Roman Catholic church

[Truthfrees]

Blessed be the great Mother of God, Mary most Holy.
Blessed be her Holy and Immaculate Conception.
Blessed be her Glorious Assumption.
Blessed be the name of Mary, ever Virgin and Mother.

Blessed be God in His Angels and in His Saints. Amen.

not found in scripture - sounds like worship - only God is to be worshipped

God rebuked mary several times during her life and brought her down to human level when people tried to exalt her above others - God and the apostles never said the things you say about her even once - -Luke 2:49 - Matthew 12:48-49 - Luke 11:28 - John 2:4

God elevated john the baptist above mary - Luke 7:28

 

[WIP]

Peter is head of the church!

I thought Jesus was/is the head of the Church.

"on this rock I will build My church,"
Matthew 16:18 NKJV

 

[Bible]

Luke 1:39-45 is the visit between Mary and Elisabeth. How can Jesus be glorifying his mother when He wasn't born yet. It was Elisabeth in vs. 45 that is blessed because she believed Mary was carrying the Christ child.

(This verse shows Mary was faithful and did the will of God and that’s what Jesus praised

If you think Mary and Joseph never consummated their marriage you go right ahead.

Of course Mary knew no man as she wasn't married to Joseph yet and was still a virgin at the time the angel came to her. Nowhere in scripture does it say she is a perpetual virgin, but only the dogma of the Roman Catholic Church says she is.

Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

Pretty much says Joseph knew her after Christ was born.

You certainly add to and take away from scripture putting your own spin on it.

Ark of the new covenant!
The dwelling place of God!
God dwelt in Mary’s womb for 9 months, remember the ark was incorruptible wood covered with pure gold signifying Mary’s immaculate purity!
read exodus or any place in the Old Testament where something came into contact with God or was consecrated to the service of God it had to be pure and Holy!
In the ark was the word of God!
In Mary the new ark is the living Word!
In the ark was the mana!
In Mary was the bread come down from heaven! Jn 6
Bethlehem means house to of bread!

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, (Isa 7:14) and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Jn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Holy mother of God!

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.



Biblical principle:
Anything Consecrated to God must be pure and used only for the purpose of serving God!

See exodus: the ark of the covenant, everything used in the temple etc.

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

Mary and her virginity are Consecrated to God in immaculate purity, the pure gold of divine love!

Mary was the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone!


Can a man use the ark of the covenant for a dinner table?

No mere man may enter where God conceived!

Mary would not consent to God’s will and to receive the exalted dignity of the mother of God if it means violating her vow of perpetual virginity then why simply consent relations with Joseph!

That’s impossible!


Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

(This verse imply’s that Mary is consecrated to God alone! and has taken a vow of perpetual virginity! She was s willing to refuse even the exalted dignity of mother of God, the mother of our savior, and mother of all Christians if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

She consented to our salvation when she realized it would not violate her vow of perpetual virginity!

 

[Bible]

Adding Roman Caesars to Daniel 2:44 is a false teaching as you are adding to scripture. This was the time of the Babylon Empire during the reign of Nebuchadnezzar and Caesar Augustus, being the very first Caesar ruled from 27BC - 14AD way after the days of Daniel.

That list of scriptures shows how Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. When did Jesus who is King of kings and Lord of lords ever become absent? We submit to the authority of God, not the Pope nor the Apostles.

Not adding just a reference that’s why it’s in parentheses

 

[Bible]

Adding Roman Caesars to Daniel 2:44 is a false teaching as you are adding to scripture. This was the time of the Babylon Empire during the reign of Nebuchadnezzar and Caesar Augustus, being the very first Caesar ruled from 27BC - 14AD way after the days of Daniel.

That list of scriptures shows how Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. When did Jesus who is King of kings and Lord of lords ever become absent? We submit to the authority of God, not the Pope nor the Apostles.

When ascended to heaven

 

[Bible]

are you saying the "true church" and God's replacement (the pope) are now in apostasy?

do you think it might have gone into apostasy before this and you are just unaware of it?

No not at all what I’m saying
A true and valid pope cannot teach error Jn 16:13 but an invalid imposter or many could

 

[Truthfrees]

No not at all what I’m saying
A true and valid pope cannot teach error Jn 16:13 but an invalid imposter or many could

a true and valid pope would have been spoken of in the bible - he wasn't so a pope is a man-made construct/position

 

[Bible]

are the words of a pope (man) of equal or greater divine inspiration to scripture?

that is the point - these people you trust do not compare to God and his words - nothing compares to God's word - anyone who contradicts God's word in any way is wrong - God's word is the plumb line to decide anything

Not only equal to Christ are in union with Christ and actually wrote the whole New Testament

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Only the church has authority from Christ to define the truth and teach!
Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13

The teaching of Peter and the apostles and successors is the teaching of Christ!

 

[Bible]

there is no scripture naming peter - you are putting peter's name into scriptures that are about Messiah - peter was no messiah

Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!

Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!

Peter is head of the church!

Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)

Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.

Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father

Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 15:7

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns

 

[Truthfrees]

(This verse shows Mary was faithful and did the will of God and that’s what Jesus praised

Jesus never praised mary once - he did rebuke her a few times though - a strange thing considering she gave birth to him - iow she must have been seriously off-track on spiritual matters for this to occur

 

[Truthfrees]

Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!

Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!

Peter is head of the church!

Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)

Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.

Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father

Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 15:7

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns

that's Messiah not peter - you are misattributing God's statements

 

[jaybo]

Hyperdulia or latria?

Worship and adoration to God alone

Praise vernetation honor to the saints

Mediatrix does not make Mary the mediator or violate 1 Tim 2:5
Anyone who is in the communion of saints is in union and may pray and make intercession for one another! Rev 5:8
All graces come by Jesus Christ Jn 1:16-17 and Jesus came thru Mary,
matt 1:23 so all graces come thru Mary!
Mary is full of grace the throne of divine grace! Heb 4:16

Divine praises

All generations shall call me blessed!
Lk 1:48

Blessed be the great Mother of God, Mary most Holy.
Blessed be her Holy and Immaculate Conception.
Blessed be her Glorious Assumption.
Blessed be the name of Mary, ever Virgin and Mother.

Blessed be God in His Angels and in His Saints. Amen.

Praise of Mary & the saints ends in God!
All merits, graces, and virtues of Mary come from God & Christ!

1 Corinthians 4:7
For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

2 Thessalonians 1:10
When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe…

No one believed more than Mary! Lk 1:45

Co-redemptrix
Eve a Virgin by the communication of a fallen angel cooperated in the fall of man, the first Adam, gen 3 and it is fitting that Mary a Virgin by the communication of a good angel should cooperate in the redemption of man, the new Adam! Lk 1:28-38

Advocate
Mary help of Christians, pray for us!
Mary is the advocate of Christians because she is our spiritual mother. Jn 19:26-27 rev 12:17
Her intercession is great charity, for even before she is asked she sees a need and fills it. John 2:3 they have no wine, and Christ honors his mother, and never refuses her prayers, and because of her powerful intercession the newlyweds were spared Shame, and His disciples believed. Jn 2:10-11


Old Testament type or example provided by God for our instruction!

Queen Esther

Queen Esther fair: est 2:7
Mary all fair: gen 3:15 Song of Solomon 4:12 Lk 1:28 rev 12:1

And the king loved Esther above all the women, and she obtained grace and favour in his sight more than all the virgins; est 2:17
And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
Lk 1:28 also Lk 1:30 1:42 1:45 1:48
Mary obtained grace and favor: Lk 1:28
Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Esther merits the graces of the king for the people. Est
Mary merits the graces we need but don’t deserve. Lk 1:30
Mother is the mother of our savior and our salvation! Lk 2:30 matt 1:21

They prayed to Esther to intercede for them before the king. As Mary intercedes for Christians before God.

Queen Esther found favor with the king: est 2:17
Mary found favor with God: Lk 1:30

Queen Esther saves her people interceding with the king: est 8:17
Mary provides the savior of the world!
Lk 2:10-11

Queen Esther receives half the kingdom!
Mary receives half the kingdom, Christ retains the kingdom of justice as just judge and Mary is the queen of grace & mercy! Hence the throne of grace is Mary’s throne! Heb 4:16
Depicted in genesis as the greater light that rules the day (those living in God’s will) and the lesser light that governs the night (those living in sin) Mary the mother of mercy and refuge of sinners!
Notice the sun is the source of all good and moon only reflects this goodness!
She directs all to Her divine son! Jn 2:5

Jalapeno peppers are hot; coffee is hot. So therefore, jalapenos are the same as coffee, right???

Mary was Jesus' mother who gave birth to Him and (along with Joseph) raised Him to adolescence. Nothing more, nothing less.

What is your need to elevate Mary to some totally non-Biblical status? I believe I know the answer (which you won't like) but I would like your personal response.

 

[for_his_glory]

Don’t confuse the Vatican with the church founded by Christ on Peter matt 16:18
Only Christ has authority to found a church all others are sects with no authority by the “tradition of men”

Right there in your statement you are admitting the Roman Catholic Church has no power or authority as this is not the true church of Christ as they preach a different gospel from what Christ taught. You can't wiggle out of something that you just proclaimed to be true.

 

[Bible]

the ROCK is God not peter - you have given peter God's place - what is the word used for replacing God with man?

Christ builds the church on Peter and the apostles eph 2:20




How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?


also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22
Matt 16:18
Matt 28:19
Jn 20:21-23
Eph 2:20
Matt 23

 

[jaybo]

I agree with the first two statements.

On the third one, Peter is not separate from the other Apostles as there is no one greater than the other. It just happens that Peter's name was written first in the listing of the twelve. The successors are all the disciples of Christ since the day of Pentecost unto the coming of the Lord.

The Roman Catholic Church provided a conciliar definition of its biblical canon in 382 at the local Council of Rome based upon the Decretum Gelasianum.

1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

It's the living God that is the pillar and ground of the truth, not the Roman Catholic Church or any other denomination/non-denomination.

I think you got that backwards. If Christ is teaching then the church, being the body of Christ with He being the head of the body, had better listen and teach that of the doctrines of Christ, not the dogma of a man's church.

The only thing that I come against is the false teachings that come out of any church. If what one teaches does not line up with scripture then it is a false teaching.

Great post! Especially "It's the living God that is the pillar and ground of the truth, not the Roman Catholic Church or any other denomination/non-denomination." and "The only thing that I come against is the false teachings that come out of any church. If what one teaches does not line up with scripture then it is a false teaching."

Sola scriptura!

 

[jaybo]

Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!

Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!

Peter is head of the church!

Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)

Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.

Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father

Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 15:7

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns

ONLY TO PETER DID CHRIST SAY “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, because you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but on man’s.”

 

[Bible]

you have no proof of that - all the scripture you quote talks of Messiah not peter

It’s all about christ
He is God savior mediator
He is the founder of the new covenant church
It is his church
I know it’s hard for a man who is used to protests disobedience

 

[Bible]

Sorry

know it’s hard for a man who is used to protests disobedience and rebellion in chaos to under that God establishes peace and order from obedience and faithfulness to hierarchical authority

 

[jaybo]

No not at all what I’m saying
A true and valid pope cannot teach error Jn 16:13 but an invalid imposter or many could

John 16:13-15, "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. For he will not speak on his own authority, but will speak whatever he hears, and will tell you what is to come. He will glorify me, because he will receive from me what is mine and will tell it to you. Everything that the Father has is mine; that is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what is mine and will tell it to you."

This doesn't apply to "a true and valid pope" as it was written to all who believe. There is no mention of the Pope here or anywhere else in the Bible!

 

[for_his_glory]

Lk 1: 28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.

adding words to scripture again. Mary was highly favored of the Lord just like Noah who was also faithful to the Lord was highly favored.

Luke 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.