[__ Science __ ] Environmental Rights (and Wrongs).

[2ndRateMind]

Many people think the environment is in crisis. Should we, therefore, assign rights to the environment to protect it? Or, has God already assigned such rights, and all we need to do is work out what they are?

Best wishes to all. 2RM.

 

[Milk-Drops]

What are arguments in favor of giving the environment rights?

 

[WIP]

We, like every other creature on this earth, exist and therefore we impact our environment. There is only one way for us to not impact the environment and that is to not exist. The question is, are we all - each and every one of us - exercising good stewardship of our environment or do we just consume without regard for the consequences? Is our own personal comfort, amusement, and desires given a higher priority?

 

[jasonc]

We, like every other creature on this earth, exist and therefore we impact our environment. There is only one way for us to not impact the environment and that is to not exist. The question is, are we all - each and every one of us - exercising good stewardship of our environment or do we just consume without regard for the consequences? Is our own personal comfort, amusement, and desires given a higher priority?

The government ,and I can use photography with stories prior to them taken.the rivers they killed .is the worse offender .rivers I have crossed,Been in and never knew where that clear .

Kiwidan would relish the river life accounts

 

[jasonc]

Facebook

www.facebook.com

 

[jasonc]

If y'all can't see it,I will at a later time copy the text .

 

[WIP]

The government ,and I can use photography with stories prior to them taken.the rivers they killed .is the worse offender .rivers I have crossed,Been in and never knew where that clear .

Kiwidan would relish the river life accounts

It's not about who the worst offender is. We all contribute. 350,000,000 of us is quite a huge impact. We must remember too indirectly that we are the government in this country and if we really cared we'd do a better job of making it known or removing those who do not. The fact is, as a society we don't care and our government is a reflection of that. We care more about our jobs, our incomes, our desires, etc.

 

[jasonc]

It's not about who the worst offender is. We all contribute. 350,000,000 of us is quite a huge impact. We must remember too indirectly that we are the government in this country and if we really cared we'd do a better job of making it known or removing those who do not. The fact is, as a society we don't care and our government is a reflection of that. We care more about our jobs, our incomes, our desires, etc.

I must disagree,where I live once marsh,accounts recall that it was beautiful and also wildlife abounded .

Who gets regulate what you do ?
Me?
Farming ,yes farming is why my county is a marsh no more .

 

[WIP]

I must disagree,where I live once marsh,accounts recall that it was beautiful and also wildlife abounded .

Who gets regulate what you do ?
Me?
Farming ,yes farming is why my county is a marsh no more .

In a similar line of thought, how many wildlife sanctuaries such as your marsh have been destroyed by urbanization, farming, home owners, transportation, businesses, etc.? Here in MN, according to the DNR, at the time of the Public Land Survey (1847-1908), Minnesota had 18 million acres of prairie. Today only a little over 1 percent of native prairie remains.

We are not immune to the responsibility and it will take a complete change of attitude to affect positive change. We sit on our hands and change nothing and expect government to tell us what we must do. Are we that naive?

I think about my own local Lake Osakis. Like many lakes throughout the country, the water quality is somewhat less than desired. The fishery is only a shadow of what it once was due to poorly managed over-harvest and pollution. It was only in the last couple decades that some things have been done to improve the lake's ecosystem and it got a boost from nature itself with the introduction of the invasive zebra mussels. The pollution came from a few sources like farm nutrient runoff, city storm sewer pouring into the lake, and home owners dumping raw sewage into the lake.

 

[jasonc]

In a similar line of thought, how many wildlife sanctuaries such as your marsh have been destroyed by urbanization, farming, home owners, transportation, businesses, etc.? Here in MN, according to the DNR, at the time of the Public Land Survey (1847-1908), Minnesota had 18 million acres of prairie. Today only a little over 1 percent of native prairie remains.

We are not immune to the responsibility and it will take a complete change of attitude to affect positive change. We sit on our hands and change nothing and expect government to tell us what we must do. Are we that naive?

I think about my own local Lake Osakis. Like many lakes throughout the country, the water quality is somewhat less than desired. The fishery is only a shadow of what it once was due to poorly managed over-harvest and pollution. It was only in the last couple decades that some things have been done to improve the lake's ecosystem and it got a boost from nature itself with the introduction of the invasive zebra mussels. The pollution came from a few sources like farm nutrient runoff, city storm sewer pouring into the lake, and home owners dumping raw sewage into the lake.

My point unless man is God and can be ominopent and create energy and resources the earth will always be affected negatively.

Unless we simply decree one child ,minimal homes ,what limited fun we can have.

Use of the afformientioned river meant destroying it by dredging it as in some parts it was unavigatible.ie to narrow,waterfalls and rapids .

 

[WIP]

My point unless man is God and can be ominopent and create energy and resources the earth will always be affected negatively.

Unless we simply decree one child ,minimal homes ,what limited fun we can have.

Use of the afformientioned river meant destroying it by dredging it as in some parts it was unavigatible.ie to narrow,waterfalls and rapids .

No argument here.

 

[jasonc]

No argument here.

I get your point . I walk literally areas I photo or just posted about .I recall the stories as I go.so and so died here,he did this .owned that farm .

 

[jaybo]

Aside from a water shortage New Mexico is in pretty good shape. One of the reasons is that a lot of land is government-owned: regulated and managed by the state or the Feds.

 

[Corn Pop]

Humans are suppose to be the caretakers of the earth. It doesn't seem to be going very well.

If I owned a company and seen my label littered everywhere from consumers I would feel like it's a serious issue that needs attention. Its not a good look for a product when it's advertising is litter everywhere and in the waterways and beaches and ocean.

In my opinion if your label is on litter and it's copyright then you own it.

 

[jasonc]

Humans are suppose to be the caretakers of the earth. It doesn't seem to be going very well.

If I owned a company and seen my label littered everywhere from consumers I would feel like it's a serious issue that needs attention. Its not a good look for a product when it's advertising is litter everywhere and in the waterways and ocean.

In my opinion of your label is on it and it's copyright then you own it.

You can't make people throw things in the trash ,do you seriously expect cops to patrol streets looking for those litter ,btw the homeless and drugg addicts are the worse .

I'm not for littering but cops use traffic laws and these minor offenses to catch the big offenders .

I had them tell me . A judge abs cop have to live near and do business with those they fine.

An account posted about the river mentions local who killed the manatee for food and didn't waste the beast ,all of it was used . Versus the Yankees who did often call the law on the poor cracker who needed a meal .the judges here knew this and tossed the case out .Yankees ruined the lagoon by buying our riverside land and clearing to put up a motel,big house for and unatural view .locals didn't do that and cleared paths to the beach and fished and hunted the islands areas and left it as it was.

There are accounts opposite of that and I would have to reread the first federal park service accounts as one is on my county

 

[Corn Pop]

You can't make people throw things in the trash ,do you seriously expect cops to patrol streets looking for those litter ,btw the homeless and drugg addicts are the worse .

I'm not for littering but cops use traffic laws and these minor offenses to catch the big offenders .

I had them tell me . A judge abs cop have to live near and do business with those they fine.

An account posted about the river mentions local who killed the manatee for food and didn't waste the beast ,all of it was used . Versus the Yankees who did often call the law on the poor cracker who needed a meal .the judges here knew this and tossed the case out .Yankees ruined the lagoon by buying our riverside land and clearing to put up a motel,big house for and unatural view .locals didn't do that and cleared paths to the beach and fished and hunted the islands areas and left it as it was.

There are accounts opposite of that and I would have to reread the first federal park service accounts as one is on my county

I agree with you that you cannot make people throw things in the trash so products sold to consumers should always be as environmentally friendly as possible.

 

[jasonc]

I agree with you that you cannot make people throw things in the trash so products sold to consumers should always be as environmentally friendly as possible.

That is a grey area. I'm a bit skeptical on that as I remember

The milk man who required your old bottles or you got charged
The glass bottles of sodas where by you got paid to recycle .

Paper ,news paper used as sandwich wrappers .

I should create a thread on how the oil industry pushed plastic recycling and knew it wasnt feasible then . They knew it then .how many are these green things like that ?

 

[Corn Pop]

You can't make people throw things in the trash ,do you seriously expect cops to patrol streets looking for those litter ,btw the homeless and drugg addicts are the worse .

I'm not for littering but cops use traffic laws and these minor offenses to catch the big offenders .

I had them tell me . A judge abs cop have to live near and do business with those they fine.

An account posted about the river mentions local who killed the manatee for food and didn't waste the beast ,all of it was used . Versus the Yankees who did often call the law on the poor cracker who needed a meal .the judges here knew this and tossed the case out .Yankees ruined the lagoon by buying our riverside land and clearing to put up a motel,big house for and unatural view .locals didn't do that and cleared paths to the beach and fished and hunted the islands areas and left it as it was.

There are accounts opposite of that and I would have to reread the first federal park service accounts as one is on my county

I always found it amazing how my country claims it's great image of being clean and green. I mean when I was working on fruit farms I refused to spray Hicane even O got my chem spray cert, you might know what that is, hydrogen cyaminide, it's banned in basically every country on the world. No way I'm going near that stuff even wearing a suit and respirator.

And the country dumps tonnes of highly toxic 1080 for pest control, that's a synthetic form of sodium fluoroacetate, banned basically everywhere in the world. And what I find amazing is it's banned in the USA yet it's purchased from the USA. I mean dang dude.

 

[jasonc]

I always found it amazing how my country claims it's great image of being clean and green. I mean when I was working on fruit farms I refused to spray Hicane even O got my chem spray cert, you might know what that is, hydrogen cyaminide, it's banned in basically every country on the world.

And the country dumps tonnes of highly toxic 1080 for pest control, that's a synthetic form of sodium fluoroacetate, banned basically everywhere in the world. And what I find amazing is it's banned in the USA yet it's purchased from the USA. I mean dang dude.

Many countries still use cfc 12 and some did so long after we banned it and finally banned it .

Something about cfl and it's production. And another far worse ozone depletion gas

 

[Corn Pop]

That is a grey area. I'm a bit skeptical on that as I remember

The milk man who required your old bottles or you got charged
The glass bottles of sodas where by you got paid to recycle .

Paper ,news paper used as sandwich wrappers .

I should create a thread on how the oil industry pushed plastic recycling and knew it wasnt feasible then . They knew it then .how many are these green things like that ?

I remember the milk man days in the 80s, the milk tokens and glass bottles. I think that was when full cream milk was actually full cream milk, when you peeled back the cap there was a thick cream layer, these days its plastic bottles and runny and tastes more like water.