holy Spirit.

1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

These are called Spiritual gifts given by the Holy Spirit in the administration and the workings of His church that we all come into the unity of faith in Christ.

 

[for_his_glory]

It’s all about christ
He is God savior mediator
He is the founder of the new covenant church
It is his church
I know it’s hard for a man who is used to protests disobedience

Everything you say here is true, but why can you not believe it.

Our obedience is unto Christ alone, not mans religious affiliation.

 

[for_his_glory]

Sorry

know it’s hard for a man who is used to protests disobedience and rebellion in chaos to under that God establishes peace and order from obedience and faithfulness to hierarchical authority

Than why do you walk in disobedience to God allowing the demands (Dogma) of the RCC dictate to you how and what you are to believe in. Why did the RCC change the seventh day Sabbath to Sunday if they are in obedience to God's commandments.

 

[for_his_glory]

You’re inference is wrong
Mother of God Lk 1:43

This is in reference to Elisabeth asking Mary, who was the mother of Christ, not the mother of God. Was God created or is He Alpha and Omega.

Luke 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? My Lord here means Jesus.

 

[for_his_glory]

Mary would not consent to God’s will and to receive the exalted dignity of the mother of God if it means violating her vow of perpetual virginity then why simply consent relations with Joseph!

Where in scripture or any other writing did Mary make a vow to remain a virgin all her life after Jesus was born.

 

[for_his_glory]

The throne of Grace is the throne of Mary the ever Virgin mother of God!

We come boldly to this throne cause Mary is our mother and advocate!

Mary is the storehouse of divine graces!

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Is Mary our great high priest, no. It is Jesus who is our high priest as He is God's free gift of grace as we come boldly unto Him who sits at the right hand of God making intercession for us.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.